Vikings Message Board.Com

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:59 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:52 am
All this stuff starting coming out about Cousins CAP hit of 45 million I thought you can't pay him 45 million. He's not making 45 million. This is a smoke and mirrors number. We could post any number for the CAP hit. Matt Ryan's cap hit is 13.6 mi;;ion. That's BS he's making alot more than that. I guess the CAP hit comes at the end and it will be 200 million or something. You can make any player on our team look extremely over paid just by doing this CAP magic BS. Cousins makes 35 million without the magic or slap stick CAP drip applied. How does this idiot Brez survive this mess. He's a stupid CAP guy. So when people say Cousins sucks because of the hit are wrong. Move the hit to Smith. He had nothing to do with the hit. I'm sure many will blame Cousins for that thug CB Speilman picked who is costing CAP and doing nothing. That will be a 5 year hit. Unless they do magic and push it in Cousins basket then his hit will be 70 million. Then people will #### about that. People should stop saying CAP it's a phantom number. Make it what ever you want like the Falcons do with Ryan.

You’re right. Kirk will not be making $45 million in 2022. He will be making his salary, which is $35 million. His bonus for signing his extension was $20 million … he received every penny of that bonus the moment he put pen to paper. The NFL allows teams to spread the bonus over the life of the contract for purposes of the cap. In Cousins’ case, that’s a $20 million bonus divided by 2 years, which is $10 million a year. Add the $10 million to his $35 million salary, and his cap hit for 2022 is $45 million.

This isn’t difficult. It’s not magic, and it’s not BS. The salary cap is the same for every team. It’s there to promote competitive balance. Without it, the teams with the most money would get all the best players.

CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:05 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:59 am
You’re right. Kirk will not be making $45 million in 2022. He will be making his salary, which is $35 million. His bonus for signing his extension was $20 million … he received every penny of that bonus the moment he put pen to paper. The NFL allows teams to spread the bonus over the life of the contract for purposes of the cap. In Cousins’ case, that’s a $20 million bonus divided by 2 years, which is $10 million a year. Add the $10 million to his $35 million salary, and his cap hit for 2022 is $45 million.

This isn’t difficult. It’s not magic, and it’s not BS. The salary cap is the same for every team. It’s there to promote competitive balance. Without it, the teams with the most money would get all the best players.

Right now the Saints are 75 million over the CAP. I know it's not magic but I call it that. In a snap of the finger it will change and they will be under the CAP. You have an accounting background mine is in IT. On the surface they need to cut a bunch of players. But they will do whatever a capo person does and out of nowhere they will be OK. That's magic to me but I'm sure they are throwing numbers around and doesn't mean anything when it comes down to keeping or losing players. You can put any tag you feel like on it my tag is magic. If a team wants to keep a player they will keep him. Give a player a thousand year extension and place the CAP hit at the end. Then like magic he's free for 900 years. Teams share plenty of money equally like TV contracts. I'm sure there is other local stuff that they put in their pocket. For the Wilf's the money for a beer they keep. The Saints have always managed the CAP and I remember they were over 100 million one year and then they were fine the next day. They have an entire team working on this stuff. I don't know every in and out and I don't really care. Nobody posting here knows the details. I'm sure the CAP guide document is a book. If they want to dump Cousins they can easily. That 45 million means nothing. Same with the Packers if they would like to dump MVP back to back and in the future winner Rodgers they could. The team getting him will start tossing numbers around. The Saints kept one of the biggest loser QBs in history around forever. They always found the coin somehow and also added players. Right now the Chiefs have a highly paid CAP/Salary QB and sign anybody they feel like. They give one OG 18 million a year. Yes they let PP go but he sucks at this point. Smart move by them. We are the team throwing CAP and or salary at him. Dumb move by us again. Everyone says the CAP is simple but it depends on how far down into the details you get. No poster knows that stuff unless they have the guide books. Which I doubt they do.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:01 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:05 am
Right now the Saints are 75 million over the CAP. I know it's not magic but I call it that. In a snap of the finger it will change and they will be under the CAP. You have an accounting background mine is in IT. On the surface they need to cut a bunch of players. But they will do whatever a capo person does and out of nowhere they will be OK. That's magic to me but I'm sure they are throwing numbers around and doesn't mean anything when it comes down to keeping or losing players. You can put any tag you feel like on it my tag is magic. If a team wants to keep a player they will keep him. Give a player a thousand year extension and place the CAP hit at the end. Then like magic he's free for 900 years. Teams share plenty of money equally like TV contracts. I'm sure there is other local stuff that they put in their pocket. For the Wilf's the money for a beer they keep. The Saints have always managed the CAP and I remember they were over 100 million one year and then they were fine the next day. They have an entire team working on this stuff. I don't know every in and out and I don't really care. Nobody posting here knows the details. I'm sure the CAP guide document is a book. If they want to dump Cousins they can easily. That 45 million means nothing. Same with the Packers if they would like to dump MVP back to back and in the future winner Rodgers they could. The team getting him will start tossing numbers around. The Saints kept one of the biggest loser QBs in history around forever. They always found the coin somehow and also added players. Right now the Chiefs have a highly paid CAP/Salary QB and sign anybody they feel like. They give one OG 18 million a year. Yes they let PP go but he sucks at this point. Smart move by them. We are the team throwing CAP and or salary at him. Dumb move by us again. Everyone says the CAP is simple but it depends on how far down into the details you get. No poster knows that stuff unless they have the guide books. Which I doubt they do.

