Vikings Message Board.Com

VikingsFan84 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:35 pm

Cliff wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:43 am

If anyone needs professional help it's you. Who goes into a topic they're not interested in and then complains that the topic is happening? As if you couldn't have just not read it.

Nobody cares that you don't care. Move on.

I already got professional help but since you replied to my post, you obviously care

I care insomuch as I have to moderate the board. If you're telling me I can make my life easier by banning you let me know.

I think anyone invested in this board cares about the civility with which we interact with one another. Kapp made a solid thread and now the first page is soiled with a childish temper tantrum. If you're not interested in the topic, move on. Be decent to one another, for Valhalla's sake!

I think that its a fairly....ummm...fun angle to take, the owners are black balling the nflpa president. And its a fine thing to discuss on a message board.

However I don't think that's in fact the truth here. If you can help a team in the NFL, they will sign you. Winning football games rises to the top as priority in the NFL.

Some previous nflpa presidents; Eric Winston, Kevin Mawae, Troy Vincent all had long NFL careers.

Sadly I think if there is truth to "we called over and over and they never called us back" it probably speaks more to stubbornness that Bradbury could be fixed, helped, whatever. Coaches, execs, scouts, etc have egos. Even though it's a different regime a lot of the same scouting framework stayed the same iirc. *shrugs *

Have a hard time thinking all NFL owners would be lock step together on refusing to sign a player that would help their team win games when it wasn't a problem for previous nflpa presidents. Maybe I am the naive one. Heh

makila wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:42 pm I think that its a fairly....ummm...fun angle to take, the owners are black balling the nflpa president. And its a fine thing to discuss on a message board.

However I don't think that's in fact the truth here. If you can help a team in the NFL, they will sign you. Winning football games rises to the top as priority in the NFL.

Some previous nflpa presidents; Eric Winston, Kevin Mawae, Troy Vincent all had long NFL careers.

Sadly I think if there is truth to "we called over and over and they never called us back" it probably speaks more to stubbornness that Bradbury could be fixed, helped, whatever. Coaches, execs, scouts, etc have egos. Even though it's a different regime a lot of the same scouting framework stayed the same iirc. *shrugs *

Have a hard time thinking all NFL owners would be lock step together on refusing to sign a player that would help their team win games when it wasn't a problem for previous nflpa presidents. Maybe I am the naive one. Heh

Thank you for recognizing how unlikely collusion in this is. It would take a level or coordination between all the owners that just isn't going to happen.

I wish I could remember where I saw the article about Tretter’s refusal to practice was a concern due to the effect it was having behind the scenes. Every ten year veteran deals with nagging health issues and would rather sit out practice. Tretter reportedly took it to the next level, never practiced and played at a high level. Even younger players according to the article were questioning it. Add to the mix the admission that the knee didn’t have to be drained after week eight.

The bottom line is that we are all just fans with opinions. The team has no obligation to even consider fan’s opinions when making personnel moves. Our only involvement is to either give them our time or move on and find another form of entertainment. I’ve witnessed the entire history of this team from ten years old to present. Things haven’t always been great, we got close four times, but I keep following the home team. That’s all I ask from sports otherwise why bother. This fighting among fans over their personal opinions is akin to urinating into the wind. There are some very knowledgeable fans on this forum capable of typing out a detailed page of stats. Unfortunately some seem to be obsessed with convincing everyone to agree with their opinions. When two of those types but heads the thread goes south and everyone else shuts up. I have seen that happen in other forums and it chased a lot of good contributors away.

Why can’t Vikings fans all just get along?

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:32 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:42 pm
Well, I know my post was long, but I addressed your question.

You can say it doesn’t matter, and I suppose at this point it’s water under the bridge. But again, what if poor center play derails our season, and the 5th-ranked center in football WANTED to play for the Vikings but was blackballed by a collusion effort between the league and its owners? Are you honestly going to tell me that doesn’t matter?

If so, then I suggest you ignore this thread.

Sorry Kapp, but I don't believe the owners are that united. Think about how unlikely it is. First they would have to be 100% united in this. For that to happen there would have to be back alley conversations regarding it going on. Then with that in place they would have to be 100% scumbags. Yeah I know all rich people are scumbags no other possible reason they're rich right (sarcasm). Then they have to be willing to chance the inevitable court cases accusing them of collusion and blackballing. No way is he being blackballed or any collusion is going on.

Like I said, Zulgad tends to be incredibly cynical. So on one hand, I can totally agree with you.

But when you read the entire SI article, and everything Tretter stands for ... the way he talks (for example, he says he wants to "cause chaos" when it comes to tactics for things that benefit the union) I could see the owners being pretty upset about that. He's an incredibly effective leader for the union, and that's something the owners don't necessarily want.

