Sam Bradford's a Viking

[Jordysghost]

We watch the games. That's where we come up with it.

In my opinion, people put too much emphasis on quarterback stats. Cutler and Stafford have great stats, but their teams ALWAYS underachieve. You don't get extra votes for big victories, like in college.

Brad Johnson, and Teddy to a lesser degree (because he's only had two years) manage to keep important drives alive late in the game. There's a lot of times where two first downs are actually more valuable than a TD. Johnson clearly understood that IMHO.

No, because there isn't actually anything tangible suggesting Teddy is a proven winner, who is even as good (let alone better) at winning games then Cutler or Stafford, nothing at all, that is your wishful thinking and not much else. Anyone who actually watches the games subjectively would know that being the 31st passing O in the league doesn't 'Win games', Teddys winning season was what it was because of AD and the Defense.

Producing mediocrity doesn't help your team win games, where in the hell are you getting that Bridgewater has been some proven winner who has been great in the clutch?

Its like saying Dilfer was better at 'winning games' then Marino, it is utterly ridiculous, you would have been better of last year with Cutler or Staffords production, and you would have won more games because of it, and there is nothing outside of homeristic delusion would imply otherwise.

[Jordysghost]

LOL, yes, somehow Smith was All Pro.....in 2012!!!!!!!! And he's been bad ever since.. He is simply NOT a good RT. But I will grant you, he's better than Clemmings.

Berger is a year OLDER.

Look, I hope you are right. But to me, this OL screams TRAIN WRECK. I don't care which OG position Fusco plays, he is just plain BAD. Smith has been bad for several years. Berger is 34. Boone is very good. Kalil, another train wreck

this OL is a total unmitigated disaster. It's an embarrassment to the franchise and Slicky Ricky should be ashamed of himself

I honestly feel bad for Bradford, he really hasn't gotten a fair shake in the NFL, and now its getting worse with this disgrace of an OL on a terrible franchise to boot.

Sorry, I love the Vikings but what I say is true and everyone knows it

This isn't the worst O line Bradford played with.

[Norv Zimmer]

LOL, yes, somehow Smith was All Pro.....in 2012!!!!!!!! And he's been bad ever since.. He is simply NOT a good RT. But I will grant you, he's better than Clemmings.

Berger is a year OLDER.

Look, I hope you are right. But to me, this OL screams TRAIN WRECK. I don't care which OG position Fusco plays, he is just plain BAD. Smith has been bad for several years. Berger is 34. Boone is very good. Kalil, another train wreck

this OL is a total unmitigated disaster. It's an embarrassment to the franchise and Slicky Ricky should be ashamed of himself

I honestly feel bad for Bradford, he really hasn't gotten a fair shake in the NFL, and now its getting worse with this disgrace of an OL on a terrible franchise to boot.

Sorry, I love the Vikings but what I say is true and everyone knows it

Seriously, you don't sound like a vikindsu fan. Maybe you should find another team or another sport to be a "fan" of.
Terrible franchise???? GTFO of here.

[Mothman]

We watch the games. That's where we come up with it.

In my opinion, people put too much emphasis on quarterback stats. Cutler and Stafford have great stats, but their teams ALWAYS underachieve. You don't get extra votes for big victories, like in college.

That last sentence is true but I think people put too much emphasis on intangible qualities often attributed to under-producing QBs like Bridgewater. We repeatedly hear that he "knows how to win" or that the plays he doesn't make (ie: big mistakes) are one of the things that makes him so good. There's certainly merit to avoiding big mistakes and leadership from the QB position matters a great deal. However, "knowing how to win" is largely a consequence of team play. It's a lot easier for Bridgewater to be a "winner" when Adrian Peterson leads the league in rushing and the Vikings defense allows an average of about 18 ppg. Put his level of QB play on a team with a defense like the 2011 Vikings and suddenly, he would no longer "know how to win". Put his production on one of those underachieving Lions or Bears teams and they'd be achieving even less.