Sorry man, I didn’t mean to be a jerk. And I’m not an accountant. My wife is, but not me. Maybe a little rubs off, but I’m no money whiz.

Some of the things these guys like Brez do … yeah, it can seem like magic. But in the end, it comes down to one simple concept. How are you going to divide up the dollars you have? You do it every day in your own house.

I’m glad you bring up the Saints. Teams like that, all they’re doing with this cap magic is pushing the cap hit down the road. But it’s fiscally irresponsible. It’s like taking out a new credit card to pay off another card you’ve maxed out. But just like for all of us, the bill eventually comes due. They’ll have to pay the piper, and it won’t be pretty. Sean Payton is a jerk, but he’s no dummy. That team has been spiraling for two years, and with their cap situation, it’s not going to get better. He saw what was coming, and he got out.

The situation the Vikings are in is nowhere near as bad as the Saints. At $11 million over the cap, the Vikings can still get out from under it and get back to where they can have cap space to acquire players. But it’s going to require some difficult decisions. It may mean they cut players like Barr and Pierce, or trade some popular players with big cap hits who can still play, such as Kendricks or Thielen. And it’s going to require a smart decision on Kirk Cousins. None of us knows what that is yet, but we will soon.

Smart teams manage the cap well. What we as Vikings fans should hope is that Kwesi is better at it than Rick was … or the Saints are.

CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:07 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:01 pm
Sorry man, I didn’t mean to be a jerk. And I’m not an accountant. My wife is, but not me. Maybe a little rubs off, but I’m no money whiz.

Some of the things these guys like Brez do … yeah, it can seem like magic. But in the end, it comes down to one simple concept. How are you going to divide up the dollars you have? You do it every day in your own house.

I’m glad you bring up the Saints. Teams like that, all they’re doing with this cap magic is pushing the cap hit down the road. But it’s fiscally irresponsible. It’s like taking out a new credit card to pay off another card you’ve maxed out. But just like for all of us, the bill eventually comes due. They’ll have to pay the piper, and it won’t be pretty. Sean Payton is a jerk, but he’s no dummy. That team has been spiraling for two years, and with their cap situation, it’s not going to get better. He saw what was coming, and he got out.

The situation the Vikings are in is nowhere near as bad as the Saints. At $11 million over the cap, the Vikings can still get out from under it and get back to where they can have cap space to acquire players. But it’s going to require some difficult decisions. It may mean they cut players like Barr and Pierce, or trade some popular players with big cap hits who can still play, such as Kendricks or Thielen. And it’s going to require a smart decision on Kirk Cousins. None of us knows what that is yet, but we will soon.

