Min at DET post-game

[PurpleMustReign]

Comimentary football is a thing... When you win. Had they lost today, we wouldn't have called it that. I get what toure saying... But they didn't even get one first down in their first four drives.

Had the Vikings lost today, it wouldn't have been complementary football. The defense or the special teams wouldn't have held up when the offense was struggling.

This board is exhausting.

LOL ok.

[VikingLord]

You know, I'm still trying to understand what is wrong with the offense. I mean, we know they have talented players. Even the offensive line isn't terrible all of the time. But if you look at QB, RB, TE, WR... they have talent. I've heard commentators call the WR tandem of Thielen and Diggs the most talented in the entire league this season. Cousins, for all his flaws, has tossed 29 TDs this season. Cook looks the part of a feature back, and Murray is no slouch either. And Rudolph is a weapon as well. This is an offense that, at least on paper, looks the part. And to watch this offense perform so inconsistently over long stretches of games is beyond maddening. To watch fairly average defenses basically shut them down over the last several weeks is even more maddening.

And then, they wake up sometimes, and you see them in all their potential and glory and you think, my god, with the defense this team has, they could go far in the playoffs. Name a team in the NFC that is better than this team if the offense is moving the ball? It sure ain't the Saints. Maybe in their dome in New Orleans, maybe... It sure isn't the Rams. Maybe the Bears, but mostly because the Bears have had a penchant for creating defensive turnovers this year. But really, even the Bears aren't clearly better than the Vikings provided the Vikings offense is moving it like we know they can.

So what is it? Against Miami, they came out of the gate blazing. Against the Lions, it took until late in the first half. I keep thinking they are putting it together and figuring it out, and soon (this season) we are going to see them finally play a full 4 quarters. Heck, next week against the Bears would be a great time to see it start since it sure looks like they're going to be playing Chicago in the 1st round).

The defense is rounding out. That game today could have gotten really ugly in the first half had the defense not held up. They allowed a few big plays to the Lions, but kept them out of the endzone and then completely shut them down in the 2nd half. I was impressed by what they managed to do. But that offense... If this team is going to make noise in the playoffs, we need to see a full 4 quarters of production against the Bears on Sunday. Start to finish. I don't know if that game will matter to the Bears at this point (probably not, but I haven't checked) in terms of seeding for the playoffs, but even if it doesn't and they sit some of their starters, the Vikings offense has to show it can move the ball consistently against that defense and put points on the board. If we see that, even if the Bears are resting guys, I will be very, very optimistic about their chances. This team has the defense to go far. They need the offense to pull its weight.

Maybe the best part of this team is, the expectations are fairly low right now. Nobody will expect them to win, so they can play free and easy and with a chip on their shoulder. I enjoyed watching them late last year, but I think I'm actually enjoying watching them more this year.

[808vikingsfan]

Maybe the best part of this team is, the expectations are fairly low right now. Nobody will expect them to win, so they can play free and easy and with a chip on their shoulder. I enjoyed watching them late last year, but I think I'm actually enjoying watching them more this year.

I think there's a lot of pressure on the coaching staff, and Cousins right now. And this year is so frustrating to watch. Last year, there was chemistry. This year, everything feels out of sync. My opinion of course.

[PurpleKoolaid]

You know, I'm still trying to understand what is wrong with the offense. I mean, we know they have talented players. Even the offensive line isn't terrible all of the time. But if you look at QB, RB, TE, WR... they have talent. I've heard commentators call the WR tandem of Thielen and Diggs the most talented in the entire league this season. Cousins, for all his flaws, has tossed 29 TDs this season. Cook looks the part of a feature back, and Murray is no slouch either. And Rudolph is a weapon as well. This is an offense that, at least on paper, looks the part. And to watch this offense perform so inconsistently over long stretches of games is beyond maddening. To watch fairly average defenses basically shut them down over the last several weeks is even more maddening.

And then, they wake up sometimes, and you see them in all their potential and glory and you think, my god, with the defense this team has, they could go far in the playoffs. Name a team in the NFC that is better than this team if the offense is moving the ball? It sure ain't the Saints. Maybe in their dome in New Orleans, maybe... It sure isn't the Rams. Maybe the Bears, but mostly because the Bears have had a penchant for creating defensive turnovers this year. But really, even the Bears aren't clearly better than the Vikings provided the Vikings offense is moving it like we know they can.