Hard for me to decide who's right.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:50 am

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:32 pm

Sorry Kapp, but I don't believe the owners are that united. Think about how unlikely it is. First they would have to be 100% united in this. For that to happen there would have to be back alley conversations regarding it going on. Then with that in place they would have to be 100% scumbags. Yeah I know all rich people are scumbags no other possible reason they're rich right (sarcasm). Then they have to be willing to chance the inevitable court cases accusing them of collusion and blackballing. No way is he being blackballed or any collusion is going on.

Like I said, Zulgad tends to be incredibly cynical. So on one hand, I can totally agree with you.

But when you read the entire SI article, and everything Tretter stands for ... the way he talks (for example, he says he wants to "cause chaos" when it comes to tactics for things that benefit the union) I could see the owners being pretty upset about that. He's an incredibly effective leader for the union, and that's something the owners don't necessarily want.

Hard for me to decide who's right.

Look at all the factors that have to happen for this to be actual collusion. Chances are minuscule.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:01 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:50 am
Like I said, Zulgad tends to be incredibly cynical. So on one hand, I can totally agree with you.

But when you read the entire SI article, and everything Tretter stands for ... the way he talks (for example, he says he wants to "cause chaos" when it comes to tactics for things that benefit the union) I could see the owners being pretty upset about that. He's an incredibly effective leader for the union, and that's something the owners don't necessarily want.

Hard for me to decide who's right.

Look at all the factors that have to happen for this to be actual collusion. Chances are minuscule.

Yep. Let’s say you’re right.

That brings us back to the original question. Why did no one return the calls of his agent? If his knee is as sound as he claims, then you’d think someone would at least bring him in for a physical … especially a center-needy team like the Vikings, and especially if he had reasonable contract demands. This is a top-5 center we’re talking about. KOC and Kwesi claim they didn’t even know he called. KOC I could understand. But Kwesi? How is it possible that the general manager of a team with cap space and desperately in need of a center was unaware that a top-5 center wanted to play for his team?

You have to admit, it’s a little fishy. Who’s telling the truth? Somebody’s not.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:39 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:01 pm
Look at all the factors that have to happen for this to be actual collusion. Chances are minuscule.

Yep. Let’s say you’re right.

That brings us back to the original question. Why did no one return the calls of his agent? If his knee is as sound as he claims, then you’d think someone would at least bring him in for a physical … especially a center-needy team like the Vikings, and especially if he had reasonable contract demands. This is a top-5 center we’re talking about. KOC and Kwesi claim they didn’t even know he called. KOC I could understand. But Kwesi? How is it possible that the general manager of a team with cap space and desperately in need of a center was unaware that a top-5 center wanted to play for his team?

You have to admit, it’s a little fishy. Who’s telling the truth? Somebody’s not.

I wouldn't call him a top 5 center regardless of any PFF rankings. I agree that we should have looked into the possibility of signing him. Something fishy may be going on. I don't think the fishyness is collusion.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:01 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:50 am
Like I said, Zulgad tends to be incredibly cynical. So on one hand, I can totally agree with you.

But when you read the entire SI article, and everything Tretter stands for ... the way he talks (for example, he says he wants to "cause chaos" when it comes to tactics for things that benefit the union) I could see the owners being pretty upset about that. He's an incredibly effective leader for the union, and that's something the owners don't necessarily want.

Hard for me to decide who's right.

Look at all the factors that have to happen for this to be actual collusion. Chances are minuscule.

Right, and that would never happen in professional sports, right? : The bottom line is money for these people, they dont even have to threaten, just the thought of it happening. Judd makes a lot of sense. So have others. One thing is for certain, the fans will never know.

JJBreaksRecords wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:07 am

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:01 pm
Look at all the factors that have to happen for this to be actual collusion. Chances are minuscule.

Right, and that would never happen in professional sports, right? : The bottom line is money for these people, they dont even have to threaten, just the thought of it happening. Judd makes a lot of sense. So have others. One thing is for certain, the fans will never know.

I watch most of the Purple Daily content and Judd’s default setting is always the most negative scenario. I’m not sure if that’s his podcast personality or if it’s his default view of life but one has to take it with a grain of salt. I always expect his input to be some negative imagined crisis or conspiracy. Some of them have been spot on but a lot of them prove to be wrong. I like considering his opinions and as one of the original Vikings fans since 1961 I’d like to get my hands on a six pack of “Before I Die” so I’m not a “hater”.

This Tretter situation looks to be over but it wouldn’t surprise me if he got signed after camp. Anything is possible so never say never but his retirement appears to be legit and a moot point if there isn’t any interest.

I think anyone invested in this board cares about the civility with which we interact with one another. Kapp made a solid thread and now the first page is soiled with a childish temper tantrum. If you're not interested in the topic, move on. Be decent to one another, for Valhalla's sake!

I get the critiques of Judd Zulgad, but it seems to me that posters here are not realizing that many folks that follow and report on the Vikings think that there is some fishy things going on with Tretter. It is far from an "out there" conspiracy theorist's notion.
See, for example, this:

It's not the first time we've seen this kind of thing in the NFL, honestly. Folks just don't pay close enough attention or don't want to believe it because it creates all kinds of cognitive dissonance.

