Manti T'eo

[PurpleKoolaid]

Ogletree is perfect for it (or will be after a solid year or two in a pro strength and conditioning program and assuming he works hard to reach his potential).

Arthur Brown would be a great fit as well. A little on the small side and I would be worried about his durability, but if the Vikes can pick up a nose like John Jenkins of Georgia in the 2nd I would be a lot less concerned about Brown's long-term health.

Teo, Minter, et. al., all would be replaceable pieces in this defense. I just don't see any of them thriving or becoming difference-makers as pros.

OK il bite, why would Brown thrive and Tea, who many still think is a top 25 pick LB, not? In this D or just any 4-3.

[saint33]

Idk where this "Te'o is a bad fit for our defense" thought comes from, when in reality every respectable analyst I've listened to say he's an "ideal" fit for a Tampa 2 defense, considering he's far better in zone coverage than man.

[Mothman]

Idk where this "Te'o is a bad fit for our defense" thought comes from, when in reality every respectable analyst I've listened to say he's an "ideal" fit for a Tampa 2 defense, considering he's far better in zone coverage than man.

There's concern that he can't handle the deep drops against TEs and/or slot receivers.

[saint33]

There's concern that he can't handle the deep drops against TEs and/or slot receivers.

I don't agree with that analysis. He would struggle cover a TE/Slot in man coverage, especially on a deeper route. But in a cover 2, his responsibility is to get to a spot and cover underneath the deep route while the safety has to come over the top. I don't see that as an issue for him, and again, haven't heard any draft analyst that I actually consider respectable mention any concerns with his ability to play in zone coverage.

[Mothman]

I don't agree with that analysis. He would struggle cover a TE/Slot in man coverage, especially on a deeper route. But in a cover 2, his responsibility is to get to a spot and cover underneath the deep route while the safety has to come over the top.

Exactly. I said basically the same thing somewhere here on the board (I don't think it was in this thread) and like you, I don't think his coverage ability is likely to be a big issue. That's not to say he won't ever get beat but I doubt he'd be a liability. He still strikes me as the MLB in this draft with the best overall combination of skills and intangibles.

I don't see that as an issue for him, and again, haven't heard any draft analyst that I actually consider respectable mention any concerns with his ability to play in zone coverage.

I haven't either and I don't think any LB is going to do great if repeatedly put in man coverage against athletic TEs and slot receivers.

[PurpleKoolaid]

There's concern that he can't handle the deep drops against TEs and/or slot receivers.

And how many of our current LBs can? None. They cant even handle the 5 yard passes right in front of them. So Teo should fit right in.

[PurpleKoolaid]

I dont really even want Teo (except over Olgetree, simply because he has no self control), I just dont want us to pass over who may be the best LB avilable because he cant cover deep balls.

[VikingLord]

OK il bite, why would Brown thrive and Tea, who many still think is a top 25 pick LB, not? In this D or just any 4-3.

Because Brown can run and change directions more rapidly. Brown ran a 4.6 at the Combine. Teo ran a 4.8. Granted, Teo improved slightly on that time at Notre Dame's pro day, but I think his fastest time there was 4.71.

Most of the MLBs in this draft are what I consider solid "box" defenders. Line them up 5-7 yards behind the tackles and don't ask them to do much deeper than around 15 yards deep and 10 yards outside the offensive tackles and they will thrive. But that's not how I understand the MLB's role in a Tampa 2. In the Tampa 2 the MLB sometimes has to get very deep and run down the field with slot receivers and very athletic tight ends, not to mention sometimes get to the edges on swing passes. While recognition and experience can help a guy do that to some degree, in the NFL speed kills. I don't know how many times we've watched big plays completed where it appeared the MLB was in coverage down the field. If offensive coordinators think they can get plays deep against the MLB, they're going to target him that way, and there are 3 QBs in the NFC North alone that have had, and will have, a field day throwing over the middle if they can exploit that weakness.

So Teo, Minter, and most of the MLB's in this draft would not thrive in a Tampa 2 because in a Tampa 2 more will be asked of them than to just play in that box. Ogletree and Brown have the speed and agility to play effectively outside it in the pros. That would be true of any defense that requires its MLB to cover deeper than 15 yards.

As it stands, I will be extremely surprised if Teo goes in the 1st round, and would not be surprised at all to see him slip to the late 2nd or even early 3rd. Shocking, I know.

[saint33]

Because Brown can run and change directions more rapidly. Brown ran a 4.6 at the Combine. Teo ran a 4.8. Granted, Teo improved slightly on that time at Notre Dame's pro day, but I think his fastest time there was 4.71.

Most of the MLBs in this draft are what I consider solid "box" defenders. Line them up 5-7 yards behind the tackles and don't ask them to do much deeper than around 15 yards deep and 10 yards outside the offensive tackles and they will thrive. But that's not how I understand the MLB's role in a Tampa 2. In the Tampa 2 the MLB sometimes has to get very deep and run down the field with slot receivers and very athletic tight ends, not to mention sometimes get to the edges on swing passes. While recognition and experience can help a guy do that to some degree, in the NFL speed kills. I don't know how many times we've watched big plays completed where it appeared the MLB was in coverage down the field. If offensive coordinators think they can get plays deep against the MLB, they're going to target him that way, and there are 3 QBs in the NFC North alone that have had, and will have, a field day throwing over the middle if they can exploit that weakness.