So what is it? Against Miami, they came out of the gate blazing. Against the Lions, it took until late in the first half. I keep thinking they are putting it together and figuring it out, and soon (this season) we are going to see them finally play a full 4 quarters. Heck, next week against the Bears would be a great time to see it start since it sure looks like they're going to be playing Chicago in the 1st round).

The defense is rounding out. That game today could have gotten really ugly in the first half had the defense not held up. They allowed a few big plays to the Lions, but kept them out of the endzone and then completely shut them down in the 2nd half. I was impressed by what they managed to do. But that offense... If this team is going to make noise in the playoffs, we need to see a full 4 quarters of production against the Bears on Sunday. Start to finish. I don't know if that game will matter to the Bears at this point (probably not, but I haven't checked) in terms of seeding for the playoffs, but even if it doesn't and they sit some of their starters, the Vikings offense has to show it can move the ball consistently against that defense and put points on the board. If we see that, even if the Bears are resting guys, I will be very, very optimistic about their chances. This team has the defense to go far. They need the offense to pull its weight.

Maybe the best part of this team is, the expectations are fairly low right now. Nobody will expect them to win, so they can play free and easy and with a chip on their shoulder. I enjoyed watching them late last year, but I think I'm actually enjoying watching them more this year.

Its easier to understand when you realize this Vikings team isnt good. Its an average team that most of us love. But it isnt a good team. It cant beat good teams, but it can beat the Miami's and Detroits, although it will struggle against them. I dont know why Zimmer cant make adjustments on the fly, especially on the offense. Or is he to good to be bothered by something like the offense? But even making the adjustments for the D, it takes zimmer a long time. Once he does its game over.

I dont think this team will win next week. Even if the Bears have no reason to win and rest people. And if we were to win, and had to play the Bears at Soldier's field, I pretty sure we would lose by 20+ points.

[S197]

So what is it?

I think it's a combination of things. First, I think some of the on paper stuff is over rating players. It assumes perfect conditions, like Cook being healthy all the time, which he's not and was one of the concerns coming out of college. Ball security being the other and while it hasn't been a major issue he's had inopportune turnovers. It also assumes Rudolph plays like today every week when in reality he's having fewer meaningful games. Also Thielen and Diggs are a great tandem but they're not light years ahead of anyone else. Look and Baldwin and Lockett tonight, both were making ridiculous plays. Parity, especially at the top of the NFC, is very close.

But the major issue is the offensive line is that bad. If they're not allowing pressure on 3 man rushes, they're killing drives with holding penalties or their inability to get any sort of push in redzone/short yardage situations. The difference between a good and bad O-line in the NFL is probably 5-6 bad plays a game. Again, high degree of parity.

So in aggregate things may not look that bad but it's cumulative. Cousins can throw a lot of TDs but strip sacks, batted balls, and pick 6s add up. Especially when the O-line allows pressure in between or a costly penalty. Or our kickers (plural) can't make easy FGs let alone PATs.

When everything runs perfectly it may look nice but that simply doesn't happen in the NFL. In aggregate, teams like the Saints, etc., are simply just much better teams right now. Teams like Chicago and Seattle fixed their known deficiencies, the Vikings didn't. The salary cap makes teams a lot more competitive so the margin for error is really small and lets face it, the Vikings came out the gate (draft) with a major #### up and really haven't been able to recover.

[808vikingsfan]

So what is it?

But the major issue is the offensive line is that bad. If they're not allowing pressure on 3 man rushes, they're killing drives with holding penalties or their inability to get any sort of push in redzone/short yardage situations. The difference between a good and bad O-line in the NFL is probably 5-6 bad plays a game. Again, high degree of parity.

I know I'm a broken record but I think the major issue is Cousins deficiencies. You put Russell Wilson on this team and the OL will look much better, the running game will be more effective, the defense would resemble last year. Wilson would take this team to another level. . Yeah, I got a man crush.

[PurpleKoolaid]

But the major issue is the offensive line is that bad. If they're not allowing pressure on 3 man rushes, they're killing drives with holding penalties or their inability to get any sort of push in redzone/short yardage situations. The difference between a good and bad O-line in the NFL is probably 5-6 bad plays a game. Again, high degree of parity.

