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I think we fail to realize how far we are from a chip. We aren't close. We have a good team but we are long in the tooth and our players outside of a few are not game-changers. Defensively, we have spent all this capital and draft picks for an above average defense.

We have 1 game-changer on the DL, 1 game changer at LB and 2 in the secondary.
Very hard to compete against a 49ers who have 3 on the DL, 2 at the LB and 1 in the secondary.
This defense needs to be broken down and stripped.

Keep Hunter, Keep Kendricks, Keep Smith and Harris.
Everyone else can go and need to be replaced over a 1 or 2 year period.

On offense, the Oline should be the priority. Reiff needs to go with his 13 million.
Rudy should have never been resigned. His cap figure is absurd. SIgn Trent Williams. Draft a guard and pray for improvement of Samia to push Kline for playing.

Cousins should be shown the door after his contract. We should hope that one of the big 2 Qbs fall to us. I am hoping that TUA is still out there at 20 and we trade up and select him. It seems the teams that take chances are the ones that are successful. This roster building with 6 7th rounders is not working.

Mothman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:54 am

VikingPaul73 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:29 am I agree Moth, I just don't see it happening this offseason. The best we can realistically hope for is for the Wilf's to at least signal that they're getting antsy, but I doubt we we will even see that. They have their new stadium, which is packed because Vikings are a competitive (but not elite) team.

I worry about that last part. The Wilfs could easily be complacent.

I'm keeping an eye on contracts. Zimmer, Spielman and Cousins are all signed through this year. If none of them receive extensions, I'm going to (perhaps optimistically) see that as an indication that the Wilfs are antsy and will seriously consider replacing all three in 2021 if they aren't happy with their performance next season.

The Wilfs are running this as a business. They are long time Giant fans. From the business side they want to make money first. Don't get me wrong winning the Super Bowl would be a feather in their CAP. Our team made the playoffs. That's hard to do. They are selling tickets and have a new stadium. They are letting Speilman run this thing. I'm not saying Cousins is the best in the game but we have a guy that is much better than any QB Zim has had. Just look at the numbers. He was 500 in the playoffs. Won a road game as an underdog. They could say the hell with this team don't spend too much CAP we want that money. Be thankful that they don't. I've said all this before. We are a step behind the top teams and IMO our D needs more talent.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:38 pm I think we fail to realize how far we are from a chip. We aren't close. We have a good team but we are long in the tooth and our players outside of a few are not game-changers. Defensively, we have spent all this capital and draft picks for an above average defense.

We have 1 game-changer on the DL, 1 game changer at LB and 2 in the secondary.
Very hard to compete against a 49ers who have 3 on the DL, 2 at the LB and 1 in the secondary.
This defense needs to be broken down and stripped.

Keep Hunter, Keep Kendricks, Keep Smith and Harris.
Everyone else can go and need to be replaced over a 1 or 2 year period.

On offense, the Oline should be the priority. Reiff needs to go with his 13 million.
Rudy should have never been resigned. His cap figure is absurd. SIgn Trent Williams. Draft a guard and pray for improvement of Samia to push Kline for playing.

Cousins should be shown the door after his contract. We should hope that one of the big 2 Qbs fall to us. I am hoping that TUA is still out there at 20 and we trade up and select him. It seems the teams that take chances are the ones that are successful. This roster building with 6 7th rounders is not working.

So you would trade up for an injured guy? Then you want to build on hope. What is success to you? We made the playoffs and won a game. Is that not success. If winning a Super Bowl is a success then we have never had success even with a HOF QB. The best chance to get an elite QB is to tank a season. Of course you can get a guy later but it becomes much more difficult. Don't hope for something that's the worse way to look at it. Grap is considered a great QB. I seen him against us today and I didn't see great. I seen a guy that threw some bad passes. IMO he's no Rodgers but is good enough if he has a team around him. It's another Cousins. To you it's hope and pry. How about a plan. Can't that work?

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:51 pm The Vikings have a really good team. They don't need a superstar QB. Any average/above average QB could do what Cousins did this year (not stat wise but win 10 games on this team).