I'm not saying some of the qualities people have most embraced about Bridgewater have no importance at all, simply that they get overrated. When the so-called "fantasy stats" aren't there, I think it becomes easy to overemphasize the importance of the little things because people want to believe in the starter. For example...

Brad Johnson, and Teddy to a lesser degree (because he's only had two years) manage to keep important drives alive late in the game. There's a lot of times where two first downs are actually more valuable than a TD. Johnson clearly understood that IMHO.

There are rarely times when 2 first downs are more important than a TD. Extending a lead by 6-8 points late in a game (or at pretty much any point in a game) is almost always better than picking up two first downs. There are probably rare exceptions (like when the defense is exhausted and needs a little time on the bench) but overall, scoring is better than gaining 2 first downs because scoring is the key to winning. That's also why dismissing "fantasy stats" gets ridiculous. Sure, they don't tell the whole story of a game but the primary mission of the offense is to score points. Score enough and first downs late in the game become inconsequential because the game is out of reach.

[Jordysghost]

Its funny to hear someone refer to tangible, on field production as 'fantasy stats' and then go on to claim that the 14-9 td to int ratio QB who engineered the 31st ranked passing O in the league 'Knows how to win'. Talk about fantasy.

[Mothman]

No, because there isn't actually anything tangible suggesting Teddy is a proven winner, who is even as good (let alone better) at winning games then Cutler or Stafford, nothing at all, that is your wishful thinking and not much else. Anyone who actually watches the games subjectively would know that being the 31st passing O in the league doesn't 'Win games', Teddys winning season was what it was because of AD and the Defense.

Exactly. The Vikings reached the postseason last year for essentially the same reason they reached the playoffs in 2012: their RB led the league in rushing and their defense played well. The 2015 defense was better than the 2012 defense and Peterson was better in 2012 than last year but the basic dynamic was the same.

The Vikes lost most of the games last year in which they were out-rushed and they were blown out 3 times when defenses managed to take Peterson away and forced the Vikes to try to beat them through the air.

If they can restore more balance on offense and field a much more productive passing game, they should be a better team for it.

[Mothman]

I watched a bunch of Bradford from his best three years and this is where I stand

Bradford is nowhere near the escape artist that teddy is.

I see pitches to Adrian Peterson more this year(or pulling guard blocks)

Bradford is a true pocket passer and throws a much more accurate ball than Teddy.

Bradford can throw across his body with acceptable risk.

Bradford can hit receivers on the run without them stopping and waiting for the ball.

Bradford will need a collapsing pocket to be effective

We will need screen passes to keep pressure off Bradford

Bradford does not handle A gap blitzes well.

Good post! Thanks for the info.

I assume you meant he'll need a pocket that doesn't collapse to be effective.

I'm under the impression Bradford has done a lot of dinking and dunking over the course of his pro career. However, I know he's accurate and I know he can throw downfield so I'm hoping some of that dinking and dunking has been system-related and doesn't indicate an overly active instinct to check down. I really feel the Vikes need to open up their offense and I hope Bradford will show the mentality necessary to do that.

[Jordysghost]

Youth isn't an excuse. It's what happens when you're young. Do people not understand that QBs can develop? Am I nuts? What is the great Aaron Rodgers had to start out of the gate? It's not absurd to believe one can see Teddy developing and that as a young (there's that excuse again!) QB in a run-first system behind an embarrassment of an o-line that he wasn't going to put up crazy numbers anyway!

I have no idea what Manziel has to do with anything. I think most of our miscommunication is you're seeing and evaluating Teddy as a veteran on a balanced or pass-dominant offense, and not a guy going into his third season on a run-first team.

There is a difference between 'Not putting up crazy numbers', and just playing wildly mediocre.