Smart teams manage the cap well. What we as Vikings fans should hope is that Kwesi is better at it than Rick was … or the Saints are.

You're not a jerk. Your a lifetime fan that would like to see a Super Bowl while you are still capable of seeing it and comprehending it. We all have opinions which makes the board fun entertainment. We all can go off on our own tangents and it happens to most if not all people who post on here. It's the nature of the beast. IMO we need to keep Cousins. He's one of few good players we have on this team. If we bring in a bridge or as I call it a bum QB few fans will be happy. Especially the people who are paying top dollar to watch the game live. They want entertainment which means having a guy that can throw the ball well. Those type of guys are hard to find and as a team we have been kicking over every rock to find that long term solution. No luck forever. Too make matters worse we need to watch our biggest rival bask in the sun with HOF guy after HOF guy. Those fans don't know how lucky they are. Some hope they dump Rodgers. The last Viking game I seen live was the Les Steckle year when we played the Eagles in Philly. In the beginning that looked like a start of a new beginning. Young gun replacing the old grizzly master. It didn't work and back to Jerry. They had some great seasons especially the year we lost to the Skins in the Champ. That was the best year for me. That was a great young team with plenty of talent on both sides of the ball. But as usual we lacked a top flight QB. But Wilson looked like a guy who had developed and could throw the ball well. I liked him alot. He could also pick up yards with his feet unlike Tommy. That also gets me mad when people say Kirk can't move. I've seen him run for yardage. He's not Boddy Douglass but nobody is. Even the Lamar guys of today can't move like that guy and that was ages ago. Hopefully this new guy has a plan and can get this team straight. Hopefully that plan includes a good QB who can throw the ball. If not we have no chance.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:19 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:07 pm
You're not a jerk. Your a lifetime fan that would like to see a Super Bowl while you are still capable of seeing it and comprehending it. We all have opinions which makes the board fun entertainment. We all can go off on our own tangents and it happens to most if not all people who post on here. It's the nature of the beast. IMO we need to keep Cousins. He's one of few good players we have on this team. If we bring in a bridge or as I call it a bum QB few fans will be happy. Especially the people who are paying top dollar to watch the game live. They want entertainment which means having a guy that can throw the ball well. Those type of guys are hard to find and as a team we have been kicking over every rock to find that long term solution. No luck forever. Too make matters worse we need to watch our biggest rival bask in the sun with HOF guy after HOF guy. Those fans don't know how lucky they are. Some hope they dump Rodgers. The last Viking game I seen live was the Les Steckle year when we played the Eagles in Philly. In the beginning that looked like a start of a new beginning. Young gun replacing the old grizzly master. It didn't work and back to Jerry. They had some great seasons especially the year we lost to the Skins in the Champ. That was the best year for me. That was a great young team with plenty of talent on both sides of the ball. But as usual we lacked a top flight QB. But Wilson looked like a guy who had developed and could throw the ball well. I liked him alot. He could also pick up yards with his feet unlike Tommy. That also gets me mad when people say Kirk can't move. I've seen him run for yardage. He's not Boddy Douglass but nobody is. Even the Lamar guys of today can't move like that guy and that was ages ago. Hopefully this new guy has a plan and can get this team straight. Hopefully that plan includes a good QB who can throw the ball. If not we have no chance.

Yeah, that’s what I mean by a “smart decision” about Kirk Cousins.

As I’ve said over and over, I’m not a Cousins hater. I just hate that cap hit. We can’t build the roster with his contract where it is. If the Vikings can find a way to make it work, I think there’s a chance that KOC can get production out of him that is similar to what the Rams got out of Matthew Stafford. After all, statistically and by advanced metrics, they were practically the same quarterback for many years. Stafford has way more fourth-quarter comebacks, but when you play with a terrible team like the Lions, you’re going to be behind a lot in the fourth quarter … hence more opportunities to come back. But by and large, they’re practically the same guy.