That is false. Not with this defense. You're saying that because you're living in the past with Keenum. I have another buddy saying the same thing. Keenum had the NUMBER ONE defense in the NFL. Cousins had the 14th ranked defense in the NFL and guys have said before on here that the 2017 was MUCH better than what this defense was this year. You cant just plug in an average Joe QB an win 10 games with this team. You could've done that in 2017 with that defense. Keenum did it and he was less than an average Joe.

The difference is they need a QB that knows how to move in the pocket, extend plays, take risks, run for 1st downs once in a while, put pressure on the defense. I thought the defense was fine for the most part but just got worn down. Injuries in the secondary really hurt the run support and redzone defense too. They just needed help from the offense.

I'm starting to wonder if you watched the same Vikings team we all did this year. This was one of the worst defense Zim has had in a very long time and the worst since he's been here. Not saying they were awful but they were average. Far from "fine". I dont think these injuries in the secondary hurt the run support? Our best run stopping DB was Waynes by far and he was healthy all year. And they held up fine vs NO without Hughes or Alexander. The only thing I will give this defense is they played well towards the end of the season (LAC, GB, NO) and then crapped again vs SF. They didnt get "worn down", if anything they played much better at the end of the year.

Oh, he's a headcase. Thinks too much. Apologizes to Thielen. Late on reads. Diggs said to Cousins "Don't feel like you gotta force s— to me all right? Play your game!" I think even the players know he's weak minded.

lol I'm almost 100% positive that Diggs said that because he threw a tantrum in that Saints game and didnt want Cousins to think he was pissed at him. Diggs even said it was because of the coverage he was drawing, not anyone on the team.

No he's not. He's a statue sitting in a pocket. A pocket passer knows how to move in the pocket, subtle movements to buy time, help his OL, knows when to get out, or step up. Cousins is not a pocket passer. He's a QB that has to follow a script.

He's a pocket passer! Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Rivers, etc. dont "get out of the pocket" because they arent running QBs no different than Cousins. They are pocket passers. You see what happens to Brees, Brady, Ryan, etc. when their OL craps the bed. Just look at our game vs. the Saints.

I think you just made my case why the Vikings need a better QB. Cousins limits this team. Everything revolves around Cook for him to play well. Vikings need a QB that can create , extend, take chances, anything to put pressure on the other team when other parts aren't working.

That is also 100% false. Cook didnt do much of anything in the following games: Chargers, Eagles, Broncos and Seahawks and those were all games Cousins played well in.

I don't know much about Jimmy but Tannehill is athletic, can scramble, and has shown good pocket awareness. The Titans OL was ranked almost at the bottom in the league when Mariotta was playing (28th). A week after he was benched, they were ranked 14th. End of the season they were ranked 8th. An example of how one QB can put pressure on an OL while another QB can help an OL.

The Titans have elite tackles in Conklin and Lewan. Ben Jones was one of the better centers in the NFL this year. Saffold was overpaid IMO but still good enough when you're surrounded by good players. The only guy on our entire line that could compete with anything the Titans have up front is O'Neill. The two lines arent even comparable. Plus Mariota is just a downright bad NFL QB. He has been for a few years now.

And please dont even start with Tannehill. Talk about a guy that relies on what his RB does. Go look at the games Henry struggled in and Tannehill was the starter....losses. Go look when he dominated the game....they won. In two playoff games, he's thrown for 72 yards and 88 yards. 160 passing yards in TWO GAMES!! Under a 54% completion percentage. He's completed 15, yes 15 passes in TWO GAMES!! If anyone can find a way to stop Henry, this team is SO far gone it's not even funny. But Henry is simply a man picking on boys. But using Tannehill couldnt have been a worse example to use on your part. The example simply proved your argument false. When Henry blows up they win and when he doesnt they lose. I just named 4 games where Cook did next to nothing and the QB carried the weight. Tannehill has not once done that.

I don't think I do. Yes, a missed block or assignment puts pressure on Cousins. But Cousins sitting in the pocket, not moving, not stepping up, not getting rid of the ball puts pressure on the OL . I think it's simple. A stationary target is much easier to attack than a moving target. And it's not like he's slow. He's pretty athletic. He just does not have pocket presence, he never did. My opinion of course.

