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That is probably more likely realistically...dead_poet wrote:I'm thinking this is more likely (as it stands today but FA/draft will have a big impact):
LT: Kalil, Shepherd, Bykowski
LG: Boone, Kerin
C: Sullivan, Berger, Easton
RG: Fusco, Harris
RT: Loadholt, Smith (if signed), Clemmings
This line-up looks good on paper. Good as any other. Hopefully Loadgrader will be most of his former self. The draft will be interesting to see how and what unfolds for the Vikings.dead_poet wrote:I'm thinking this is more likely (as it stands today but FA/draft will have a big impact):
LT: Kalil, Shepherd, Bykowski
LG: Boone, Kerin
C: Sullivan, Berger, Easton
RG: Fusco, Harris
RT: Loadholt, Smith (if signed), Clemmings
...“A lot of the stuff we tried to do this year was accumulate as many of these young guys as we can and keep as many as we can,” Spielman said before the NFL scouting combine last month. “I’m always going to try to keep shuffling these offensive linemen in.
“Last year, I know Carter Bykowski got hurt with his pec, but we got him off San Francisco’s practice squad. To me, if you can just keep flinging through here — Mike Harris was a claim guy when he got released from San Diego — so you got to constantly turn that position over and constantly keep finding the right combination of guys.”
Lastly, on whether one can have TOO MANY players at OL:Center, right guard and right tackle are clearly up for grabs.
“Oh yeah,” Spielman said. “That’s what I want.”
At this early point of the offseason, center could go to Sullivan, who played well in 2014; Berger, who filled in and was the team’s best lineman in 2015; or long shots Kerin or Nick Easton. At right guard, there’s presumed front-runner Brandon Fusco, a former right guard who struggled at left guard last year; Harris, the former tackle who started at right guard last year; and Austin Shepherd, an extra blocker in short-yardage situations last year. At right tackle, there’s Loadholt; T.J. Clemmings, who started but struggled as the starter there last year; Bykowski and, of course, Smith if he were to sign with the Vikings.
Then there’s the draft.
“We also want to bring in some rookies,” Spielman said. “Hopefully, they’ll be able to contribute like our past rookie draft classes have been able to.”
More (seriously“Some of those guys, you can possibly trade because you know they can play for other teams,” Spielman said. “And you can’t predict injuries. If you have quality people and two or three players fighting for a starting spot, if you lose guys for the year, you have quality depth behind them.
“When you come down to having to make those 53-man decisions, you want to have very tough decisions to make.”
) at link:I think it would be a very good sign if a couple of the veterans end up traded or cut. I'm not saying they should do it just to get younger, but if they keep the best 8 or 9, it would be great for the Vikings if that included some players like Shepherd, Bykowski, Easton, or Sirles, who played well enough to beat out players like Kalil, Sullivan, and Loadholt and Smith. Similarly, if someone can't beat out Clemmings he's either improved a lot during the offseason or this line is going to suck again.CbusVikesFan wrote: This line-up looks good on paper. Good as any other. Hopefully Loadgrader will be most of his former self. The draft will be interesting to see how and what unfolds for the Vikings.
I think the first part of his statement is true and competition on the roster is a good thing (how about applying that philosophy a little more at quarterback, Rick?) but creating competition alone doesn't mean the team gets better. The quality of the players competing makes a difference too. For example, if Fusco and Harris compete for a spot and one of them wins but doesn't play any better than he did last year, the net result is not improvement for the team. It just means somebody won the competition.“If you create competition, either guys are going to rise up or get beat out,” Spielman said Thursday on KFAN radio while discussing the acquisition of guard Alex Boone, the team’s No. 1 target in free agency. “That means you got better.”
Agreed, those players at the top of their game are mediocre anyway, not much upside out of that line. Sparano is still the wild card in all of this though hopefully, he'd get more out of them...fiestavike wrote: Should we trot Kalil, Boone, Sullivan, Fusco and Loadholt out there, I'll be worried.
... and then some. It really does look like they want competition, which is good.halfgiz wrote:To date we have only added one new player and looks it looks like they're intent on bringing everyone from last year back again.
This is where I think the draft becomes a key because if they play their cards right (and have a little luck) they should be able add more heat to the competition they're creating by bringing in some top-notch young talent.I thought we would have a few more new names. Hope Tony can get them performing.
I am worried that Stanley, Tunsil, Decker, and Conklin will all be gone by 23. The next range, Ihedi, Spriggs, will probably be gone by Rd 2 pick. They should be able to add some strong interior players as there seem to be a bunch of them, but help at T might be hard to get without reaching.Mothman wrote:
This is where I think the draft becomes a key because if they play their cards right (and have a little luck) they should be able add more heat to the competition they're creating by bringing in some top-notch young talent.
Jim my only concern is If you have all this competition do we have anyone of quality?? Or just mediocre players just trying to fill a spot.Mothman wrote:
... and then some. It really does look like they want competition, which is good.