So Teo, Minter, and most of the MLB's in this draft would not thrive in a Tampa 2 because in a Tampa 2 more will be asked of them than to just play in that box. Ogletree and Brown have the speed and agility to play effectively outside it in the pros. That would be true of any defense that requires its MLB to cover deeper than 15 yards.

As it stands, I will be extremely surprised if Teo goes in the 1st round, and would not be surprised at all to see him slip to the late 2nd or even early 3rd. Shocking, I know.

want to have a gentleman's bet on that? Nothing of real value, just for the fun of it. I personally don't expect him to make it out of the 1st round, and would guarantee he doesn't make it of the top 40 picks. But would be willing to set the bet at first round vs. not first round

[Mothman]

Most of the MLBs in this draft are what I consider solid "box" defenders. Line them up 5-7 yards behind the tackles and don't ask them to do much deeper than around 15 yards deep and 10 yards outside the offensive tackles and they will thrive. But that's not how I understand the MLB's role in a Tampa 2. In the Tampa 2 the MLB sometimes has to get very deep and run down the field with slot receivers and very athletic tight ends, not to mention sometimes get to the edges on swing passes. While recognition and experience can help a guy do that to some degree, in the NFL speed kills. I don't know how many times we've watched big plays completed where it appeared the MLB was in coverage down the field. If offensive coordinators think they can get plays deep against the MLB, they're going to target him that way, and there are 3 QBs in the NFC North alone that have had, and will have, a field day throwing over the middle if they can exploit that weakness.

It sounds like you're describing the MLB's role in the Cover 2 a little more than in the Tampa 2 and they're not quite the same. The Cover 2 would often require the MLB to man up against a TE or slot receiver (the "Y" receivers). In the Tampa 2 variation, the MLB's role is a little different. He reads run or pass and either drops or fills accordingly. If the MLB reads pass, he drops deeper into his zone. He still has to read the Y receiver's route but he's not in man coverage. If the route is underneath, he moves up to cover and tackle. If the route is vertical, he plays underneath/inside the route and the safety is supposed to cover over the top. On some of those plays where, as you said, it appeared the MLB was in coverage down the field, the MLB was in coverage but was probably playing underneath the route, which is what he's supposed to do. That makes it more difficult for the QB to fit throw over him and if the safety does his job and gets there over the top, the route shouldn't be successful unless a receiver makes a great catch between the two.

Of course, sometimes the MLB was undoubtedly just getting beat.

So Teo, Minter, and most of the MLB's in this draft would not thrive in a Tampa 2 because in a Tampa 2 more will be asked of them than to just play in that box. Ogletree and Brown have the speed and agility to play effectively outside it in the pros.

Yes, they do but the potential problem with them lies in their ability to hold up against the run. They're both fast-but-undersized players. There's no ideal, Urlacher-esque MLB to plug into the Tampa 2 available to the Vikes in this draft.

As it stands, I will be extremely surprised if Teo goes in the 1st round, and would not be surprised at all to see him slip to the late 2nd or even early 3rd. Shocking, I know.

Do you keep saying it to be shocking because you can't really believe that he'll fall into R3, can you? Unless some new and terrible scandal breaks in the next few weeks or Te'o suffers a catastrophic injury prior to the draft, here's no way the most decorated LB in college football history is falling into the 3rd round. It's not going to happen.

[dead_poet]

Stayed an extra day after the Top 30 event, apparently ... MT @JFowlerCBS: Saw Te'o in O'Hare today. Was coming from #Vikings

Tom Pelissero on Twitter

[Demi]

Give him EJ or Brinkleys jersey and probably won't even be able to tell the difference.

[VikingLord]

Do you keep saying it to be shocking because you can't really believe that he'll fall into R3, can you? Unless some new and terrible scandal breaks in the next few weeks or Te'o suffers a catastrophic injury prior to the draft, here's no way the most decorated LB in college football history is falling into the 3rd round. It's not going to happen.

You mean you don't believe that I believe what I believe?

Unbelievable...



As far as Teo is concerned, his college awards don't mean much to me. Gino Toretta won the Heisman and couldn't make it as a backup QB in the NFL. Tim Tebow was decorated in college and while he was taken in the 1st round, he hasn't turned into a starting QB in the NFL.

[VikingLord]

want to have a gentleman's bet on that? Nothing of real value, just for the fun of it. I personally don't expect him to make it out of the 1st round, and would guarantee he doesn't make it of the top 40 picks. But would be willing to set the bet at first round vs. not first round

Sure, what do you have in mind?

[Mothman]

You mean you don't believe that I believe what I believe?

Unbelievable...

LOL!

As far as Teo is concerned, his college awards don't mean much to me. Gino Toretta won the Heisman and couldn't make it as a backup QB in the NFL. Tim Tebow was decorated in college and while he was taken in the 1st round, he hasn't turned into a starting QB in the NFL.

I can understand that. College awards certainly don't mean automatic pro success. My point was just that a linebacker with his resumé isn't going to fall to round 3. We're not talking about Gino Torretta here.