Here's the problem, you keep saying "stepping up". Our two worst pass blockers BY FAR are Bradbury and Elflein. Not only do they get beat but they often get beat right off the snap. This is why I have said all year long that rolling Cousins out was key. They were doing this for a reason. This interior cannot pass block. Kline is decent. The other two are downright horrendous. Luckily Bradbury's run blocking saves him some but he is a horrendous pass blocker. From the center to the left (Bradbury, Elflein and Reiff) has to one of the worst if not THE worst pass blocking trio in the NFL. Because Bradbury and Elflein are already bad pass blockers and when Reiff is playing bad, it's BAD. So essentially he has 0 help from 3 of his 5 offensive lineman. If he steps up, more often than not, he's going to get killed. Even Stump, who hates on Cousins more than anyone on this board, said Elflein is a massive liability.

My argument is even if the Vikings do upgrade the OL, or the secondary, or the interior DL. There will still come times when the OL gets hurt or struggles, or the defense allows points, or the running game isn't working. What then? Throw in the towel? Cousins has shown he's dependent on a lot of things going right to be effective. He puts a lot of pressure on other parts of the team instead of making it easier.

Every player is going to have their bad games. Even the best in the business struggle. Look at Rodgers vs. SF. You thought Cousins was bad, Rodgers was horrendous vs. SF and has a much better OL AND scrambles. Deshaun Watson, a scrambling QB with a bad OL cant win a playoff game outside of the Bills, takes sacks non-stop, etc. If you think the QB is going to save you every time something breaks down is just unrealistic. Cousins has saved us in games where things have broke down but it's not going to happen every time we need it to. That's just football.

Not me. I've been singing the same tune about Cousins the entire season. Even when he was putting up good stats, a lot of it was due to YAC on screens. He rarely went downfield, couldn't buy time, rarely showed pocket awareness. I'd compliment him on a great play, but he never once showed he can be 'that guy'. I still stand by what I've been saying all year. This is a really good team. Sucks that 3 starters in the secondary didn't play today. But better QB play in a few of the losses this season and the Vikings could have been hosting the playoffs this year, maybe even won today.

Dude come on. Hardly went downfield? Cousins was #1 in longest completed air distance in the NFL. Cousins went down the field often. We were one of the best if not THE best deep passing team in the NFL. He was the #9 in 20+ completions and #5 in 40+ completions.

And for you to think that "better QB play" would have helped us win vs. SF baffles me. Again, we wouldnt have been where we were if it wasnt for Cousins. We wouldnt have beat the Saints if it wasnt for Cousins clutch passes in OT. We had 10 wins this year, probably 11 given we lost to the Bears by 2 with backups in. It just kills me that you're complaining about the QB that got us to 10 (probably 11 wins) this year saying he's the problem. You're sadly missing so much more it's not even funny.

Maybe I am delusional thinking a QB can make such an impact on a team. I don't know what the answer is but I do know extending Cousins is not the answer.

I vote delusional. Sure you could sit here and say "if we had Mahomes we'd be better". It's easy to say now when you know he's a top QB in the NFL. But Kirk Cousins is a top 10 QB in the NFL. And I can tell you that if we had the #1 defense in the NFL like 2017, we'd have more wins as well. But we didnt and the defense is doing nothing but going backwards at this point. They hit their peak and now heading in the wrong direction unless we find ways to fix it. Everyone on the team could've been better in their own way and we would have a better record. But it's not just one guy. It's the whole team and the whole team showed it's potential vs. NO but flopped vs. SF and I think it starts with the OL. When you run for 21 yards with one of the best RBs in the NFL and struggle in pass protection, you arent going to win, I dont care who's at QB. On the road no less. Are you going to tell me the Titans are going to win vs KC if Henry has 21 yards rushing? Would they have beat NE or Baltimore if Henry had 21 yards rushing. Not a damn chance in hell. It starts there.