I know I'm a broken record but I think the major issue is Cousins deficiencies. You put Russell Wilson on this team and the OL will look much better, the running game will be more effective, the defense would resemble last year. Wilson would take this team to another level. . Yeah, I got a man crush.

No doubt at all. Cousins is more over-rated then Hershel Walker. Well that may be stretching it, but its just as close as some people thinking Cousins has done anything in his career. I really really wish he didnt hate NJ so much. Even so, Ricky completely screwed the offense over by not upgrading the Oline. Remmers and Reiif wouldn't be backups on most teams, and our backups dont belong in the NFL. If things turn out the way I expect them to in a few weeks, I hope Rick Spielman is no longer our GM. I hope someone in the NFC takes him. Hopefully Zimmer is still the HC after this happens, and realizes the importance of being a HC on both sides of the ball.

[VikingLord]

But the major issue is the offensive line is that bad. If they're not allowing pressure on 3 man rushes, they're killing drives with holding penalties or their inability to get any sort of push in redzone/short yardage situations. The difference between a good and bad O-line in the NFL is probably 5-6 bad plays a game. Again, high degree of parity.

I know I'm a broken record but I think the major issue is Cousins deficiencies. You put Russell Wilson on this team and the OL will look much better, the running game will be more effective, the defense would resemble last year. Wilson would take this team to another level. . Yeah, I got a man crush.

Call me crazy, but I thought Cousins looked hella good in the second half today. They had him rolling out, faking handoffs, moving up... He looked comfortable, confident, and while he missed a few he'd probably like to have back, he looked like the QB everyone hoped he would be when they went out and got him at the start of the year.

Maybe it's just playing loose. Maybe it's just an attitude. I think the offensive line is a problem, but it's not a fatal flaw. And let's face it - every team, even the Saints and the Rams and the Bears, have similar flaws at some level on their team.

I am hoping beyond hope that the Vikings step it up in this upcoming game on offense. I want to see the Cousins we've seen for stretches of games this season where he's dictating things to the defense and making them worry about the mid and deep parts of the field. I think that is when he's at his best by far.

[PurpleKoolaid]

I know I'm a broken record but I think the major issue is Cousins deficiencies. You put Russell Wilson on this team and the OL will look much better, the running game will be more effective, the defense would resemble last year. Wilson would take this team to another level. . Yeah, I got a man crush.

Call me crazy, but I thought Cousins looked hella good in the second half today. They had him rolling out, faking handoffs, moving up... He looked comfortable, confident, and while he missed a few he'd probably like to have back, he looked like the QB everyone hoped he would be when they went out and got him at the start of the year.

Maybe it's just playing loose. Maybe it's just an attitude. I think the offensive line is a problem, but it's not a fatal flaw. And let's face it - every team, even the Saints and the Rams and the Bears, have similar flaws at some level on their team.

I am hoping beyond hope that the Vikings step it up in this upcoming game on offense. I want to see the Cousins we've seen for stretches of games this season where he's dictating things to the defense and making them worry about the mid and deep parts of the field. I think that is when he's at his best by far.

He looked nothing like a billion dollar QB should look like. An elite QB. He missed wide open receivers. Putting on purple shades that tight is fine, but Cousins looked like an average QB should look playing the Lions, who were playing for nothing and gave up the second half.

[808vikingsfan]

I know I'm a broken record but I think the major issue is Cousins deficiencies. You put Russell Wilson on this team and the OL will look much better, the running game will be more effective, the defense would resemble last year. Wilson would take this team to another level. . Yeah, I got a man crush.

Call me crazy, but I thought Cousins looked hella good in the second half today. They had him rolling out, faking handoffs, moving up... He looked comfortable, confident, and while he missed a few he'd probably like to have back, he looked like the QB everyone hoped he would be when they went out and got him at the start of the year.

Maybe it's just playing loose. Maybe it's just an attitude. I think the offensive line is a problem, but it's not a fatal flaw. And let's face it - every team, even the Saints and the Rams and the Bears, have similar flaws at some level on their team.

