Vikings Message Board.Com

Dark wrote:This is just an idea, and I want your guys' take on it. There could be other players involved in the trade, but im just going to list the couple main players.

We give: Harvin. I am not in the club of giving Harvin away, but many of you guys on here want him gone.

We recieve: Kirk Cousins. This guy is a great young QB with a lot of potential. A lot of you guys want us to get someone to compete with ponder, so I thought this guy would be a good man for that job.

I am not implying that I really like this trade. I've based this trade off of what I've read from you guys. Tell me what you think.

If it's a straight up trade I think it's absolutely horrible. Giving up one of the most explosive players in the game for a guy who went in the 4th round last year? Maybe if he led the Redskins to the playoffs like Wilson did for the Seahawks, but he didn't. He played some when RG3 went down but Cousins' body of work is rather small, especially if we're talking about comparing it to Harvin.

nfcnorthchamps25 wrote:I've got a better trade idea. Harvin and a first for Larry Fitzgerald.

You'd think Arizona would consider that deal because they get pretty good value. Id even be willing to throw in more to make it work.
From the Vikings standpoint its a no brainer. Fitz would be a perfect fit in Purple and Gold.

The other angle that makes this viable in theory, is that Fitz is unhappy in AZ, for various reasons. And I'm sure he understands that taking a chance and waiting it out through the next cycle of 3-4 years puts him at the end of his career, and that's if they got it ALL right.

saint33 wrote:Wow, I'm surprised how many of you don't mind this trade! Trading away a proven commodity for a rookie qb who had a few decent games?! Keep in mind cousins was considered to have a very low ceiling coming out of college, viewed as a solid backup. Oh so quickly we forget harvin being an MVP candidate. IMO we'd be hosed in that trade

Hosed would be correct. How many teams find a legit QB via a trade? There's Favre and then........

Brees was a FA, but that was a unique situation.

What about Mallett and a 2nd for Harvin? If he doesn't want to stay. I would not trade him. Anyone have an update on his injury? Surgery or no? I would evaluate his status after he is healed and see where his mind is. If he doesn't want to stay, I am sure there would be teams that would be willing to work out something.

I did say there could be other players involved, and I also said I don't like the trade myself. Jeez guys, calm down.

Dark wrote:I did say there could be other players involved, and I also said I don't like the trade myself. Jeez guys, calm down.

C'mon, you brought up the rumor of a ridiculous trade (which you admit you did not like) and now you want everyone to calm down? It's the off-season.... getting riled up about rumors and speculation is half the fun!

BGM wrote: C'mon, you brought up the rumor of a ridiculous trade (which you admit you did not like) and now you want everyone to calm down? It's the off-season.... getting riled up about rumors and speculation is half the fun!

Sorry, I haven't been on this board for an offseason, so I don't know what to expect.

Dark wrote:This is just an idea, and I want your guys' take on it. There could be other players involved in the trade, but im just going to list the couple main players.

We give: Harvin. I am not in the club of giving Harvin away, but many of you guys on here want him gone.

We recieve: Kirk Cousins. This guy is a great young QB with a lot of potential. A lot of you guys want us to get someone to compete with ponder, so I thought this guy would be a good man for that job.

I am not implying that I really like this trade. I've based this trade off of what I've read from you guys. Tell me what you think.

Sorry man, but that is one of the worst trade proposals I have ever heard of.

Harvin needs to stay. He is too valuable to let go and his value exceeds anything we could get in a trade.

Just get a pick or two. Maybe a Fitzgerald deal if at all possible. Don't need this headache going into next season...and during the looong offseason!

Valhalla wrote:I am happy enough with Ponder but making the playoffs, having AD and a good defense, I don't know who but I can't help but think some players would want to come to the Vikings, maybe a name-quarterback as well. We definitely more back up.

Hopefully a name QB. Since I can think of plenty of WRs that would want nothing to do with this team and the QB we have now. Went through the same thing before with free agent WRs wanting nothing to do with us because of our QB with Tjack!

Demi wrote:Just get a pick or two. Maybe a Fitzgerald deal if at all possible. Don't need this headache going into next season...and during the looong offseason!

Fitzgerald is a good idea. I'd use Harvin as part of a trade for him in a minute.