CharVike wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:59 pm

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:38 pm I think we fail to realize how far we are from a chip. We aren't close. We have a good team but we are long in the tooth and our players outside of a few are not game-changers. Defensively, we have spent all this capital and draft picks for an above average defense.

We have 1 game-changer on the DL, 1 game changer at LB and 2 in the secondary.
Very hard to compete against a 49ers who have 3 on the DL, 2 at the LB and 1 in the secondary.
This defense needs to be broken down and stripped.

Keep Hunter, Keep Kendricks, Keep Smith and Harris.
Everyone else can go and need to be replaced over a 1 or 2 year period.

On offense, the Oline should be the priority. Reiff needs to go with his 13 million.
Rudy should have never been resigned. His cap figure is absurd. SIgn Trent Williams. Draft a guard and pray for improvement of Samia to push Kline for playing.

Cousins should be shown the door after his contract. We should hope that one of the big 2 Qbs fall to us. I am hoping that TUA is still out there at 20 and we trade up and select him. It seems the teams that take chances are the ones that are successful. This roster building with 6 7th rounders is not working.

So you would trade up for an injured guy? Then you want to build on hope. What is success to you? We made the playoffs and won a game. Is that not success. If winning a Super Bowl is a success then we have never had success even with a HOF QB. The best chance to get an elite QB is to tank a season. Of course you can get a guy later but it becomes much more difficult. Don't hope for something that's the worse way to look at it. Grap is considered a great QB. I seen him against us today and I didn't see great. I seen a guy that threw some bad passes. IMO he's no Rodgers but is good enough if he has a team around him. It's another Cousins. To you it's hope and pry. How about a plan. Can't that work?

Who considers Garoppolo a great QB?

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:08 pm The one thing I didn't mention in my summary, Sendejo did not play well in that game. Not really a shot at him, he was playing out of position, I am just shocked Hill or Boyd couldn't have done better.

Agreed. Sendejo did not play well. Thought he played well in that role vs. NO. But was not good vs. SF. I wish they would play Hill more but I think Zim has a bug up his as# about him after he got suspended.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:44 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:05 pm To summarize since people probably won't get through that:

Defense struggled from the start, did step up at the end of the game, but didn't do enough to win.

Offense was horrible outside of one drive. The biggest issue by far was not the QB, was not the pass blocking, it was the inability to run the football. Then it was probably the QB next, pass blocking after that. I have no idea if the play calling was bad, I can tell for certain the execution of the plays was terrible.

I read through it, and you told the story of the game. The Vikings simply couldn't run the ball on offense, and couldn't stop the run on defense. The 49ers didn't play particularly well on offense overall. I thought Jimmy G struggled quite a bit and could have committed a few more turnovers that he got away with, but the push they consistently got in the run game and the ability of the 49er RBs to consistently cut back and pick up 4+ yards on early downs was too much and the Vikings couldn't find an adjustment to stop that.

The Vikings were once again held to a measly 7 first downs for an entire game and had no answers to that, either. For all of the talent at the skill positions that this team has it is stunningly easy to make it one-dimensional. I agree with you, Stump, that the pass protection was quite good for most of the game as I think the 49ers made a concerted decision to limit the run ala what the Packers did the 2nd time they beat the Vikings. I can't put it all on Cousins, but when a pro defense decides to basically sell out to take away a particular aspect of a pro offense, that pro offense has to be able to counter with the other aspect. The Vikings couldn't do that, and that is not the first (or last) time I think we'll see that happen without some substantial changes to the personnel of this team and the overall approach.

More than anything, I thought the 49ers were simply fresh. They had the extra time off while the Vikings were on a short week and it showed. The 49ers are already a very good team, but that advantage proved ultimately decisive in this game.

As far as the potential for real changes at GM, among the coaching staff, or in players, I think the major changes we'll see this offseason are with players. The Vikings are hard up against the cap and have some hard decisions to make in terms of retaining veteran players. There will be some vets, even key guys, who won't be back due to simple economics. Cousins likely won't be one of them, though, and for those who aren't enthused about the way he plays the best we can hope for is that the Vikings find a mid-round gem at QB in the upcoming draft that can be ready when Cousins' contract finally expires.