StanM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:57 am

JJBreaksRecords wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:07 am

Right, and that would never happen in professional sports, right? : The bottom line is money for these people, they dont even have to threaten, just the thought of it happening. Judd makes a lot of sense. So have others. One thing is for certain, the fans will never know.

I watch most of the Purple Daily content and Judd’s default setting is always the most negative scenario. I’m not sure if that’s his podcast personality or if it’s his default view of life but one has to take it with a grain of salt. I always expect his input to be some negative imagined crisis or conspiracy. Some of them have been spot on but a lot of them prove to be wrong. I like considering his opinions and as one of the original Vikings fans since 1961 I’d like to get my hands on a six pack of “Before I Die” so I’m not a “hater”.

This Tretter situation looks to be over but it wouldn’t surprise me if he got signed after camp. Anything is possible so never say never but his retirement appears to be legit and a moot point if there isn’t any interest.

I totally agree with you about Judd. I mentioned that he’s extremely cynical.

I’m going more by the SI article. It goes into great (actually sort of exhausting) detail about Tretter’s effectiveness as NFLPA President. If this article is true, and I have no reason to believe it’s not given the detail it goes into, then Tretter is a huge thorn in the side of Goodell and the owners. Does that prove collusion? Not even close.

But nobody can tell me that it doesn’t happen. There have been at least four separate allegations of it in Major League Baseball, the most famous of which happened in the 1980s. Commissioner Peter Ueberroth told the owners to hold down salaries “by whatever means possible,” and that’s exactly what the owners did. In 1987, only four free agents managed to sign with other teams. All of them got only 1-year deals, and three of them took pay cuts. This included Andre Dawson, who could only get a 1-year, $500k deal. How underpaid was Dawson? Well, he ended up winning the ‘87 National League MVP. Kirk Gibson, a true star at the time, couldn’t get anybody to sign him.

In the end, a judge ruled that the owners had been in collusion on three separate occasions (‘85, ‘86 and ‘87) and ordered them to pay $280 million in damages to the MLBPA.

Of course, the NFL has been charged with collusion. The league settled with Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid for an undisclosed amount of money in their collusion grievance against the NFL. That doesn’t mean owners colluded to keep them out of the league. It simply means the NFL paid them to go away. While the amount of the settlement is confidential, the Wall Street Journal has reported it at $10 million, which if true probably represented a savings for the NFL in legal fees.

Point being — it’s very, very hard to prove collusion. This is especially true since the MLB collusion because unions have made sure to include strict collusion provisions in CBA language as a result. So Judd’s assertion that “nobody does collusion like the NFL” is pretty cynical, to the point of being reckless.

Again, I simply want to know why NOBODY will even take the call of a quality center (OK VV, if you say he’s not top-5, fine … he’s miles better than Bradbury) who just happens to be one of the most effective presidents the NFLPA has ever had. Also, think about this. Does Ziggy Wilf really want JC Tretter in the same locker room as Kirk Cousins, king of the guaranteed contract?

Yes, collusion is nearly impossible to prove. MLB was stupid in the ‘80s, leaving a trail of evidence as wide as I-35. But an individual owner not wanting to hire a guy who has cost that owner money? I can believe it. I see it as less collusion and more individual retaliation.

I encourage anyone with even a passing interest to read the SI article. It’s pretty eye-opening. Even though I’ve never been in a union, I can see from this read how effective Tretter is. And that makes him a threat to owners.

Let me add this. I’m not necessarily mad about it. There’s nothing any of us can do to change it. I just find it fascinating. All this time, I thought Tretter couldn’t get a job because his knee was shot. This casts doubt on that notion, at least in my eyes.

I’ll shut up now.

Do you think that it is possible that Kwesi is just not a fan of Tretter?
They were in Cleveland together and it is not hard to listen to what people say in the same building. Maybe Tretter is an A-hole? I would have no idea, but Kwesi was in the front office while Tretter played for the Browns.
Not hard to ignore a call from an agent for someone that is bad for team chemistry when you are in the process of changing a culture.

Have to say though, this is all speculation on my part. Just a thought

IIsweet wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:01 am Do you think that it is possible that Kwesi is just not a fan of Tretter?
They were in Cleveland together and it is not hard to listen to what people say in the same building. Maybe Tretter is an A-hole? I would have no idea, but Kwesi was in the front office while Tretter played for the Browns.
Not hard to ignore a call from an agent for someone that is bad for team chemistry when you are in the process of changing a culture.

Have to say though, this is all speculation on my part. Just a thought

Certainly possible. Kwesi was in Cleveland the same time Tretter was. He might know something we don’t.

In reading the SI article, however, I don’t think Tretter was bad for team chemistry. Quite the opposite. The guy seems to be a uniter. But who knows?

You bring up a very valid point.