Vikings Message Board.Com

I would prefer we wait until draft and see what may be there at 13 , I think Wirfs will go to Giants with pick 4.

Husker Vike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:19 pm I would prefer we wait until draft and see what may be there at 13 , I think Wirfs will go to Giants with pick 4.

I heard Giants are considering trading down, if they do, they could draft Hennessy since he is a Giants fan, haha

Obviously just a mock, but this helps illustrate why I'd be hesitant to trade up, and prefer to trade back.

In the last mock I did, I traded back, got Reagor at 33, Jaylon Johnson at 34. I could easily see those being the Vikings picks at 22 and 25, so that works. The big point here is that there is a group of players from 20 to maybe 40 that rate pretty similarly, and you are going to get valuable pieces at the top of the second round just about as much as you are at 22 and 25. Players I also added with the extra picks from those trade backs?

65.
Clyde Edwards-Helaire
RB LSU

75.
Amik Robertson
CB Louisiana Tech

147.
Kindle Vildor
CB Georgia Southern

160.
Michael Ojemudia
CB Iowa

197.
Tyrie Cleveland
WR Florida

215.
Javelin Guidry
S Utah

fiestavike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:40 am Obviously just a mock, but this helps illustrate why I'd be hesitant to trade up, and prefer to trade back.

In the last mock I did, I traded back, got Reagor at 33, Jaylon Johnson at 34. I could easily see those being the Vikings picks at 22 and 25, so that works. The big point here is that there is a group of players from 20 to maybe 40 that rate pretty similarly, and you are going to get valuable pieces at the top of the second round just about as much as you are at 22 and 25. Players I also added with the extra picks from those trade backs?

65.
Clyde Edwards-Helaire
RB LSU

75.
Amik Robertson
CB Louisiana Tech

147.
Kindle Vildor
CB Georgia Southern

160.
Michael Ojemudia
CB Iowa

197.
Tyrie Cleveland
WR Florida

215.
Javelin Guidry
S Utah

Totally agree; my only thought here is that every GM knows this, so there won't be trade partners. The only way there will be is if someone really wants to snag one of the QBs that falls (Herbert, Love, maybe Hurts, but I doubt it). The other advantage to picking at 22 and 25 instead of say 35 and 40 is that we get our pick of that tier. We don't know how Rick's board looks, and they might very well really favor a certain WR / CB / OL and not want to take the risk of having someone else pick them just to ensure that we get maximum value. I think it might be best for us fans to be OK with someone who is projected as a second round pick at our 1st rounders, because that's really likely to happen, if we stay put.

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:07 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:53 pm

They also traded back to the first for CPatt

What an athlete he was, just not a prototypical WR
But SOOOO dangerous once he had the ball in his hands ...

He was an awesome kick returner, too bad he only played for 3 years with Vikings but I was very happy for him when he got a ring with the Patriots but now he is on the Bears now so I have to root against him, yuck!

Never has there been a more perfect fit for a below average WR. Bears fans just absolutely love the guy, even though he still doesn't do anything but return kicks well.

It is pretty cool to read how much he is appreciated there, and CP must be pretty happy he finally found a team that will just let him be great at what he is great at and not be concerned with the other part of his play.

When you really think about it, there probably isn't another 4th or 5th WR who helps their team out more than Patterson and I kind of wish we would have kept him.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:40 am Obviously just a mock, but this helps illustrate why I'd be hesitant to trade up, and prefer to trade back.

In the last mock I did, I traded back, got Reagor at 33, Jaylon Johnson at 34. I could easily see those being the Vikings picks at 22 and 25, so that works. The big point here is that there is a group of players from 20 to maybe 40 that rate pretty similarly, and you are going to get valuable pieces at the top of the second round just about as much as you are at 22 and 25. Players I also added with the extra picks from those trade backs?