I don't see the Wilfs making major changes at GM or coaches. If there are coaching changes, it will be from other teams pilfering and not because the Wilfs decide to go in a different direction. The team made the playoffs this year and won down in New Orleans, and the short week against a very good, rested team on the road most likely excuses enough that the Wilfs will stay the course there. That isn't much comfort for those of us who believe the pattern has to change for any real progress to be made towards getting the Vikings back to the Superbowl, but that is what I expect to happen.

Overall, the season was decent. The team under-performed in terms of overall record compared to overall talent IMHO, but that probably balances out what happened in 2017 when they over-performed. Where they go next year is anyone's guess. There are some promising younger players on the team that are developing nicely or that look like they could develop. They really do need some "moxie", though, both in terms of coaching and players. They need more of the "you like that?" Cousins, and they need more of that from pretty much everyone on the team.

Should be an interesting offseason.

To the 49ers fans who came here to share their perspectives, you are class acts and I appreciate fans of other teams who treat others with respect. I can't say I wish the 49ers luck as at this point I'll be pulling for the remaining NFC North team in the playoffs, but I will say that the 49ers have been impressive all season. There are some teams that are loaded with stars and rely on those stars to perform in order to win (e.g. Lamar Jackson...). There are other teams that are full of talented players who don't seem to want to stand out individually, but who play with and for their teammates. They define the word "team", and those groups are rare at the pro level of most sports. This year's 49ers squad is one of the latter teams. They have stars, but nobody wants to be the hero per se. They're going to be very hard to beat for that reason, just as they've been all year. Impressive group that has a very good chance of hosting another Lombardi trophy.

The 49ers are a much more rounded team than us. When your D shuts down the rum completely you will win. Plus that secondary has some great players. Sherman is shut down. Diggs missed one because the safety made a play. I think we lack talent right now. We are a wildcard talent team. Not bad but certainly not great. We beat a division winner on the road. Our team played OT and didn't get the rest. That saint game was a ####. We were banged up big time. Playing this Sendejo is embarrassing. Plus traveling to the west coast. That;s a tall order.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:02 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:59 pm
So you would trade up for an injured guy? Then you want to build on hope. What is success to you? We made the playoffs and won a game. Is that not success. If winning a Super Bowl is a success then we have never had success even with a HOF QB. The best chance to get an elite QB is to tank a season. Of course you can get a guy later but it becomes much more difficult. Don't hope for something that's the worse way to look at it. Grap is considered a great QB. I seen him against us today and I didn't see great. I seen a guy that threw some bad passes. IMO he's no Rodgers but is good enough if he has a team around him. It's another Cousins. To you it's hope and pry. How about a plan. Can't that work?

Who considers Garoppolo a great QB?

The media. If the 48ers get in a position to make this guy do it they will have major problems. He can't carry them. What I saw against a banged up and tired D wasn't impressive.

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:48 am

VikingLord wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:44 pm

I read through it, and you told the story of the game. The Vikings simply couldn't run the ball on offense, and couldn't stop the run on defense. The 49ers didn't play particularly well on offense overall. I thought Jimmy G struggled quite a bit and could have committed a few more turnovers that he got away with, but the push they consistently got in the run game and the ability of the 49er RBs to consistently cut back and pick up 4+ yards on early downs was too much and the Vikings couldn't find an adjustment to stop that.

The Vikings were once again held to a measly 7 first downs for an entire game and had no answers to that, either. For all of the talent at the skill positions that this team has it is stunningly easy to make it one-dimensional. I agree with you, Stump, that the pass protection was quite good for most of the game as I think the 49ers made a concerted decision to limit the run ala what the Packers did the 2nd time they beat the Vikings. I can't put it all on Cousins, but when a pro defense decides to basically sell out to take away a particular aspect of a pro offense, that pro offense has to be able to counter with the other aspect. The Vikings couldn't do that, and that is not the first (or last) time I think we'll see that happen without some substantial changes to the personnel of this team and the overall approach.

