Vikings Message Board.Com

Eli wrote: I believe adding two would give them eight. But is it a good stategy for rebuilding? Seems to me that rebuilding requires (by definition) a lot of new players, so giving up draft picks to move up and take a few stars would appear to run counter to that.

But they've drafted 19 players in the last two years so it's not as if they're sacrificing the ability to draft a lot of players in order to focus primarily on first rounders and coming away from the draft with less than the standard allotment of 7 players.

To put it another way, a team that made no moves and just used all of their picks would have come away with 6 players in the first 3 rounds of the last two drafts. The Vikings came away with 6 players in the first 3 rounds of the last two drafts too. They just had 5 first round picks and one third rounder instead of 2 players from each round.

In both drafts, they selected at least one player in each of the remaining rounds.

It seems like an excellent rebuilding strategy, assuming enough of the picks actually work out. Of course, that's an issue with any draft strategy...

I honestly hope we don't take one until the third
round I don't think there is much seperation between
the top rated guys and players that will be
available in the third round. I think we should
Look at the quy from Penn State as well .

I don't think any of the QBs in the draft are worthy of taking at 8. I just don't see any of these guys as anywhere close to sure things. They all have serious questions.

As badly as the Vikings need defensive help, I don't see how they can pass on defense with that pick. While the QBs are a crap shoot, they can almost certainly get a difference maker on defense there.

Mothman wrote: If they keep Ponder, they wouldn't necessarily have to put a rookie in as a backup either if they didn't feel he was ready.

And I think Moth mentions that Ponder is still a factor just to irritate me.

majorm wrote:I don't think any of the QBs in the draft are worthy of taking at 8. I just don't see any of these guys as anywhere close to sure things. They all have serious questions.

As badly as the Vikings need defensive help, I don't see how they can pass on defense with that pick. While the QBs are a crap shoot, they can almost certainly get a difference maker on defense there.
And I think Moth mentions that Ponder is still a factor just to irritate me.

If they keep Ponder he will easily beat out Cassell in a fair competition. (ducks for cover)

majorm wrote:And I think Moth mentions that Ponder is still a factor just to irritate me.

LOL! No, trust me that's just a side effect.

GBFavreFan wrote: So you think any of the teams that draft Manziel, Teddy, or Bortles in picks 1-7 are stupid? Boy I wish this forum had a wager function, I'd love to bet u on that. Where do you think QBs come from, other than the draft. Like 95%+ of the past 10 Super Bowl participant QBs were all drafted by those teams and all came from different years. Every draft produces at least 1 and sometimes several franchise guys, so you're saying this group has 0?

So all the media types who tout these guys are all fools, even though they also touted Luck, RG3, Tannehill, Newton the same exact way? If you said maybe only 1-2 of these QBs will pan out that's one thing, but to say nobody in the 2014 draft is worth taking in the 1st 8 picks? most are calling this one of the deeper QB drafts in memory, yet you are calling this so weak they aren't even worth of a top 10 pick? I'd love to know the reasoning behind how 2014 of all years is suddenly EMPTY of franchise QBs, or maybe you're just way into making bold statements, I don't know ...

Drafts aren't guaranteed to have even one good QB in the class.

http://nfl.si.com/2011/12/14/rememberin ... b-classes/

Still, 2007 deserves a spot here, if for no other reason than that JaMarcus Russell was the top pick. The Browns then took Brady Quinn 21 spots later — and at least he’s still in the league. Kevin Kolb may still bring some respectability to this class, but as it stands right now, its leading passer is Trent Edwards (6,019 yards).

However, you're right in that it doesn't happen on a regular basis. There are generally at least one or two good QBs that come out of a given class.

This is actually easy to answer. If one of the top three QB's drop to 8 I can see the Vikings taking him. IF on the other hand all three top QB's are already off the board I can see the Vikings going defense or trading back. It is all going to depend on how the first 7 picks go. I don't see them trading up to get a QB.

My guess? They end up trading back, picking up a couple of extra picks and then take a QB in the second round.

GBFavreFan wrote: So you think any of the teams that draft Manziel, Teddy, or Bortles in picks 1-7 are stupid? Boy I wish this forum had a wager function, I'd love to bet u on that. Where do you think QBs come from, other than the draft. Like 95%+ of the past 10 Super Bowl participant QBs were all drafted by those teams and all came from different years. Every draft produces at least 1 and sometimes several franchise guys, so you're saying this group has 0?

I don't think he's saying any team that drafts a QB in the top 7 of this draft is stupid, just that they'd be taking a risk he doesn't consider worth taking and that none of the QBs in this class justify a pick that high. You're right that QBs come from the draft and that most recent Super Bowl-winning QBs were drafted by the teams that won those games but they weren't all drafted in the first round.

Furthermore, it's inaccurate to say that every draft produces at least 1 and sometimes several franchise quarterbacks, although to some extent, I suppose that depends on how we choose to define "franchise quarterback".

I realize it's early but who do you think is likely to emerge as a franchise QB from last year's draft? Manuel? Smith? Glennon?