I am hoping beyond hope that the Vikings step it up in this upcoming game on offense. I want to see the Cousins we've seen for stretches of games this season where he's dictating things to the defense and making them worry about the mid and deep parts of the field. I think that is when he's at his best by far.

But that's the thing, the Vikings can't afford have him play well for part of the game. He needs to be in the game from the beginning. He need to be the one that fires this team up, carry the team on his back, extend plays, help his OL, make good decisions in pressure situations. He's hasn't shown he can do this. That's what is needed in the playoffs. Some of the passes he threw had me scratching my head (the near int comes to mind). That hail mary pass was a beaut tho.

[The negotiator]

Call me crazy, but I thought Cousins looked hella good in the second half today. They had him rolling out, faking handoffs, moving up... He looked comfortable, confident, and while he missed a few he'd probably like to have back, he looked like the QB everyone hoped he would be when they went out and got him at the start of the year.

Maybe it's just playing loose. Maybe it's just an attitude. I think the offensive line is a problem, but it's not a fatal flaw. And let's face it - every team, even the Saints and the Rams and the Bears, have similar flaws at some level on their team.

I am hoping beyond hope that the Vikings step it up in this upcoming game on offense. I want to see the Cousins we've seen for stretches of games this season where he's dictating things to the defense and making them worry about the mid and deep parts of the field. I think that is when he's at his best by far.

But that's the thing, the Vikings can't afford have him play well for part of the game. He needs to be in the game from the beginning. He need to be the one that fires this team up, carry the team on his back, extend plays, help his OL, make good decisions in pressure situations. He's hasn't shown he can do this. That's what is needed in the playoffs. Some of the passes he threw had me scratching my head (the near int comes to mind). That hail mary pass was a beaut tho.

If the leaky O line can give him enough time against Mack and Hicks, if the OC is smart enough to roll him out and play action, we will have a good shot. If they can’t, it doesn’t make any difference who’s playing qb.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Comimentary football is a thing... When you win. Had they lost today, we wouldn't have called it that. I get what toure saying... But they didn't even get one first down in their first four drives.

Had the Vikings lost today, it wouldn't have been complementary football. The defense or the special teams wouldn't have held up when the offense was struggling.

This board is exhausting.

Win or lose, this board is more than exhausting. Last week we win, but then we hear “Miami is banged up, they aren’t any good, coming off an emotional win, etc”. This week we win, “well the offense sucked early on, Cousins can’t move, Cousins holds the ball too long, etc”. And when we lose?! Lookout. This has hands down been the most depressing year on this board. All because we didn’t repeat last years success, which is hard to do regardless (look at the Vikings, jags and eagles this year).

I’m pulling myself from the chat once again. And I’m doing it for the rest of the year. The last two weeks have been HANDS DOWN, the worst two weeks in that chat room all year. And the sad thing is, the Vikings won both games....by a mile. If our QB throws one ball in the dirt, it’s talked about all game. 21 for 28, 253 and 3 tds no turnovers, we win by 18 and he still gets ripped on. The poor guy cant win. No I don’t think he’s god, no I don’t think he’s Tom Brady, but the guy is still good. And sorry, a guy that has that kind of game, shouldn’t be getting crucified in a chat room. This board has turned into negative land. And those fans know exactly who they are. The same ones every week. Kirk throws one ball in the dirt and you have to read the sarcastic “NICE THROW KIRK” every freaking time...like why? I swear that was said on all 7 incompletions. Guys didn’t even do that with Ponder. It brings nothing to the chat. Or if he takes a sack (god forbid), we hear “THROW THE BALL” or “NICE MOBILTY”. Not just once, EVERY TIME he takes a sack. Does he have bad throws? Yeah like every QB. Does he hold the ball too long here and there? Yeah like every QB. But these are said on EVERY incompletion or sack. Like grow up. If you’re a cousins hater, so be it, but the ones on here take it to a WHOLE new level. Kirk has a good game and the Vikings win? Ok let’s run to excuse land to complain about why it wasn’t good enough. It’s nothing but a di** measuring contest every week. Never has this board been like this. I’m ready to be done for good sooner than later

[Mothman]

Had the Vikings lost today, it wouldn't have been complementary football. The defense or the special teams wouldn't have held up when the offense was struggling.

This board is exhausting.

