Vikings Message Board.Com

mansquatch wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:23 am Stump you are insulting him, but you are not providing any support for your case. That is just rude. It's a matter of opinion, nothing more. No need to be a jerk about it.

My opinion is that Wilson is in that top 10, but probably not the top 5 of QBs in the league. The reason is as PHP states, his passing ability is not in the same echelon as Brees, Brady, Rogers, or even Rothlisburger.

Ironically, I think the QB hierarchy is going to change. I suspect Ben will retire after this year. he is going to really miss Brown and probably won't want to take the abuse that will come with it. Brady is already showing his age as is Brees. Brady will have to face a season without Gronk and I suspect that might change his tune about playing until he is 45, but who knows. The media keep talking about a comeback season for Rogers, but that has been a refrain for the past three seasons, minus the results. Perhaps the coaching changes will help, but the physical aspects of his game are on the decline.

Who fills the void in their absence? Who is the hot young QB prospect? Mahomes I think is likely anointed, barring injury. After him every guy lacks both the resume and the consistency.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:55 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:10 am
And you are wrong about that. The numbers, wins, SB pedigree, everything points to him being an elite passer. There is 0 evidence that he is not. None.

You are essentially arguing the earth is flat here. It honestly is kind of embarrassing.

God you just dont know when to quit..... So I guess that must apply to anyone else that believes Wilson isnt an elite passer? Because again, I'm not the only one saying it. I guess there are more people than I thought that think the earth is flat lol

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:15 am

S197 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:10 pm

PFF's mock has him going before our pick. I think to Carolina. I don't think anyone thought Ragnow would be a 1st round pick last year and he went before our pick. I put Risner in the same category. Everyone talking about him and yet no one thinks he'll be drafted high.

I could be wrong, which would be great. Just a hunch.

That's a good point with Ragnow. I feel like Risner has cooled down a bit as of late. I honestly dont see him going before 18. I see him going in the first but not before 18. I read yesterday that Carolina and Houston are looking for a quality tackle and one if not both could end up trading up to draft one. Maybe OL goes quicker than we think. I will say that I am glad that we are more in the market for a guard than we are a tackle. Because tackle seems like a high priority for teams right now. I really think we take Ford or Fant at 18. I'm calling it.

Here is an updated list of who we have met with according to Walter Football:

Johnathan Abram, S, Mississippi State (COM)
Otaro Alaka, OLB, Texas A&M (WOR)
Calvin Anderson, OT, Texas (PRI)
Derrick Baity, CB, Kentucky (EW)
Cody Barton, OLB, Utah (EW)
Jackson Barton, OT, Utah (EW)
Andrew Beck^, FB/TE, Texas (EW, PRI)
Casey Bednarksi, K, Minnesota State (WOR)
Kendall Blanton, TE, Missouri (EW)
Blake Cashman, ILB, Minnesota (LOC)
L.J. Collier, DE/3-4DE, TCU (PRI)
Ryan Connelly, OLB, Wisconsin (PRI)
Nate Davis, OT, Charlotte (PRI)
Andre Dillard, OT, Washington State (PRI)
Noah Fant^, TE, Iowa (COM, PRI)
Nick Fitzgerald, QB, Mississippi State (PRI)
Cody Ford^, OT/G, Oklahoma (COM, PRI)
Lamont Gaillard^, G, Georgia (EW, COM)
Luke Gifford, ILB, Nebraska (PRI)
Donnell Greene, OT, Minnesota (LOC)
Robbie Grimsley, S, North Dakota State (LOC)
Terrill Hanks^, OLB, New Mexico State (PRO, PRI)
Amani Hooker, S, Iowa (PRI)
Tytus Howard, OT, Alabama State (PRI)
Jalen Hurd, WR, Baylor (PRI)
Isaiah Johnson, CB, Houston (PRI)
Michael Jordan, G/C, Ohio State (COM)
Chris Lindstrom, G, Boston College (COM)
Greg Little^, OT, Ole Miss (COM, PRI)
Josh Oliver, TE, San Jose State (PRI)
Charles Omenihu, DE, Texas (COM)
Devine Ozigbo^, RB, Nebraska (EW, PRI)
Trey Pipkins^, OT, Sioux Falls (EW, PRI)
Ryan Pope, OT, San Diego State (EW)
Dalton Risner, OT, Kansas State (COM)
Deebo Samuel, WR, South Carolina (SR)
Jeffery Simmons, DT/3-4DE, Mississippi State (PRI)
Jeff Smith, WR, Boston College (PRI)
Bunchy Stallings, G, Kentucky (EW)
Jace Sternberger, TE, Texas A&M (PRI)
Ty Summers, ILB, TCU (PRO)
Jordan Ta'amu, QB, Ole Miss (PRO)
Sione Takitaki, OLB, Brigham Young (EW)
Derrek Thomas, CB, Baylor (PRO)
Olisaemeka Udoh, OT, Elon (EW)
John Ursua, WR, Hawaii (PRI)
Brian Wallace, OT, Arkansas (EW)
Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama (COM)