65.
Clyde Edwards-Helaire
RB LSU

75.
Amik Robertson
CB Louisiana Tech

147.
Kindle Vildor
CB Georgia Southern

160.
Michael Ojemudia
CB Iowa

197.
Tyrie Cleveland
WR Florida

215.
Javelin Guidry
S Utah

Cylde is a waste of a draft pick since Vikings have Cook, Mattison, Boone, and Abdullah, other than that, your mock draft is decent

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:37 am
Never has there been a more perfect fit for a below average WR. Bears fans just absolutely love the guy, even though he still doesn't do anything but return kicks well.

He also covers punts incredibly well. He's made several highlight reel plays as a punt coverage gunner.

He was also effective at gimmick plays and bubble screens. But it became ridiculously predictable on the Vikings. Every time he was on the field on offense, it would be a reverse or a bubble screen to CPatt.

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:32 am

fiestavike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:40 am Obviously just a mock, but this helps illustrate why I'd be hesitant to trade up, and prefer to trade back.

In the last mock I did, I traded back, got Reagor at 33, Jaylon Johnson at 34. I could easily see those being the Vikings picks at 22 and 25, so that works. The big point here is that there is a group of players from 20 to maybe 40 that rate pretty similarly, and you are going to get valuable pieces at the top of the second round just about as much as you are at 22 and 25. Players I also added with the extra picks from those trade backs?

65.
Clyde Edwards-Helaire
RB LSU

75.
Amik Robertson
CB Louisiana Tech

147.
Kindle Vildor
CB Georgia Southern

160.
Michael Ojemudia
CB Iowa

197.
Tyrie Cleveland
WR Florida

215.
Javelin Guidry
S Utah

Totally agree; my only thought here is that every GM knows this, so there won't be trade partners. The only way there will be is if someone really wants to snag one of the QBs that falls (Herbert, Love, maybe Hurts, but I doubt it). The other advantage to picking at 22 and 25 instead of say 35 and 40 is that we get our pick of that tier. We don't know how Rick's board looks, and they might very well really favor a certain WR / CB / OL and not want to take the risk of having someone else pick them just to ensure that we get maximum value. I think it might be best for us fans to be OK with someone who is projected as a second round pick at our 1st rounders, because that's really likely to happen, if we stay put.

Very much agree. Not likely we'll be able to trade back.

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:12 am

fiestavike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:40 am Obviously just a mock, but this helps illustrate why I'd be hesitant to trade up, and prefer to trade back.

In the last mock I did, I traded back, got Reagor at 33, Jaylon Johnson at 34. I could easily see those being the Vikings picks at 22 and 25, so that works. The big point here is that there is a group of players from 20 to maybe 40 that rate pretty similarly, and you are going to get valuable pieces at the top of the second round just about as much as you are at 22 and 25. Players I also added with the extra picks from those trade backs?

65.
Clyde Edwards-Helaire
RB LSU

75.
Amik Robertson
CB Louisiana Tech

147.
Kindle Vildor
CB Georgia Southern

160.
Michael Ojemudia
CB Iowa

197.
Tyrie Cleveland
WR Florida

215.
Javelin Guidry
S Utah

Cylde is a waste of a draft pick since Vikings have Cook, Mattison, Boone, and Abdullah, other than that, your mock draft is decent

Personally, I don't think Cook is liable to be with us next year (plus may hold out this year), Boone is nothing special, and Abdullah isn't either. Clyde at 65 is a great pick IMO.

VikingPaul73 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:20 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:37 am
Never has there been a more perfect fit for a below average WR. Bears fans just absolutely love the guy, even though he still doesn't do anything but return kicks well.

He also covers punts incredibly well. He's made several highlight reel plays as a punt coverage gunner.

He was also effective at gimmick plays and bubble screens. But it became ridiculously predictable on the Vikings. Every time he was on the field on offense, it would be a reverse or a bubble screen to CPatt.

The guy definitely has value and it is too bad we couldn't keep him.

I wonder if he would still be on the team if he had been good value as a 3rd round pick and not a bit of a disappointment as a 1st rounder?

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:27 am I wonder if he would still be on the team if he had been good value as a 3rd round pick and not a bit of a disappointment as a 1st rounder?