They just can’t keep Cousins at $45 million. They’ll either trade him or restructure him. Of that I have no doubt.

CharVike wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 1:52 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:19 pm
Yeah, that’s what I mean by a “smart decision” about Kirk Cousins.

As I’ve said over and over, I’m not a Cousins hater. I just hate that cap hit. We can’t build the roster with his contract where it is. If the Vikings can find a way to make it work, I think there’s a chance that KOC can get production out of him that is similar to what the Rams got out of Matthew Stafford. After all, statistically and by advanced metrics, they were practically the same quarterback for many years. Stafford has way more fourth-quarter comebacks, but when you play with a terrible team like the Lions, you’re going to be behind a lot in the fourth quarter … hence more opportunities to come back. But by and large, they’re practically the same guy.

They just can’t keep Cousins at $45 million. They’ll either trade him or restructure him. Of that I have no doubt.

The CAP hit does impact the roster but IMO what impacts our roster the most is bad draft picks. If you can't draft well you are done. We have picked some bums who are still on the roster. Those stiffs need to be cut. They can't stay on the team sucking CAP and providing zero. Bradbury drains CAP and he sucks. Why is he still here? We don't even have a body behind him except some bum Cole that we traded for. He's not a starter level player. Gladney he is still sucking CAP and is done. It goes on and on. The Pats won't pay outrageous salaries for OL and let them walk. They have bodies to plug in. They have depth. I can't think of a good player that we let walk because we couldn't pay them. We paid Hunter, O'neil, Smith ect.... What we got from those 3 and the contract is another argument. We signed guys in FA. DTs, S, CBs, OL ect. Did we get the expected return for dollars spent. No. Wasted CAP again. Others may feel they were great signings and lifted our team to new highs. I didn't see it. Building your team through FA never works. If it did no teams would draft players. They would trade all there picks for established players and sign guys to fill the roster. FA is full of guys that their teams didn't want. In other words they are not good players. Teams keep the good ones just like we do. When JJ is due we will sign him if he wants to be here. If we plug in bum QBs who have no accuracy he might tells us to go F yourself. I'm tired of jumping for balls. I need my health also. See ya. If we had a stacked roster and guys were jumping off because we had no money I could agree with your problem.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:37 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 1:52 am
The CAP hit does impact the roster but IMO what impacts our roster the most is bad draft picks. If you can't draft well you are done. We have picked some bums who are still on the roster. Those stiffs need to be cut. They can't stay on the team sucking CAP and providing zero. Bradbury drains CAP and he sucks. Why is he still here? We don't even have a body behind him except some bum Cole that we traded for. He's not a starter level player. Gladney he is still sucking CAP and is done. It goes on and on. The Pats won't pay outrageous salaries for OL and let them walk. They have bodies to plug in. They have depth. I can't think of a good player that we let walk because we couldn't pay them. We paid Hunter, O'neil, Smith ect.... What we got from those 3 and the contract is another argument. We signed guys in FA. DTs, S, CBs, OL ect. Did we get the expected return for dollars spent. No. Wasted CAP again. Others may feel they were great signings and lifted our team to new highs. I didn't see it. Building your team through FA never works. If it did no teams would draft players. They would trade all there picks for established players and sign guys to fill the roster. FA is full of guys that their teams didn't want. In other words they are not good players. Teams keep the good ones just like we do. When JJ is due we will sign him if he wants to be here. If we plug in bum QBs who have no accuracy he might tells us to go F yourself. I'm tired of jumping for balls. I need my health also. See ya. If we had a stacked roster and guys were jumping off because we had no money I could agree with your problem.

It’s not my problem. Guys aren’t jumping off because Rick paid everybody and kicked the cap hit down the road. Now those guys are aging, and we’re at a point where trading them is the only way to get cap relief and acquire draft picks.