More than anything, I thought the 49ers were simply fresh. They had the extra time off while the Vikings were on a short week and it showed. The 49ers are already a very good team, but that advantage proved ultimately decisive in this game.

As far as the potential for real changes at GM, among the coaching staff, or in players, I think the major changes we'll see this offseason are with players. The Vikings are hard up against the cap and have some hard decisions to make in terms of retaining veteran players. There will be some vets, even key guys, who won't be back due to simple economics. Cousins likely won't be one of them, though, and for those who aren't enthused about the way he plays the best we can hope for is that the Vikings find a mid-round gem at QB in the upcoming draft that can be ready when Cousins' contract finally expires.

I don't see the Wilfs making major changes at GM or coaches. If there are coaching changes, it will be from other teams pilfering and not because the Wilfs decide to go in a different direction. The team made the playoffs this year and won down in New Orleans, and the short week against a very good, rested team on the road most likely excuses enough that the Wilfs will stay the course there. That isn't much comfort for those of us who believe the pattern has to change for any real progress to be made towards getting the Vikings back to the Superbowl, but that is what I expect to happen.

Overall, the season was decent. The team under-performed in terms of overall record compared to overall talent IMHO, but that probably balances out what happened in 2017 when they over-performed. Where they go next year is anyone's guess. There are some promising younger players on the team that are developing nicely or that look like they could develop. They really do need some "moxie", though, both in terms of coaching and players. They need more of the "you like that?" Cousins, and they need more of that from pretty much everyone on the team.

Should be an interesting offseason.

To the 49ers fans who came here to share their perspectives, you are class acts and I appreciate fans of other teams who treat others with respect. I can't say I wish the 49ers luck as at this point I'll be pulling for the remaining NFC North team in the playoffs, but I will say that the 49ers have been impressive all season. There are some teams that are loaded with stars and rely on those stars to perform in order to win (e.g. Lamar Jackson...). There are other teams that are full of talented players who don't seem to want to stand out individually, but who play with and for their teammates. They define the word "team", and those groups are rare at the pro level of most sports. This year's 49ers squad is one of the latter teams. They have stars, but nobody wants to be the hero per se. They're going to be very hard to beat for that reason, just as they've been all year. Impressive group that has a very good chance of hosting another Lombardi trophy.

The 49ers are a much more rounded team than us. When your D shuts down the rum completely you will win. Plus that secondary has some great players. Sherman is shut down. Diggs missed one because the safety made a play. I think we lack talent right now. We are a wildcard talent team. Not bad but certainly not great. We beat a division winner on the road. Our team played OT and didn't get the rest. That saint game was a ####. We were banged up big time. Playing this Sendejo is embarrassing. Plus traveling to the west coast. That;s a tall order.

Seattle came really close to winning with no run game last night. KC RBs ran for less than 50 in their blowout.

Some teams can have their run game shutdown and still find success on offense, ours can't.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:08 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:48 am
The 49ers are a much more rounded team than us. When your D shuts down the rum completely you will win. Plus that secondary has some great players. Sherman is shut down. Diggs missed one because the safety made a play. I think we lack talent right now. We are a wildcard talent team. Not bad but certainly not great. We beat a division winner on the road. Our team played OT and didn't get the rest. That saint game was a ####. We were banged up big time. Playing this Sendejo is embarrassing. Plus traveling to the west coast. That;s a tall order.

Seattle came really close to winning with no run game last night. KC RBs ran for less than 50 in their blowout.

Some teams can have their run game shutdown and still find success on offense, ours can't.

KC doubled our ground game. They run the Reid O. They were up by 20 or 30 and still throwing. That's a rub in. Looking for records. Houston had given up and the Cheifs poured salt in the wound. They ran great. It wasn't 2 yards a pop. Coming close isn't a win. The hawks were blasted. They got some scores when it was over. They needed that right off the bat and couldn't do it. It was a snooze fest. I saw the Pack open with a heavy dose of Jones. Since I've been watching I haven't seen too many teams have the ground game stuffed and win. We had 20 yards. Any idea how bad that is? Is it possible? Yes it is.