Now I've followed this over the years because it gives you a direct look at who the team has met with. I will say, it is fairly accurate and will show a few of the guys we will draft. The things you want to look for with these are the following:

PRI- private visit (top 30 visit)
WOR- private workout
COM- combine meeting
PRO- pro day meeting/workout
^- has met with team at more than one event.

If you look at the guys that have had multiple meeting with us, the first round prospects are Cody Ford, Noah Fant and Greg Little. This usually adds up to who we are targeting in the first round barring someone falling. For example, in 2013, Shariff Floyd wasnt even on this list (but he was also suppose to go top 5). But guys like Waynes, Teddy, Barr, Rhodes, Treadwell, etc. have been on it. Some with multiple meetings. This is what I use when doing my mocks (not always) because it gives me a better idea of who we are targeting, especially in later rounds. I use multiple different sources as well as my own opinion of need, contracts, etc in these mocks. But this is why I'm really leaning towards us drafting Ford or Fant. We have obviously shown serious interest in them. Granted we also met with Jonah Williams, Jeffery Simmons, Dalton Risner, Chris Lindstrom, Amani Hooker, Andre Dillard, LJ Collier and Johnathan Abram for first round prospects. It's just we've been on those other 3 a little harder. It at least shows us what direction they are leaning. Which seems to be OL or TE.

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:51 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:55 am

God you just dont know when to quit..... So I guess that must apply to anyone else that believes Wilson isnt an elite passer? Because again, I'm not the only one saying it. I guess there are more people than I thought that think the earth is flat lol

You do know that Wilson is #2 ALL TIME in passer rating right? Add the fact that he's great as a mobile QB and he also has had a terrible OL for a long time. Hard buying your argument PHP. I mean, who cares if Wilson had a game where he only threw for 70 yds. He also had 50+ yds rushing, and won the game. I don't think you realize how much a mobile QB can open up an offense (particularly the run game). If you stick with your "pure passer" argument, I think there's stats that prove otherwise. But saying he's overrated, I'm not seeing that. I'd almost argue that he's under rated as a passer. As a complete QB, I don't think there's a better one out there.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:05 am

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:51 pm

You do know that Wilson is #2 ALL TIME in passer rating right? Add the fact that he's great as a mobile QB and he also has had a terrible OL for a long time. Hard buying your argument PHP. I mean, who cares if Wilson had a game where he only threw for 70 yds. He also had 50+ yds rushing, and won the game. I don't think you realize how much a mobile QB can open up an offense (particularly the run game). If you stick with your "pure passer" argument, I think there's stats that prove otherwise. But saying he's overrated, I'm not seeing that. I'd almost argue that he's under rated as a passer. As a complete QB, I don't think there's a better one out there.

I take Mahomes any day of the week over Wilson. Even after 1 year. Mahomes is hands down the best complete QB out there right now if you ask me. He's basically the young version of Aaron Rodgers. I dont see how Wilson even belongs in that conversation. The Chiefs are bound to win at least a few SBs with him barring anything crazy. Do you see the Seahawks winning another SB with Wilson? I dont. No less, Mahomes had a horrid defense and nearly got to the SB. He should have if Dee Ford wasnt a moron. Even with Seattle's defense dropping off the past few years, they were still miles better than Kansas City's. KC was the 31st total defense in the NFL. Wilson doesnt have that kind of impact on his team. He had the best running game in the NFL and a top 15 defense. And he couldnt get past the Cowboys. Mahomes had an average running game, Hill and Kelce and the 31st ranked defense. And should have been in the SB and possibly would have won it. To say Wilson is the best complete QB out there doesnt stack up. Mahomes blows him out of the water.