Cousins won’t take $45 million in cap space next year. That doesn’t mean he’ll be gone, but if he won’t agree to a restructure, he’ll be traded. Kwesi is not dumb. Even if you’re willing to absorb such a ridiculous cap hit, you can’t have a $45 million QB who can walk after the season and leave you nothing in return.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:37 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 1:52 am
The CAP hit does impact the roster but IMO what impacts our roster the most is bad draft picks. If you can't draft well you are done. We have picked some bums who are still on the roster. Those stiffs need to be cut. They can't stay on the team sucking CAP and providing zero. Bradbury drains CAP and he sucks. Why is he still here? We don't even have a body behind him except some bum Cole that we traded for. He's not a starter level player. Gladney he is still sucking CAP and is done. It goes on and on. The Pats won't pay outrageous salaries for OL and let them walk. They have bodies to plug in. They have depth. I can't think of a good player that we let walk because we couldn't pay them. We paid Hunter, O'neil, Smith ect.... What we got from those 3 and the contract is another argument. We signed guys in FA. DTs, S, CBs, OL ect. Did we get the expected return for dollars spent. No. Wasted CAP again. Others may feel they were great signings and lifted our team to new highs. I didn't see it. Building your team through FA never works. If it did no teams would draft players. They would trade all there picks for established players and sign guys to fill the roster. FA is full of guys that their teams didn't want. In other words they are not good players. Teams keep the good ones just like we do. When JJ is due we will sign him if he wants to be here. If we plug in bum QBs who have no accuracy he might tells us to go F yourself. I'm tired of jumping for balls. I need my health also. See ya. If we had a stacked roster and guys were jumping off because we had no money I could agree with your problem.

It’s not my problem. Guys aren’t jumping off because Rick paid everybody and kicked the cap hit down the road. Now those guys are aging, and we’re at a point where trading them is the only way to get cap relief and acquire draft picks.

Cousins won’t take $45 million in cap space next year. That doesn’t mean he’ll be gone, but if he won’t agree to a restructure, he’ll be traded. Kwesi is not dumb. Even if you’re willing to absorb such a ridiculous cap hit, you can’t have a $45 million QB who can walk after the season and leave you nothing in return.

You mention O’Neill, Smith, Hunter … I’ll add Pierce, Barr, Tomlinson, Thielen, Cook and Kendricks. Every one of these guys carries a cap hit north of $7.5 million. There are going to be decisions made on all of them. Barr can be let go with no dead cap. He’s as good as gone. Thielen is due to count $16 million against the cap. We all love Adam, but put the sentiments aside. That’s too much for a 32-year-old No. 2 receiver. My guess he’ll be restructured or traded. Dalvin Cook at $13 million … that’s a lot for a running back, but he’s not likely to be traded because his trade value is low. Danielle Hunter is another story. His $26 million cap hit is enormous, and he’d bring a first-rounder in a trade. Don’t be surprised if the Vikings consider moving him. Same with Harrison Smith. Same with Kendricks. I’m not saying they’ll all be traded. But I’d lay money that some will.

We all have to get our heads around something. They aren’t bringing in a completely new front office and coaching staff just so they can run it back with all the same old guys who didn’t make the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years. So brace yourself. There are going to be moves. You and I may not like saying goodbye to some of these guys, but if you want to build through the draft, this is how you do it.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 8:10 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:37 am
It’s not my problem. Guys aren’t jumping off because Rick paid everybody and kicked the cap hit down the road. Now those guys are aging, and we’re at a point where trading them is the only way to get cap relief and acquire draft picks.

Cousins won’t take $45 million in cap space next year. That doesn’t mean he’ll be gone, but if he won’t agree to a restructure, he’ll be traded. Kwesi is not dumb. Even if you’re willing to absorb such a ridiculous cap hit, you can’t have a $45 million QB who can walk after the season and leave you nothing in return.