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:48 am The 49ers are a much more rounded team than us. When your D shuts down the rum completely you will win. Plus that secondary has some great players. Sherman is shut down. Diggs missed one because the safety made a play. I think we lack talent right now. We are a wildcard talent team. Not bad but certainly not great. We beat a division winner on the road. Our team played OT and didn't get the rest. That saint game was a ####. We were banged up big time. Playing this Sendejo is embarrassing. Plus traveling to the west coast. That;s a tall order.

I think it was more rest than talent. I mean, the Vikings starters were rested before playing the Saints who many thought were every bit as talented as the 49ers and the Vikings managed to stay with that team and eventually beat them. 6 days later they have to go play a team every bit as talented as the Saints and that opponent has had 2 weeks of rest.

The Titans beat the Ravens in much the same situation, so that isn't an excuse necessarily for getting blown out like the Vikings did, but I don't buy the talent argument.

Sendejo has always been inconsistent. I think that's why the Vikings let him go in the first place, but to his credit he played well against the Saints. Also, he's on the field due to injuries to other players, so it's hard to lay blame for him being out there as much as he was on the coaches, either. They knew they had a likely weak spot and did their best to scheme out of it. It worked well against the Saints and not so well against the 49ers.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:08 am Seattle came really close to winning with no run game last night. KC RBs ran for less than 50 in their blowout.

Some teams can have their run game shutdown and still find success on offense, ours can't.

There is no question in my opinion that the Vikings need to be on the lookout for a QB in this upcoming draft. I don't think Cousins is going anywhere next year, but Spielman should be looking for the diamond in this year's QB draft class.

If the Vikings extend Cousins I will probably stop watching. I don't think he's necessarily the reason they lose, but there is more than enough evidence to suggest he's rarely going to be the reason they win. He might pull out a few here and there, but the chances he'll sustain that, especially against the better teams and at this point in his career, is just north of zero.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:37 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:08 am Seattle came really close to winning with no run game last night. KC RBs ran for less than 50 in their blowout.

Some teams can have their run game shutdown and still find success on offense, ours can't.

There is no question in my opinion that the Vikings need to be on the lookout for a QB in this upcoming draft. I don't think Cousins is going anywhere next year, but Spielman should be looking for the diamond in this year's QB draft class.

If the Vikings extend Cousins I will probably stop watching. I don't think he's necessarily the reason they lose, but there is more than enough evidence to suggest he's rarely going to be the reason they win. He might pull out a few here and there, but the chances he'll sustain that, especially against the better teams and at this point in his career, is just north of zero.

I'm in a similar spot. I am contemplating ditching the Sunday ticket. I just don't have the hope that we're heading in the right direction. It feels like next season is ripe for a step back towards mediocrity, after which the Wilfs will finally make the changes they should be making now. My cynical side says, "In 2-3 years, this team will have major turnover and look very, very different". OTOH, we have some solid leadership on this team and some players I really love. I can imagine ditching the ticket now and then changing my mind come August.

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:51 pm

TSonn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:12 pm The offensive line is a bigger problem than Kirk and should be easier to fix than trying to find a superstar QB to offset a bad offensive line. But none of that probably matters as long as Zimmer is our coach and giving opponents clear blueprints on how to beat his defense.

The Vikings have a really good team. They don't need a superstar QB. Any average/above average QB could do what Cousins did this year (not stat wise but win 10 games on this team). The difference is they need a QB that knows how to move in the pocket, extend plays, take risks, run for 1st downs once in a while, put pressure on the defense. I thought the defense was fine for the most part but just got worn down. Injuries in the secondary really hurt the run support and redzone defense too. They just needed help from the offense.

VikeFanInEagleLand wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:07 pm Very well said. I'm not sure I would go as far as to say he's a headcase...

Oh, he's a headcase. Thinks too much. Apologizes to Thielen. Late on reads. Diggs said to Cousins "Don't feel like you gotta force s— to me all right? Play your game!" I think even the players know he's weak minded.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:35 pm Cousins is a fricken pocket QB.