What does the O not being pass dominant have to do with anything? Its harder to do that as a QB then play in a run first O and manage football games, I shutter to think of what would happen with Bridgewater if he was put into pass first O. It isn't about quantity to me, but Bridgewater wasn't wildly efficient by any means.

Bradford to this point has simply proven to be capable of much more as a player, Bridgewater is young indeed, and certainly 'could' develop, but he certainly could not as well, with that in mind, I don't feel it very appropriate to label the season 'doomed' with Bradford, considering Bridgewater would have had to make a very considerable leap in production to produce at Bradford's level. (And imo, I didn't see very much to make it seem like that was going to happen.)

[dead_poet]

How the trade went down:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/09/04/sam- ... eagles-nfl

Spielman: Zim [head coach Mike Zimmer] called off practice and had a team meeting, and then I called all our scouts together, and [assistant GM] George Paton, into a meeting. I told them what happened. Besides all their jaws dropping to the floor and being sick to your stomach, absolutely sick to your stomach … we had a job to do. I said to them: ‘This is what we’re getting paid to do, finding the best solution out of the worst-case scenario. And that’s what we’re going to do here.’ I got up on the white board and we sorted out the scenarios—guys on the street we might want, guys who might get cut, guys on teams that might have enough depth that they’d consider dealing one. Names and options. Then we all got to work watching tape and I started making calls. To be honest, there was no solution. No good solution.

[Mothman]

How the trade went down:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/09/04/sam- ... eagles-nfl

Thanks for the link. That was a fascinating read.

I don't always agree with Spielman's choices but he's had some impressive moments as Vikings GM. I feel he really handled this crisis situation well and came through for the team in an extraordinarily difficult situation. As he said in the article, now we just have to see how it plays out.

[Jordysghost]

Thanks for the link. That was a fascinating read.

I don't always agree with Spielman's choices but he's had some impressive moments as Vikings GM. I feel he really handled this crisis situation well and came through for the team in an extraordinarily difficult situation. As he said in the article, now we just have to see how it plays out.

I agree, of course the actual results are the most important part, but so far I think he made an absolutely magnificent move that I think will really benefit you guys.

[VikingPaul73]

Harris wasn't bad at RG last year.

I agree. Sorry, I was trying to say Fusco was bad at LG last year and I think he will continue to be bad at RG this year, despite returning to his natural position.

[dead_poet]

I agree. Sorry, I was trying to say Fusco was bad at LG last year and I think he will continue to be bad at RG this year, despite returning to his natural position.

He hasn't looked nearly as bad. He's also another year removed from the pec injury and presumably has his strength back. I would've preferred he battle with Harris for the job but I'm not nearly as worried about him at RG as I am about Smith at RT.

[Norv Zimmer]

I agree. Sorry, I was trying to say Fusco was bad at LG last year and I think he will continue to be bad at RG this year, despite returning to his natural position.

As said before you are wrong. PFF rated Fusco as one of the top right guards 2 years ago.

Again you can have your opinion just be ready to eat some crow for all the hating you are doing.

[DK Sweets]

There is a difference between 'Not putting up crazy numbers', and just playing wildly mediocre.

This is where I always get stuck with you. See, since 2009 you've had the benefit of having one of he best QBs in football. His GM designed his offense to have multiple great receivers and despite what you think about his O-line, his sacks have usually been because he was waiting to make a play, not because his line was practically useless 30% of the time.

You have been conditioned to believe that statistics tell the whole story. You seemingly have little foundation for putting statistics into perspective, because for years you have had the best QB in the league and the numbers have said so as well. But truly, you have no idea what it's like to have a QB trying to cover the faults of an atrocious O-line, a WR corps where a 5th round rookie is the leader, and a RB who struggles with receiving and pass protection.

For some of us, it feels like you struggle to contextualize, and it's increasingly frustrating.

For what it's worth, I don't know if I agree or disagree with you that Bradford can at least be as good as Bridgewater would have been this year, but I find your argument to be poopie.