As for my argument, if you dont buy it that's fine. I know I'm not the only one that believes he's not an elite passer. But my thing is, I dont care that he rushed for 50 yards and Seattle won the game. That's not what I'm questioning. I'm not question his scrambling ability. I'm not questioning his ability to win. I'm questioning his ability as a pure passer. I didnt just say, Wilson is overrated and that's it. I said he's overrated as a PASSER. Nothing else.

Wilson ranked in the top three in accuracy percentage in five areas (31-35 yards, 36-40 yards, throws to the left, throws in clean pockets, and throws into tight windows). He was the most accurate deep passer throwing into clean pockets, being accurate on 66.7% of his passes there. He was also second in accuracy on throws to his left and into tight windows.

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:29 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:05 am

I take Mahomes any day of the week over Wilson. Even after 1 year. Mahomes is hands down the best complete QB out there right now if you ask me. He's basically the young version of Aaron Rodgers. I dont see how Wilson even belongs in that conversation. The Chiefs are bound to win at least a few SBs with him barring anything crazy. Do you see the Seahawks winning another SB with Wilson? I dont. No less, Mahomes had a horrid defense and nearly got to the SB. He should have if Dee Ford wasnt a moron. Even with Seattle's defense dropping off the past few years, they were still miles better than Kansas City's. KC was the 31st total defense in the NFL. Wilson doesnt have that kind of impact on his team. He had the best running game in the NFL and a top 15 defense. And he couldnt get past the Cowboys. Mahomes had an average running game, Hill and Kelce and the 31st ranked defense. And should have been in the SB and possibly would have won it. To say Wilson is the best complete QB out there doesnt stack up. Mahomes blows him out of the water.

As for my argument, if you dont buy it that's fine. I know I'm not the only one that believes he's not an elite passer. But my thing is, I dont care that he rushed for 50 yards and Seattle won the game. That's not what I'm questioning. I'm not question his scrambling ability. I'm not questioning his ability to win. I'm questioning his ability as a pure passer. I didnt just say, Wilson is overrated and that's it. I said he's overrated as a PASSER. Nothing else.

That's the only other player I would consider (Mahomes). But one good year isn't enough for me. Wilson has the experience and in crucial situations, I'll take that experience. To be honest, I can see Seattle being very dangerous in the playoffs if they add weapon or two on the offense. And saying all KC has is Kelce and Hill (don't forget Hunt) is like saying all the Vikings have is Diggs and Thielen. Who does Wilson have on his team?



Again, he's ranked #2 all time .. as a PASSER. I question your opinion because you have stated that SEA has a mess of an OL and yet here Wilson is, ranked #2 all time, and probably has had his best season as a passer in 2018.

Here's an analysis who had the best deep ball in 2018. Where did Wilson rank? #2.
The 2018-19 Deep Ball Project

Wilson ranked in the top three in accuracy percentage in five areas (31-35 yards, 36-40 yards, throws to the left, throws in clean pockets, and throws into tight windows). He was the most accurate deep passer throwing into clean pockets, being accurate on 66.7% of his passes there. He was also second in accuracy on throws to his left and into tight windows.

I know I won't convince you. Just wanted to add my 2 cents in the discussion. Back to the draft..

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:01 pm

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:29 pm

That's the only other player I would consider (Mahomes). But one good year isn't enough for me. Wilson has the experience and in crucial situations, I'll take that experience. To be honest, I can see Seattle being very dangerous in the playoffs if they add weapon or two on the offense. And saying all KC has is Kelce and Hill (don't forget Hunt) is like saying all the Vikings have is Diggs and Thielen. Who does Wilson have on his team?



Again, he's ranked #2 all time .. as a PASSER. I question your opinion because you have stated that SEA has a mess of an OL and yet here Wilson is, ranked #2 all time, and probably has had his best season as a passer in 2018.

Here's an analysis who had the best deep ball in 2018. Where did Wilson rank? #2.
The 2018-19 Deep Ball Project



I know I won't convince you. Just wanted to add my 2 cents in the discussion. Back to the draft..

At this point, deep down he knows he is wrong. If anything, Wilson is underrated as a passer, mostly because running QBs typically aren't great passers, and possibly something else that I don't want to get into on this forum.

WallytheVike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:58 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:01 pm

At this point, deep down he knows he is wrong. If anything, Wilson is underrated as a passer, mostly because running QBs typically aren't great passers, and possibly something else that I don't want to get into on this forum.

Well thank goodness for that. How about Wilson / Cousins. Who would you rather have?

