Vikings Message Board.Com

My buddy's uncle best friend who works nearby saw Jennings arrive in a black SUV being driven by Chillly.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Theres comes a time when you may have to pay that 'crap' to give your QB a target. Not all draft picks are going to be great esp. WRs.

Throwing big $$ at a WR in free agency doesn't mean he's going to be great either (*ahemberrianahem*). It's a balancing act. Overpay for one piece now (that might be mediocre) and you might not be able to retain some key pieces later. I'm all for acquiring the right talent, but at a price that's not detrimental. And not out of desperation.

dead_poet wrote: Throwing big $$ at a WR in free agency doesn't mean he's going to be great either (*ahemberrianahem*). It's a balancing act. Overpay for one piece now (that might be mediocre) and you might not be able to retain some key pieces later. I'm all for acquiring the right talent, but at a price that's not detrimental. And not out of desperation.

I agree, you cant do it all the time. But Ponder is going to need it this year at the rate things are going. I dont like Ponder ( I certainly dont hate him as a person, just dont thing hes an nfl QB) but he deserves a chance with a real honest to goodness route running WR before he looses his job. He didnt get one last year when everyone though he would, and chance are slim he will this year.

PurpleKoolaid wrote: I agree, you cant do it all the time. But Ponder is going to need it this year at the rate things are going. I dont like Ponder ( I certainly dont hate him as a person, just dont thing hes an nfl QB) but he deserves a chance with a real honest to goodness route running WR before he looses his job. He didnt get one last year when everyone though he would, and chance are slim he will this year.

That's a good point. I'm not in favor of significantly overpaying for free agent WRs and if the Vikes can sign Jennings, hopefully they can do it without overpaying. However, if they're going to continue evaluating and developing their young starting QB, they'd be doing a disservice to themselves and Ponder by giving him nothing but second and third rate WRs. Jennings has had a rough ride the past two years so I'm not completely sold on him but if he stays healthy, he's a very good player and as you said, Ponder deserves a chance to throw to "a real honest to goodness route running WR".

dead_poet wrote: Throwing big $$ at a WR in free agency doesn't mean he's going to be great either (*ahemberrianahem*). It's a balancing act. Overpay for one piece now (that might be mediocre) and you might not be able to retain some key pieces later. I'm all for acquiring the right talent, but at a price that's not detrimental. And not out of desperation.

That's the key for me. Desperation is the *last* reason you want to make a move. I don't want Ponder to go into next year without better WR's, but this is a slippery slope for the team overall because once the team starts overpaying based on immediate issues the downstream effects are always unpleasant, and in many cases force other situations that then increase the overall level of desperation. For example, the Vikes go ahead and sign Jennings for some ridiculous sum of money. They then head into the draft thinking they have that "situation" at WR taken care of and have already invested a big chunk there, so now other positions move up on the priority list. Then their number comes up in the draft and there is a WR there who is higher on their board than players at other positions, but because the other positions are considered greater needs maybe they pass on the WR and take a guy at a different position. And then Jennings doesn't pan out. He underperforms his contract while simultaneously sucking up a roster spot and resources. Meanwhile, the guy the Vikings passed on goes to another team and turns into a stud. We've seem similar things happen and quite honestly, if the Vikings are going to make a move on a FA WR this year I'd rather they do it after the draft than before it. I don't want them going into the draft thinking they have *any* position settled. Picks 23 and 25 have to go to selecting talent that can come in and make an impact, or be traded for a player like that. And then, after that has shaken out, go into FA and find solid vets who can man the spots you couldn't address and give you another year and get you to the next draft without forcing you into a bad salary cap situation.

Besides, while nobody wants Ponder to go into next year without a better group of WRs, at the same time who says going into it without an established group is necessarily bad for his development? Maybe what he needs to learn to be a difference-maker is to be forced to become a difference-maker and make the guys around him better than they are rather than vice-versa. Maybe the best way to challenge him is to give him guys he is forced to lead and see if he can step up. He has AD. He knows he will have the running game to take the pressure off the passing game. He's been in the system. Now, maybe what he needs is for the crutches to be kicked out and see if he can stand on his own two feet. I continue to believe it's the QB who makes the receivers more than the receivers who make the QB. Maybe this is what Spielman and Frazier are doing and why the team is standing pat so far with FA WRs.

Purple Jesus wrote:I'd be a little surprised if we signed him. We definitely need a new receiver, but will Jennings make that big of a difference with a completely different QB throwing him balls? Trading Percy sucks and he will be a hard one to replace. I bet we end up just trying to draft WR's or sign some lame ones. I wish we could get Cruz.

I think it would be a huge difference since Jennings would be the best all around receiver that Ponder has ever had to throw to. I think that is the real concern at the moment....we want to see if Ponder is going to be the guy.
Jennings would also serve as a role model for anyone they drafted...like Jenkins but way more useful in the offense.

I'm in the camp that they will pick up a decent vet before the draft.