Not sure if he'd still be on the team, but I agree with the basic point you're making. When the Vikings moved up into the 1st to get him they weren't making that move to get a good punt returner or a gadget offensive player. Once it was clear he wouldn't evolve into an effective receiver, they let him go, and other teams found ways to get the most out of his unique skillset without having to pay much of a price to get it.

I personally was happy when the Vikings moved up to get him. I saw the same thing Spielman did and hoped for the same result - that pro coaching and time would allow CP to evolve into a dynamic WR. He had all of the physical tools to become a very effective receiver. Too bad the mental aspects of it weren't there and apparently couldn't be developed.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:22 am Clyde at 65 is a great pick IMO.

Clyde is a good pick at #65 if the Vikings have their OL issues sorted out. If not, I don't think he's a good pick. According to the Walterfootball information on him, he's 5'7", which is short for a running back. Granted, he somehow weighs 207 pounds, so he's not a small guy per se, but height is an issue if you're asking him to go out on routes and size is an issue if you're asking him to stay in and block much larger defensive players.

Also, he didn't exactly light it up speedwise, either. According to that same info on Walterfootball, he clocked in at a pedestrian 4.60 40. That is pretty slow for a pro RB.

https://www.walterfootball.com/draft2020RB.php

He was productive in college. He also played for LSU, a team that pretty much was loaded across the board offensively and defensively. If people can question Joe Burrow's pro potential based on the fact that he had so much talent around him that he rarely had to show anything special, I'd say the same thing about Clyde.

I'd be very cautious going after a RB in the first 3 rounds in this upcoming draft even if the Vikings do pick up some extra picks by trading back when there are gaping holes at both guard positions on the OL and equally pressing needs at DE, IDL, and CB. RB is a luxury in this draft. If there is a clear BPA selection sitting at a spot I won't criticize Rick for going RB at the pick, but for me that would be DeAndre Swift sitting on the board at #58. If that happens you make that pick.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:13 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:27 am I wonder if he would still be on the team if he had been good value as a 3rd round pick and not a bit of a disappointment as a 1st rounder?

Not sure if he'd still be on the team, but I agree with the basic point you're making. When the Vikings moved up into the 1st to get him they weren't making that move to get a good punt returner or a gadget offensive player. Once it was clear he wouldn't evolve into an effective receiver, they let him go, and other teams found ways to get the most out of his unique skillset without having to pay much of a price to get it.

I personally was happy when the Vikings moved up to get him. I saw the same thing Spielman did and hoped for the same result - that pro coaching and time would allow CP to evolve into a dynamic WR. He had all of the physical tools to become a very effective receiver. Too bad the mental aspects of it weren't there and apparently couldn't be developed.

Patterson took a couple hits on kick returns that slowed him down...he was never quite the same in purple after that, but I havent seen enough of him in his other NFL stops to gauge to what degree he recovered.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:13 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:27 am I wonder if he would still be on the team if he had been good value as a 3rd round pick and not a bit of a disappointment as a 1st rounder?

Not sure if he'd still be on the team, but I agree with the basic point you're making. When the Vikings moved up into the 1st to get him they weren't making that move to get a good punt returner or a gadget offensive player. Once it was clear he wouldn't evolve into an effective receiver, they let him go, and other teams found ways to get the most out of his unique skillset without having to pay much of a price to get it.

I personally was happy when the Vikings moved up to get him. I saw the same thing Spielman did and hoped for the same result - that pro coaching and time would allow CP to evolve into a dynamic WR. He had all of the physical tools to become a very effective receiver. Too bad the mental aspects of it weren't there and apparently couldn't be developed.

Good points. I can't remember how much the Raiders gave him, but I don't think it was a huge amount. And I can't remember what the Vikings' cap situation was at the time either. Oh well.....like StumpHunter said a bit of a disappointment as a 1st rounder but man he was fun to watch

I think Jefferson will go at #21 and we will pick Johnson.