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:01 pm

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:29 pm

That's the only other player I would consider (Mahomes). But one good year isn't enough for me. Wilson has the experience and in crucial situations, I'll take that experience. To be honest, I can see Seattle being very dangerous in the playoffs if they add weapon or two on the offense. And saying all KC has is Kelce and Hill (don't forget Hunt) is like saying all the Vikings have is Diggs and Thielen. Who does Wilson have on his team?



Again, he's ranked #2 all time .. as a PASSER. I question your opinion because you have stated that SEA has a mess of an OL and yet here Wilson is, ranked #2 all time, and probably has had his best season as a passer in 2018.

Here's an analysis who had the best deep ball in 2018. Where did Wilson rank? #2.
The 2018-19 Deep Ball Project



I know I won't convince you. Just wanted to add my 2 cents in the discussion. Back to the draft..

At this point, deep down he knows he is wrong. If anything, Wilson is underrated as a passer, mostly because running QBs typically aren't great passers, and possibly something else that I don't want to get into on this forum.

WallytheVike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:03 pm Watching the ESPN mock draft last night and Kiper picked for us. He took a Defensive Tackle I've never heard of before and then they spent all of about 5 seconds talking about him before moving on. What the heck did we do that guy? Someone must of pissed him off.

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:29 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:05 am

I take Mahomes any day of the week over Wilson. Even after 1 year. Mahomes is hands down the best complete QB out there right now if you ask me. He's basically the young version of Aaron Rodgers. I dont see how Wilson even belongs in that conversation. The Chiefs are bound to win at least a few SBs with him barring anything crazy. Do you see the Seahawks winning another SB with Wilson? I dont. No less, Mahomes had a horrid defense and nearly got to the SB. He should have if Dee Ford wasnt a moron. Even with Seattle's defense dropping off the past few years, they were still miles better than Kansas City's. KC was the 31st total defense in the NFL. Wilson doesnt have that kind of impact on his team. He had the best running game in the NFL and a top 15 defense. And he couldnt get past the Cowboys. Mahomes had an average running game, Hill and Kelce and the 31st ranked defense. And should have been in the SB and possibly would have won it. To say Wilson is the best complete QB out there doesnt stack up. Mahomes blows him out of the water.

As for my argument, if you dont buy it that's fine. I know I'm not the only one that believes he's not an elite passer. But my thing is, I dont care that he rushed for 50 yards and Seattle won the game. That's not what I'm questioning. I'm not question his scrambling ability. I'm not questioning his ability to win. I'm questioning his ability as a pure passer. I didnt just say, Wilson is overrated and that's it. I said he's overrated as a PASSER. Nothing else.

That's the only other player I would consider (Mahomes). But one good year isn't enough for me. Wilson has the experience and in crucial situations, I'll take that experience. To be honest, I can see Seattle being very dangerous in the playoffs if they add weapon or two on the offense. And saying all KC has is Kelce and Hill (don't forget Hunt) is like saying all the Vikings have is Diggs and Thielen. Who does Wilson have on his team?



Again, he's ranked #2 all time .. as a PASSER. I question your opinion because you have stated that SEA has a mess of an OL and yet here Wilson is, ranked #2 all time, and probably has had his best season as a passer in 2018.

Here's an analysis who had the best deep ball in 2018. Where did Wilson rank? #2.
The 2018-19 Deep Ball Project

Wilson ranked in the top three in accuracy percentage in five areas (31-35 yards, 36-40 yards, throws to the left, throws in clean pockets, and throws into tight windows). He was the most accurate deep passer throwing into clean pockets, being accurate on 66.7% of his passes there. He was also second in accuracy on throws to his left and into tight windows.

I know I won't convince you. Just wanted to add my 2 cents in the discussion. Back to the draft..

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:33 pm

WallytheVike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:58 pm

Well thank goodness for that. How about Wilson / Cousins. Who would you rather have?

Wilson by a mile. He is a better passer, creates with his legs when guys aren't open, and most importantly, helps his team win.

The ONLY thing Cousins does better is throw check downs.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:16 pm

WallytheVike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:03 pm Watching the ESPN mock draft last night and Kiper picked for us. He took a Defensive Tackle I've never heard of before and then they spent all of about 5 seconds talking about him before moving on. What the heck did we do that guy? Someone must of pissed him off.

Lol was it Ed Oliver? Or one of the Clemson guys?