VikingLord wrote: That's the key for me. Desperation is the *last* reason you want to make a move. I don't want Ponder to go into next year without better WR's, but this is a slippery slope for the team overall because once the team starts overpaying based on immediate issues the downstream effects are always unpleasant, and in many cases force other situations that then increase the overall level of desperation. For example, the Vikes go ahead and sign Jennings for some ridiculous sum of money. They then head into the draft thinking they have that "situation" at WR taken care of and have already invested a big chunk there, so now other positions move up on the priority list. Then their number comes up in the draft and there is a WR there who is higher on their board than players at other positions, but because the other positions are considered greater needs maybe they pass on the WR and take a guy at a different position. And then Jennings doesn't pan out. He underperforms his contract while simultaneously sucking up a roster spot and resources. Meanwhile, the guy the Vikings passed on goes to another team and turns into a stud. We've seem similar things happen and quite honestly, if the Vikings are going to make a move on a FA WR this year I'd rather they do it after the draft than before it. I don't want them going into the draft thinking they have *any* position settled. Picks 23 and 25 have to go to selecting talent that can come in and make an impact, or be traded for a player like that. And then, after that has shaken out, go into FA and find solid vets who can man the spots you couldn't address and give you another year and get you to the next draft without forcing you into a bad salary cap situation.

Besides, while nobody wants Ponder to go into next year without a better group of WRs, at the same time who says going into it without an established group is necessarily bad for his development? Maybe what he needs to learn to be a difference-maker is to be forced to become a difference-maker and make the guys around him better than they are rather than vice-versa. Maybe the best way to challenge him is to give him guys he is forced to lead and see if he can step up. He has AD. He knows he will have the running game to take the pressure off the passing game. He's been in the system. Now, maybe what he needs is for the crutches to be kicked out and see if he can stand on his own two feet. I continue to believe it's the QB who makes the receivers more than the receivers who make the QB. Maybe this is what Spielman and Frazier are doing and why the team is standing pat so far with FA WRs.

All good points and food for thought. But you also need to consider the benefit of having a solid vet to bring young receivers along. Ponder is not the only one who's development is effected by this circumstance.

VikingLord wrote:Besides, while nobody wants Ponder to go into next year without a better group of WRs, at the same time who says going into it without an established group is necessarily bad for his development? Maybe what he needs to learn to be a difference-maker is to be forced to become a difference-maker and make the guys around him better than they are rather than vice-versa. Maybe the best way to challenge him is to give him guys he is forced to lead and see if he can step up. He has AD. He knows he will have the running game to take the pressure off the passing game. He's been in the system. Now, maybe what he needs is for the crutches to be kicked out and see if he can stand on his own two feet. I continue to believe it's the QB who makes the receivers more than the receivers who make the QB. Maybe this is what Spielman and Frazier are doing and why the team is standing pat so far with FA WRs.

Sorry, I don't buy it. I understand the theory but I don't see how you improve as a player (or as an organization) by having worse complementary players. Slower, easier to cover, worse route-runners, more inexperienced, worse hands...seems counter-intuitive. It's like giving Adrian Peterson the worst run-blocking line in the NFL and thinking that's going to help him be more elusive and accumulate more yards.

dead_poet wrote: Sorry, I don't buy it. I understand the theory but I don't see how you improve as a player (or as an organization) by having worse complementary players. Slower, easier to cover, worse route-runners, more inexperienced, worse hands...seems counter-intuitive. It's like giving Adrian Peterson the worst run-blocking line in the NFL and thinking that's going to help him be more elusive and accumulate more yards.

No, but it would prove his greatness because he'd have to overcome it and make those linemen better. Having worse complementary players helps nothing.

Edward, it doesn't matter if it's the QB who makes the receivers more than the receivers who make the QB because no matter how you slice it, they're mutually dependent. They need each other to thrive. The idea that you need to kick the crutches out from under Ponder so he can succeed is ridiculous, especially when you consider he hasn't really had those crutches in the first place! If you want him to thrive, give him the weapons to do so.

Mothman wrote:If you want him to thrive

Key phrase.

You know that Metrodome blade of grass that I hang out with?
Well he has been sleeping with Jenning's mom. He says that she said that Jennings would love to play here because of AD. He also said that she makes the best grilled cheese sandwiches and tomato soup.

Stephen Jackson on his way to ATL.. Signing Jennings gets more complicated.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/90530 ... on-sources

Signing Cassel first was a nice move. Saying he'll have a chance to start is even better. Things are looking up for Jennings if he wants to sign. I am sure he would rather have Cassel throwing him the ball as opposed to Ponder.

really? rather have cassell who has 57 turnovers in 47 games? the guy had a solid offense and was garbage. the ponder hate is just hilarious

TeamChaplain wrote:Signing Cassel first was a nice move. Saying he'll have a chance to start is even better. Things are looking up for Jennings if he wants to sign. I am sure he would rather have Cassel throwing him the ball as opposed to Ponder.

Are you kidding? What makes you think Cassel is any better than Ponder?