Vikings OL and GM discussion

[jackal]

Most definitely, Andre Smith has me concerned. I was really hoping Load could recover.

Smith IMO had the worst performances with the ones... a few plays might not have been his fault but the
majority of the QB pressures and hits came from his side.

[halfgiz]

Anyway, my point is they have bigger problems along the line than Kalil and that's been true for the majority of the last 4 seasons yet he's probably the lineman who receives the most criticism.

When your making 2-3 times as much as the rest of the line I guess you better expect criticism
2014 he had a bad year...

[Mothman]

When your making 2-3 times as much as the rest of the line I guess you better expect criticism
2014 he had a bad year...

Sure, he did and first round picks are judged harshly anyway when they don't live up to high expectations.

It's fair to criticize him. I just find irony in the degree of criticism. The right tackle spot seems like a much bigger concern to me and left guard has been a big issue for 4 or 5 years now (hopefully, Boone will solve that problem for a while). Kalil makes big money and he's the high profile player but they've had bigger problems on that line. He's probably even integral to it's chances of success this season because I don't know if they have a tackle behind him who could play the position nearly as well.

[VikingPaul73]

Sure, he did and first round picks are judged harshly anyway when they don't live up to high expectations.

It's fair to criticize him. I just find irony in the degree of criticism. The right tackle spot seems like a much bigger concern to me and left guard has been a big issue for 4 or 5 years now (hopefully, Boone will solve that problem for a while). Kalil makes big money and he's the high profile player but they've had bigger problems on that line. He's probably even integral to it's chances of success this season because I don't know if they have a tackle behind him who could play the position nearly as well.

I agree in "absolute" terms..but in my humble opinion in the salary cap era you need to judge based on value. Yes, I think Kalil is better than Smith but is he 3-4x better, because that's what he's getting paid?? You could have the best LT in history but if he took up 99% of your cap that's poor value and the team would be terrible.

I know that's a ridiculous example but just trying to illustrate a point. Without going through the salary list of all LTs in the NFL, just off the cuff I'd say the Vikings are paying roughly double for Kalil's NFL value. That's $5.5 million that could have been used for a very good RG.

It's just very frustrating that the Vikings OL total salary is near the top of the NFL, but their performance is near the bottom. I think if the OL performance was commensurate with it's salary, then the Vikings would be legit Super Bowl contenders this year. As it stands, this terrible OL will bring them down to slightly above average.

[dead_poet]

I agree in "absolute" terms..but in my humble opinion in the salary cap era you need to judge based on value. Yes, I think Kalil is better than Smith but is he 3-4x better, because that's what he's getting paid?? You could have the best LT in history but if he took up 99% of your cap that's poor value and the team would be terrible.

I know that's a ridiculous example but just trying to illustrate a point. Without going through the salary list of all LTs in the NFL, just off the cuff I'd say the Vikings are paying roughly double for Kalil's NFL value. That's $5.5 million that could have been used for a very good RG.

It's just very frustrating that the Vikings OL total salary is near the top of the NFL, but their performance is near the bottom. I think if the OL performance was commensurate with it's salary, then the Vikings would be legit Super Bowl contenders this year. As it stands, this terrible OL will bring them down to slightly above average.

As far as the cap goes, I think the front office did the right thing by essentially buying one more year of "well let's see" with Kalil with the 5th year option. The major problem I've seen with Kalil (when his knees are healthy) is the consistency. I was clear he was playing with awful knees in 2013-2014. Last year he was better, but still probably a below-average starting LT. I have to imagine that this is the end of the line for Kalil if he doesn't perform well. Regardless, if they want to re-sign him, it should be on their terms, on a team-friendly deal, where there is competition. He may try and shop himself elsewhere, which is fine by me. I'll be quite anxious to see what kind of contract he signs. Kalil (and AD) will be one of the biggest stories in 2016 (and into the offseason).

The other alternatives would've been far worse IMO, those being 1) cutting him, which would've likely opened Teddy up to even more problems than he's used to from the LT position and 2) signing him to a long-term deal (which would've committed even MORE cash to Kalil for a longer duration, having additional cap ramifications past this year. I will say that after seeing what Okung signed for, in hindsight I would've preferred the Vikings cut Kalil and signed him instead. Osemele would've been nice but he signed for major cash.

[mansquatch]

I think the Teddy shoulder flare up provided a lot of cover to this unit. The interior is looking the best it has looked since 2009. The Tackles are where it is ugly and to be honest, Kalil is probably not our biggest problem. Andre Smith doesn't look great (You get OL in FA on the cheap for a reason...) and TJ Clemmings on his best day is a hope he isn't as bad as his 2015 campaign. Not a happy situation over there if you are TB.