Bradford looks like the only one from the 2010 draft and he's debatable. The 2007 draft definitely didn't produce one and neither did the 2002 draft. If the 2006 draft did, it's Cutler who, again, is debatable.

This draft may produce one or more franchise QBs or it may not produce any. I think it's possible that a few of the QBs available will prove worthy of a top 10 pick but I sure couldn't say which ones will be worth a choice that high. If there's a future Super Bowl-winning QB in this draft, he could just as easily come out of the late first, second or third round as the early first.

GBFavreFan wrote: So you think any of the teams that draft Manziel, Teddy, or Bortles in picks 1-7 are stupid? Boy I wish this forum had a wager function, I'd love to bet u on that. Where do you think QBs come from, other than the draft. Like 95%+ of the past 10 Super Bowl participant QBs were all drafted by those teams and all came from different years. Every draft produces at least 1 and sometimes several franchise guys, so you're saying this group has 0?

So all the media types who tout these guys are all fools, even though they also touted Luck, RG3, Tannehill, Newton the same exact way? If you said maybe only 1-2 of these QBs will pan out that's one thing, but to say nobody in the 2014 draft is worth taking in the 1st 8 picks? most are calling this one of the deeper QB drafts in memory, yet you are calling this so weak they aren't even worth of a top 10 pick? I'd love to know the reasoning behind how 2014 of all years is suddenly EMPTY of franchise QBs, or maybe you're just way into making bold statements, I don't know ...

Majorm might be right or wrong but it does happen that a vast majority of the QB's are not franchise guys or in the end not worth a top 8 pick. Personally I'm extremely skeptical about this draft class. Now sure I'd take Teddy or Manziel at #8 if they ranked that way on my board after the extensive research GM's do but deep down in my head I know it's an extremely big risk. I'm just that desperate at the QB position to take a swing.

2010 - Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen, Colt Mccoy, and Michael Kafka were the first 5 QB's taken. Now other than Bradford, no one spent a top 8 pick on those guys but those are the top 5 QB's taken and they all sucked, not a franchise player in the bunch. Maybe you can count bradford but it's 4 years in and if I'm a rams fan do I really think he's the answer?!

2011 - Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, and Andy Dalton were the first 5 QB's taken. Other than Cam, they're all complete busts. The thing is, I don't think Bridgewater or Manziel are on the same prospect level of Cam Newton and I see a lot more Gabberts in this draft than not.

I have not seen a single analyst or talking head say Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel are on the same level as Andrew Luck and RG3. The thing with analyst's and draft guru's is that "someone" has to be their #1 QB. But that doesn't mean just because he's #1 on their QB draft board that they compare to actually good prospects like Luck. This draft might be deep in that there are a lot of really average guys available with a some potential AND flaws, but the same thing could be said about 2011. We had Cam and Locker and Gabbert, and even some second teir guys like Ponder and Dalton! Wow it's deep!

I would put more money on not a single franchise / superbowl winning QB coming out of this draft than 1 or more, that's for sure.

Adrianpeterson28mvp wrote: In that case I'd much rather take Barr at #8 (or Mack if he falls) and then use some of our ammo (we have two thirds) to trade back up into the 1st and grab Manziel. I'd say that'd put us in much better shape. The only other holes we'd have to address is Safety and Guard, which we'd only be looking to upgrade at that point.

+1

Adrianpeterson28mvp wrote: In that case I'd much rather take Barr at #8 (or Mack if he falls) and then use some of our ammo (we have two thirds) to trade back up into the 1st and grab Manziel. I'd say that'd put us in much better shape. The only other holes we'd have to address is Safety and Guard, which we'd only be looking to upgrade at that point.

I wouldn't consider LB or CB as set at that point either.

Adrianpeterson28mvp wrote:Getting 2-3 bonafide first round prospects has worked quite well in the past couple of years (Smith, Khalil, Patterson, Rhodes, Floyd is kinda pending) but when we stick with these second round prospects we end up with people like Chris Cook and Tyrell Johnson.

Past failure isn't necessarily indicative of future failure, especially with a new regime. I'm not saying it won't work, but there are so many variables to consider. I like the idea of a Barr-Manziel first-round at face value, but we also have a lot of holes elsewhere. I'm not sure packaging a lot of mid to late-round picks several seasons in a row is a good idea when you have a lot of holes and constantly need depth. It's a matter of how the Vikings grade players, having the requisite picks and finding a trade partner. There's more to it than quality vs. quantity. And what if guys like Smith or Patterson end up "busts"? You really have to be confident in your scouting (or a savvy GM to constantly replenish to have a surplus of picks) to trade picks to move up. It's quite a complex dance. The more I think about it, the more my head spins. I wonder just how many scenarios or mock drafts of their own each team runs.

Dmizzle wrote:Who do you wish the vikings get in the first round? And I'm not speaking realistically, even they are projected to be selected before #8?

(I figure it would sense not to start a new thread and keep it here since its somewhat a similar topic.)

Mosely in the 1st and who ever is highest on their board in the 2nd or 3rd rnd. But that's if they would be willing to draft another QB next season.