Yeah, I share your opinion. I found it an interesting read because (ostensibly) Spielman reveals his thinking on how to fix our most obvious problem. I agree with you: how he drafts will tell me just how serious he is when he says "quality people". The approach thus far has seemed more about quantity than quality, IMO. They seem reluctant to truly invest in the position. They did sign Boone, so there's that. But at some other positions they seem content to throw a few mediocre options in the cauldron of competition and see who rises to the surface.Mothman wrote:Thanks for the link, Texas Vike. What's your take on Spielman's comments?
Here's one more quote from the article:
I think the first part of his statement is true and competition on the roster is a good thing (how about applying that philosophy a little more at quarterback, Rick?) but creating competition alone doesn't mean the team gets better. The quality of the players competing makes a difference too. For example, if Fusco and Harris compete for a spot and one of them wins but doesn't play any better than he did last year, the net result is not improvement for the team. It just means somebody won the competition.
Spielman said " If you have quality people and two or three players fighting for a starting spot, if you lose guys for the year, you have quality depth behind them" but again, that's only true if we're talking about good players in the first place. I assume when he said "quality people" he meant "quality players" but his talk about accumulating young players and continually "shuffling these offensive linemen in" almost makes it sound like he thinks he can solve the Vikes long-standing OL issues by just throwing players at the problem. His approach has yielded years of inconsistent-to-poor o-line play and with the exception of Boone, he's bringing back the usual suspects and pursuing a player like Andre Smith who, as Dead_Poet has pointed out, hasn't been good the last two years. It will be interesting to see just what Spielman means when he says "We also want to bring in some rookies". Is he planning to bring in the usual group of mid-to-late round o-lineman and rookie FAs and hope that someone form this pack of players he's assembling proves to be a genuine find or is he aiming higher than that?
I don't think this is any great mystery, the team had a lot of problems and they spent their picks how they saw fit to most improve the team. When a lineman happened to be the best pick they took him (Clemmings, Kalil, etc) if not, they went else where (Waynes, kendricks, hunter, Barr, Diggs, etc) that's how you build a great team and I'm glad they do it that way.Texas Vike wrote: Yeah, I share your opinion. I found it an interesting read because (ostensibly) Spielman reveals his thinking on how to fix our most obvious problem. I agree with you: how he drafts will tell me just how serious he is when he says "quality people". The approach thus far has seemed more about quantity than quality, IMO. They seem reluctant to truly invest in the position. They did sign Boone, so there's that. But at some other positions they seem content to throw a few mediocre options in the cauldron of competition and see who rises to the surface.
I wonder if some of the tendency to not draft OL high comes from Kalil supposedly being a "sure thing" prospect and his subsequent failure to become a solid, dependable LT? Maybe he's hesitant to repeat that mistake? Just floating a theory. I'll be interested to see what they do in the draft.
I don't think it's a great mystery either, they just haven't invested enough Rd. 1-3 picks on OL, IMO. Yes, I'm glad they've drafted well on D and hit on Diggs too, but it's time for some higher quality prospects at OL. Secondly, when they have drafted OL (Yankey, 2014, early 5th; Clemmings, 2015, 4th), they were less successful at finding a diamond in the rough. All I'm saying is I think it's time to draft the position earlier; it's more likely they'll find a "quality person" as the Ricker says he's looking for. Maybe Sparano will be able to help our scouts and give Turner and Zimmer his input on the prospects.mondry wrote: I don't think this is any great mystery, the team had a lot of problems and they spent their picks how they saw fit to most improve the team. When a lineman happened to be the best pick they took him (Clemmings, Kalil, etc) if not, they went else where (Waynes, kendricks, hunter, Barr, Diggs, etc) that's how you build a great team and I'm glad they do it that way. .
That's my concern as well.halfgiz wrote:Jim my only concern is If you have all this competition do we have anyone of quality?? Or just mediocre players just trying to fill a spot.
Don't get me wrong competition is good.
That's a great way to put it. ITexas Vike wrote:Yeah, I share your opinion. I found it an interesting read because (ostensibly) Spielman reveals his thinking on how to fix our most obvious problem. I agree with you: how he drafts will tell me just how serious he is when he says "quality people". The approach thus far has seemed more about quantity than quality, IMO. They seem reluctant to truly invest in the position. They did sign Boone, so there's that. But at some other positions they seem content to throw a few mediocre options in the cauldron of competition and see who rises to the surface.
It's possible, although he's always seemed somewhat reluctant to invest higher picks in the OL. If I remember correctly, Loadholt and Clemmings are the only other offensive linemen he's drafted above R5 since he came to Minnesota.I wonder if some of the tendency to not draft OL high comes from Kalil supposedly being a "sure thing" prospect and his subsequent failure to become a solid, dependable LT? Maybe he's hesitant to repeat that mistake? Just floating a theory.