Win or lose, this board is more than exhausting. Last week we win, but then we hear “Miami is banged up, they aren’t any good, coming off an emotional win, etc”. This week we win, “well the offense sucked early on, Cousins can’t move, Cousins holds the ball too long, etc”. And when we lose?! Lookout. This has hands down been the most depressing year on this board. All because we didn’t repeat last years success, which is hard to do regardless (look at the Vikings, jags and eagles this year).

I’m pulling myself from the chat once again. And I’m doing it for the rest of the year. The last two weeks have been HANDS DOWN, the worst two weeks in that chat room all year. And the sad thing is, the Vikings won both games....by a mile. If our QB throws one ball in the dirt, it’s talked about all game. 21 for 28, 253 and 3 tds no turnovers, we win by 18 and he still gets ripped on. The poor guy cant win. No I don’t think he’s god, no I don’t think he’s Tom Brady, but the guy is still good. And sorry, a guy that has that kind of game, shouldn’t be getting crucified in a chat room. This board has turned into negative land. And those fans know exactly who they are. The same ones every week. Kirk throws one ball in the dirt and you have to read the sarcastic “NICE THROW KIRK” every freaking time...like why? I swear that was said on all 7 incompletions. Giys didn’t even do that with Ponder. If you’re a cousins hater, so be it, but the ones on here take it to a WHOLE new level. Kirk has a good game and the Vikings win? Ok let’s run to excuse land to complain about why it wasn’t good enough. It’s nothing but a di** measuring contest every week. Never has this board been like this. I’m ready to be done for good sooner than later

It's actually been like that for a long, long time, which is why good fan/bad fan posts were eventually forbidden.

If the chats bug you, stay out of the chats. It's not complicated.

Mediocre football breeds discontent and controversy among fans and the Vikes have been mediocre for a long time now. They occasionally drop below that level or rise above it but most of the time, they're competitive enough for hopeful fans to see the glass as half full and frustrated fans to see it as half empty. If they ever again put together a 4 or 5 year stretch where they make the postseason every year and win, you'll likely see a much more positive overall response from fandom. Until then, you're going to see this sort of division among Vikes fans because the team hasn't established itself in a clearly positive direction. It shouldn't be surprising at all that there's discontent right now among fans of a team that entered the season talking about their Super Bowl aspirations and sits at 8 wins after 15 games.

The same goes for Cousins. He's not a bad QB but he's very inconsistent. He throws a lot of TDs but he turns it over too much. His record against good teams is terrible. When he starts changing those things, frustration will probably ease off but you can't expect your fellow fans to just be cheerleaders when the team is so thoroughly average. People want to see more.

[Cliff]

I know a lot of people are complaining about how the offense started and it was pretty terrible. However, I don't see it as a problem. Sometimes when a game starts the plan doesn't work. It's super encouraging to see the offense make adjustments and turn it around. I could complain about Cousins but that's silly at this point. Salary aside Cousins isnt a "great" qb but he's good enough if he doesn't have to carry the team. He performed as expected. Not great, not terrible.

The defense was terrific and held up until the offense finally figured themselves out. Not much else to say. Couldn't have asked for much more out of them.

Next week we'll learn if the improvement in the offense is real or we just played Miami and Detroit (which the 'old' offense beat too). Here's hoping!

[dead_poet]

I keep saying this team will go as far as the offensive line will take them. When they're getting destroyed, the offense stalls and Cousins dials up the turnovers.

I haven't seen a back get so small through the tiniest holes than Cook. It's pretty amazing to watch. I question so many up the gut runs against "Snacks" with him early on. But it seems like this team starts getting momentum when he's involved. So yeah, move Dalvin Cook.

We really do need to find a consistent third receiver. Was Beebe even targeted in this one? Man, what a fall for Treadwell. I like when teams apply pressure to both AT and Diggs you can have a Rudy game. That's what good OCs do. I often don't know why it takes so long to make that adjustment. It does baffle me how Cousins hasn't seemed to have much chemistry with Rudolph, especially in the red zone. I guess he just needs to be 44 yards away.

Really need KIrk to be a bit more aggressive when starting out games. His hesitancy can put us in a hole.

I thought Eric Wilson had a good game. Even in run defense (which has been a big weakness).