Even though Fitzgerald will be 30 by the time the season starts, his talent and work ethic make him incredibly valuable even at that age. Not only is he among the best WRs in the game, he'd also bring veteran leadership and a workout-warrior mentality to the team (look at what Sidney Rice accomplished in '09 after spending one summer working out with Fitz). I also believe he'd be an excellent influence on someone like Jarius Wright.

Of course, Minneapolis isn't exactly the mecca of the desert. But it's home for Fitzgerald, and I have to believe he'd love to escape the purgatory of that awful franchise.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fitzgerald is a good idea. I'd use Harvin as part of a trade for him in a minute.

Even though Fitzgerald will be 30 by the time the season starts, his talent and work ethic make him incredibly valuable even at that age. Not only is he among the best WRs in the game, he'd also bring veteran leadership and a workout-warrior mentality to the team (look at what Sidney Rice accomplished in '09 after spending one summer working out with Fitz). I also believe he'd be an excellent influence on someone like Jarius Wright.

Of course, Minneapolis isn't exactly the mecca of the desert. But it's home for Fitzgerald, and I have to believe he'd love to escape the purgatory of that awful franchise.

Other than the influence part (and even that I'm not sure about), didn't you just describe Percy Harvin?

Work ethic - check
Best WR's in the game - check
Veteran - check
Influence - Not sure

Look, I like Fitz, but has major knocks against him

- Older. He's 30. He has a lot of wear on his tires. He's unlikely to get much better over his remaining career
- Limited. He's a WR and that's it. He doesn't return kickoffs, much less effectively. He's not going to line up and provide a running threat or an option threat.
- Huge contact.
- Acquirability (is that a word)? Cards need him, plain and simple, and they're going to want a lot for him. If I'm Spielman, the only way I'd consider trading Harvin to them for Fitz is if the Cards throw in no less than a 2nd rounder to sweeten the deal. And that's the problem - the Cards probably view the trade the exact opposite. They'd probably want Harvin and a 2nd to make the deal. It's just not going to happen.

I still do not understand why Vikings fans would want to part with Harvin, but it doesn't matter. Spielman is not stupid. He knows how valuable Harvin is to the team and unless there is something significant going on behind the scenes that makes it impossible to keep Percy in purple, Percy is going to get a big extension this offseason and the Vikes will look to the draft/FA for WR(s) to complement him.

VikingLord wrote:Other than the influence part (and even that I'm not sure about), didn't you just describe Percy Harvin?

Work ethic - check
Best WR's in the game - check
Veteran - check
Influence - Not sure

Look, I like Fitz, but has major knocks against him

- Older. He's 30. He has a lot of wear on his tires. He's unlikely to get much better over his remaining career
- Limited. He's a WR and that's it. He doesn't return kickoffs, much less effectively. He's not going to line up and provide a running threat or an option threat.
- Huge contact.
- Acquirability (is that a word)? Cards need him, plain and simple, and they're going to want a lot for him. If I'm Spielman, the only way I'd consider trading Harvin to them for Fitz is if the Cards throw in no less than a 2nd rounder to sweeten the deal. And that's the problem - the Cards probably view the trade the exact opposite. They'd probably want Harvin and a 2nd to make the deal. It's just not going to happen.

I still do not understand why Vikings fans would want to part with Harvin, but it doesn't matter. Spielman is not stupid. He knows how valuable Harvin is to the team and unless there is something significant going on behind the scenes that makes it impossible to keep Percy in purple, Percy is going to get a big extension this offseason and the Vikes will look to the draft/FA for WR(s) to complement him.

Totally disagree on the comparison. Larry Fitzgerald and Percy Harvin are vastly different players.

Fitz is a true No. 1 wideout, a 6-3, 225-pound specimen who presents matchup problems for every team he faces. He can move the chains as a possession receiver, out-jump DBs, catch the ball over the middle, get deep, and (oh by the way) run extremely well after the catch. Limited? I think NFL defensive coordinators would laugh at that idea.

Harvin at 5-11 and 185 is not an outside-the-numbers wideout. He's a slot receiver and a specialty player, but not a No. 1. He's explosive, for sure, but he almost never gets deep -- most of his big plays come from YAC. Evidence? His YPC has dropped every single year he's been in the NFL. Among the best playmakers in the game? Sure. Among the best receivers in the game? Hardly.