No he's not. He's a statue sitting in a pocket. A pocket passer knows how to move in the pocket, subtle movements to buy time, help his OL, knows when to get out, or step up. Cousins is not a pocket passer. He's a QB that has to follow a script.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:35 pm It all starts with balance. The fact that cook couldn’t get going causes a ton a 3rd and longs which isn’t good for any QB. Second, with cook being shut down, that eliminates our bread and butter (play action and rollouts), we then become one dimensional which is never good for any team. When you get into these situations and rollouts don’t work, screens don’t work, running in general doesn’t work, you are forced to do one thing and one thing only, sit BEHIND a bad pass blocking OL against the best front 4 and best pass defense in the nfl and try to pick them apart. Good fuc#ing luck. I can tell you there are few that can pull that off.

I think you just made my case why the Vikings need a better QB. Cousins limits this team. Everything revolves around Cook for him to play well. Vikings need a QB that can create , extend, take chances, anything to put pressure on the other team when other parts aren't working.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:25 pm I don't think Kirk Cousins is the problem. Some cite his lack of mobility. Jimmy G is a pocket passer ... he's in the NFCC Game. Ryan Tannehill is a pocket passer ... he's likely going to be in the AFCC Game. But those teams have excellent O-lines. We don't. Many times, our O-line was dominated, especially on the interior.

I don't know much about Jimmy but Tannehill is athletic, can scramble, and has shown good pocket awareness. The Titans OL was ranked almost at the bottom in the league when Mariotta was playing (28th). A week after he was benched, they were ranked 14th. End of the season they were ranked 8th. An example of how one QB can put pressure on an OL while another QB can help an OL.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:42 pm Did you really just say Cousins puts so much pressure on the OL? Dude....pretty sure you have that one completely backwards..

I don't think I do. Yes, a missed block or assignment puts pressure on Cousins. But Cousins sitting in the pocket, not moving, not stepping up, not getting rid of the ball puts pressure on the OL . I think it's simple. A stationary target is much easier to attack than a moving target. And it's not like he's slow. He's pretty athletic. He just does not have pocket presence, he never did. My opinion of course.

VikeFanInEagleLand wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:16 am I do agree with what was said earlier. He isn't our number one concern. It should be much easier to make improvements in the OL for example than it would be to find a better QB, but to say that the QB position is no concern is being very shortsighted. He's good enough for now, but I wouldn't stop looking for an upgrade.

My argument is even if the Vikings do upgrade the OL, or the secondary, or the interior DL. There will still come times when the OL gets hurt or struggles, or the defense allows points, or the running game isn't working. What then? Throw in the towel? Cousins has shown he's dependent on a lot of things going right to be effective. He puts a lot of pressure on other parts of the team instead of making it easier.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:34 am This is every win, every loss, every season. We win, everyone is happy, everyone is great. We lose, everyone needs to be fired, Cousins blows, time to rebuild, etc. That's how this board is.

Not me. I've been singing the same tune about Cousins the entire season. Even when he was putting up good stats, a lot of it was due to YAC on screens. He rarely went downfield, couldn't buy time, rarely showed pocket awareness. I'd compliment him on a great play, but he never once showed he can be 'that guy'. I still stand by what I've been saying all year. This is a really good team. Sucks that 3 starters in the secondary didn't play today. But better QB play in a few of the losses this season and the Vikings could have been hosting the playoffs this year, maybe even won today.



Maybe I am delusional thinking a QB can make such an impact on a team. I don't know what the answer is but I do know extending Cousins is not the answer.

You aren't delusional.

I don't think most reasonable fans of the QB would disagree with you about Cousins limitations. Where they appear to have differing opinions, is with expectations.

I believe the difference between people who like Cousins as a Viking QB and those who don't, isn't really a disagreement on how good Cousins is. It is a disagreement about whether how good he is is good enough.

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:56 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:02 pm

Who considers Garoppolo a great QB?

The media. If the 48ers get in a position to make this guy do it they will have major problems. He can't carry them. What I saw against a banged up and tired D wasn't impressive.

I havent seen anyone in the media that claimed he was great