[chicagopurple]

As I predicted last year, Sully is cut and gone. A herniated disc is NOT compatible with playing the OL. Loadholt, never able to come off torn achilles. How does the Vikes front office excuse their sad sack plan of depending on prayers and duct tape to keep together torn up and hopeless veterans for an OL? What do we really have now but a slap-dash OL that will probably get whatever bargain-basement QB we settle for killed in the first 3-4 games this year? Poor planning for the OL and back-up QB position are gonna be poison for 2016.

[halfgiz]

I think with the big cut upon us we really need to be looking at some of the line people getting cut.
The quality of our backups could almost be as big of a issue as our quarterback problem.

[chicagopurple]

Ya think Ziggy Wilf MIGHT just look at this mess and actually FINALLY pin some responsibility on Spielman for our lack of a OL and back up QB? Maybe??

[dead_poet]

Ya think Ziggy Wilf MIGHT just look at this mess and actually FINALLY pin some responsibility on Spielman for our lack of a OL and back up QB? Maybe??

Who helped us win the North last year?

Rick is safe. No GM is perfect. Name me a team and I'll tell you a GM that has a "mess" at more than one position group.

Rick isn't perfect (no GM is) but he's helped build one of the most talented young rosters in the league.

[PurpleMustReign]

Who helped us win the North last year?

Rick is safe. No GM is perfect. Name me a team and I'll tell you a GM that has a "mess" at more than one position group.

Rick isn't perfect (no GM is) but he's helped build one of the most talented young rosters in the league.

Seriously. Name a better GM in the last few years.

Cold is temporary. Purple Pride is forever.

[Mothman]

Who helped us win the North last year?

Rick is safe. No GM is perfect. Name me a team and I'll tell you a GM that has a "mess" at more than one position group.

Rick isn't perfect (no GM is) but he's helped build one of the most talented young rosters in the league.

It's great that the roster is talented (truly, I'm not being sarcastic) but the overall yield on the Spielman years is not impressive.

He's been with the team for the better part of a decade making important, personnel-related, roster-building decisions and the Vikings have exactly one playoff win to show for it, in the one season during that span when they had a good passing game.

He doesn't have to be perfect but I'm sure not satisfied with those results and before anybody tells me to be patient, I'll repeat: it's been almost a decade. The roster should be good at this point! When do we get to see the postseason wins?

[PurpleMustReign]

It's great that the roster is talented (truly, I'm not being sarcastic) but the overall yield on the Spielman years is not impressive.

He's been with the team for the better part of a decade making important, personnel-related, roster-building decisions and the Vikings have exactly one playoff win to show for it, in the one season during that span when they had a good passing game.

He doesn't have to be perfect but I'm sure not satisfied with those results and before anybody tells me to be patient, I'll repeat: it's been almost a decade. The roster should be good at this point! When do we get to see the postseason wins?

He was also not totally in charge when Chili was here, and has had to rebuild from that time. How many years has he been GM without that stupid TOA?

Cold is temporary. Purple Pride is forever.

[Mothman]

He was also not totally in charge when Chili was here, and has had to rebuild from that time.

I know and that excuse comes up practically every time Spielman is criticized but it's not like he was twiddling his thumbs during those years. Chili was fired 5 seasons ago.

People defend Spielman like he's presided over a long series of successes. He's not a bad GM by any means but is he a good enough GM? I think the jury is still out on that.

[VikingPaul73]

I know and that excuse comes up practically every time Spielman is criticized but it's not like he was twiddling his thumbs during those years. Chili was fired 5 seasons ago.

People defend Spielman like he's presided over a long series of successes. He's not a bad GM by any means but is he a good enough GM? I think the jury is still out on that.

And by the way, the Chili era was the only playoff win we've had in the last decade!!!! It's funny that the most success the Vikings have had in Rick's entire tenure is the period that Rick supporters always try to "blame" on the fact that he didn't have total GM power during this time. Weird. It's like the perception of a "good" roster with "excellent" depth is more important than the REALITY of results and an actual playoff win! It's baffling to me

1. Rick's tenure of a decade - 1 playoff win
2. Rick's GM tenure of 4 years - 0 playoff wins

there is always a lot of hype and potential.....and then a lot of excuses when things don't work out (as if no other teams in the NFL have injuries). Some teams are just better prepared for the injuries.