Also, even if Percy stays, smart money says the coaches will NOT have him return kicks, or at least on a limited basis. And to be honest, I don't want him running the ball from scrimmage. Percy is too small to be taking the pounding.

You mention a big contract. Yes, Fitz's contract is huge. But do you honestly believe Percy Harvin is going to be cheap?

As for influence, I'm not just talking about mentorship. Influence on young players includes, like, actual behavior. The example they set. Percy has a long-running penchant for abusing coaches, and that has continued here in Minnesota. Fitzgerald has been a model of professionalism throughout his career. In fact, I'd say that comparing the behavior of Percy Harvin and Larry Fitzgerald is an insult to Larry Fitzgerald.

Another key for me is the emergence of Jarius Wright late in the season. He has plenty of slot skills. Larry Fitzgerald with Jarius Wright in the slot makes the Vikings a better TEAM than some yet-to-be-named wideout with Percy Harvin in the slot. YMMV.

Rg3 is going to be out a good chunk of next year most likely so they are going to want to hold on to Cousins and then he can also show as an audition of how he could potentially play in the future.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fitz is a true No. 1 wideout, a 6-3, 225-pound specimen who presents matchup problems for every team he faces. He can move the chains as a possession receiver, out-jump DBs, catch the ball over the middle, get deep, and (oh by the way) run extremely well after the catch. Limited? I think NFL defensive coordinators would laugh at that idea.

Limited in the sense that he is only a WR. In that role, he is not limited as you note.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Harvin at 5-11 and 185 is not an outside-the-numbers wideout. He's a slot receiver and a specialty player, but not a No. 1. He's explosive, for sure, but he almost never gets deep -- most of his big plays come from YAC. Evidence? His YPC has dropped every single year he's been in the NFL. Among the best playmakers in the game? Sure. Among the best receivers in the game? Hardly.

I have to disagree with you on that point. Harvin led the NFL in catches and yards after contact when he went out due to injury. He was the only receiving threat on a team with an offense designed to emphasize the run.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Also, even if Percy stays, smart money says the coaches will NOT have him return kicks, or at least on a limited basis. And to be honest, I don't want him running the ball from scrimmage. Percy is too small to be taking the pounding.

Where did you hear this?

J. Kapp 11 wrote: You mention a big contract. Yes, Fitz's contract is huge. But do you honestly believe Percy Harvin is going to be cheap?

I don't expect a top multiple threat entering the prime of his career to come cheap, no.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: As for influence, I'm not just talking about mentorship. Influence on young players includes, like, actual behavior. The example they set. Percy has a long-running penchant for abusing coaches, and that has continued here in Minnesota. Fitzgerald has been a model of professionalism throughout his career. In fact, I'd say that comparing the behavior of Percy Harvin and Larry Fitzgerald is an insult to Larry Fitzgerald.

Well, once again, I'm not really sure any of what you're saying here can be supported by more than allegations in regards to Harvin. As for Fitz, no doubt he's an upstanding citizen and role model. Unfortunately, he's an upstanding citizen and role model under contract with the Arizona Cardinals.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Another key for me is the emergence of Jarius Wright late in the season. He has plenty of slot skills. Larry Fitzgerald with Jarius Wright in the slot makes the Vikings a better TEAM than some yet-to-be-named wideout with Percy Harvin in the slot. YMMV.

Wright and Harvin are different talents. Wright is a slot receiver taken in the 4th round. He has some ability to get deep and has potential to grow into a more substantial role, but he lacks Harvin's explosiveness and toughness. Wright next to Fitz might be an effective combo, but so might Wright next to Harvin.

I know what you're driving at. The Vikes need a true #1. Fitz would be a wet dream in that role for the Vikes given that need. But it's just not going to happen. The Cards aren't going to put Fitz up for trade and even if they did, it would cost the Vikes or another team a king's ransom to get him. Desperation drives moves like these and I for one am glad that Spielman has declared he will take the patient approach. Harvin is what the Vikings have and spent a #1 pick on. He's a young player entering the prime of his career. He's effective and can be part of a 1-2 punch with AD even if the Vikings don't have a dominant #1 WR on the field. Plus, there are other options, both in FA and the draft, where Spielman can land an effective possession-type WR to complement the other players on offense.