I have to agree with Charvike here. Unless he is traded, that 45 million will 100% count against the Vikings cap and will not play any part in the decision to extend Cousins. There are multiple ways to push cap hits down the road without an extension, including adding void years to Cousins' contract, so an extension to save cap is not necessary. In fact, an extension of Cousins actually limits what the Vikings can do this year more, since we will have less money next year to push cap hits too.

Cousins will be extended if KAM feels he is worth having one of the worst cap situations in the NFL for the next 2-3 years, not to save cap. With Cousins being very unsuccessful so far in his time in MN under the previous regime, it makes more sense to me to not extend him, creating this exact same situation in 2024, and instead wait and see how he does under the current coach and extend him after the season if he does well.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 8:10 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:37 am
It’s not my problem. Guys aren’t jumping off because Rick paid everybody and kicked the cap hit down the road. Now those guys are aging, and we’re at a point where trading them is the only way to get cap relief and acquire draft picks.

Cousins won’t take $45 million in cap space next year. That doesn’t mean he’ll be gone, but if he won’t agree to a restructure, he’ll be traded. Kwesi is not dumb. Even if you’re willing to absorb such a ridiculous cap hit, you can’t have a $45 million QB who can walk after the season and leave you nothing in return.

I have to agree with Charvike here. Unless he is traded, that 45 million will 100% count against the Vikings cap and will not play any part in the decision to extend Cousins. There are multiple ways to push cap hits down the road without an extension, including adding void years to Cousins' contract, so an extension to save cap is not necessary. In fact, an extension of Cousins actually limits what the Vikings can do this year more, since we will have less money next year to push cap hits too.

Cousins will be extended if KAM feels he is worth having one of the worst cap situations in the NFL for the next 2-3 years, not to save cap. With Cousins being very unsuccessful so far in his time in MN under the previous regime, it makes more sense to me to not extend him, creating this exact same situation in 2024, and instead wait and see how he does under the current coach and extend him after the season if he does well.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:25 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 8:10 am

I have to agree with Charvike here. Unless he is traded, that 45 million will 100% count against the Vikings cap and will not play any part in the decision to extend Cousins. There are multiple ways to push cap hits down the road without an extension, including adding void years to Cousins' contract, so an extension to save cap is not necessary. In fact, an extension of Cousins actually limits what the Vikings can do this year more, since we will have less money next year to push cap hits too.

Cousins will be extended if KAM feels he is worth having one of the worst cap situations in the NFL for the next 2-3 years, not to save cap. With Cousins being very unsuccessful so far in his time in MN under the previous regime, it makes more sense to me to not extend him, creating this exact same situation in 2024, and instead wait and see how he does under the current coach and extend him after the season if he does well.

The problem with extending him after the season if he does well is there is nothing to extend. He's a 100% free agent if I understand things correctly. During or before the season Cousins gains protection against injury with an extension.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 8:10 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:37 am
It’s not my problem. Guys aren’t jumping off because Rick paid everybody and kicked the cap hit down the road. Now those guys are aging, and we’re at a point where trading them is the only way to get cap relief and acquire draft picks.

Cousins won’t take $45 million in cap space next year. That doesn’t mean he’ll be gone, but if he won’t agree to a restructure, he’ll be traded. Kwesi is not dumb. Even if you’re willing to absorb such a ridiculous cap hit, you can’t have a $45 million QB who can walk after the season and leave you nothing in return.

I have to agree with Charvike here. Unless he is traded, that 45 million will 100% count against the Vikings cap and will not play any part in the decision to extend Cousins. There are multiple ways to push cap hits down the road without an extension, including adding void years to Cousins' contract, so an extension to save cap is not necessary. In fact, an extension of Cousins actually limits what the Vikings can do this year more, since we will have less money next year to push cap hits too.

Cousins will be extended if KAM feels he is worth having one of the worst cap situations in the NFL for the next 2-3 years, not to save cap. With Cousins being very unsuccessful so far in his time in MN under the previous regime, it makes more sense to me to not extend him, creating this exact same situation in 2024, and instead wait and see how he does under the current coach and extend him after the season if he does well.