Vikings Message Board.Com

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I agree completely. I don't understand why they have to have him as an "X" WR. I think he would be much more useful out of the slot. All in all though, he had trouble with the playbook. But in a way, I do feel for the guy having 4 completely different offenses in 4 years. Now that he has another season under Turner, I feel like he will grasp it a lot more

And I also agree. Actually, I'm beginning to see some of Chili's "my way or the highway even if it doesn't work" mentality from Turner at times.

OTOH, let's not forget that Zimmer said Patterson's sophomore slump was both CP's and the team's fault. He also said the Vikings need to be more creative in how they play Patterson.

losperros wrote: And I also agree. Actually, I'm beginning to see some of Chili's "my way or the highway even if it doesn't work" mentality from Turner at times.

OTOH, let's not forget that Zimmer said Patterson's sophomore slump was both CP's and the team's fault. He also said the Vikings need to be more creative in how they play Patterson.

Norv Turner has just a wee bit more a track record of success than Brad Childress.

I'm just curious, but what was Patterson's problem actually? Was it a lack of effort, conditioning, or awareness?

If it was something he physically wasn't or couldn't do, then all this talk about a "hell trainer" helping him makes some sense, but I got the sense that his issue was more about knowing where to be and running his routes properly. That's between-the-ears stuff that intense workouts probably aren't going to help.

I also have to wonder if part of the problem isn't the coaches. While coaches should expect their players to know what to do, it seems pretty clear that there are some players who, for whatever reason, don't do as well in complex systems. For example, if you ask AD to run between the tackles, you're likely to see something good happen. If you ask AD to stay in on a passing down and identify a blitzing linebacker and pick him up, you're less likely to see something good happen. You ask Troy Williamson to run a go route and catch the ball over his shoulder, you're likely to get a lowlight reel. I wonder if something like that didn't happen to Patterson last year. Maybe Turner tried to fit him into a role on the offense that he's just not as likely to succeed at. Maybe there are alternatives that would increase the likelihood he can be successful?

Not saying the above is what I think happened, but more that if Patterson's problem is he doesn't know where to be or lacks the discipline to be there, intense offseason conditioning is unlikely to improve that.

VikingLord wrote:I'm just curious, but what was Patterson's problem actually? Was it a lack of effort, conditioning, or awareness?

If it was something he physically wasn't or couldn't do, then all this talk about a "hell trainer" helping him makes some sense, but I got the sense that his issue was more about knowing where to be and running his routes properly. That's between-the-ears stuff that intense workouts probably aren't going to help.

I also have to wonder if part of the problem isn't the coaches. While coaches should expect their players to know what to do, it seems pretty clear that there are some players who, for whatever reason, don't do as well in complex systems. For example, if you ask AD to run between the tackles, you're likely to see something good happen. If you ask AD to stay in on a passing down and identify a blitzing linebacker and pick him up, you're less likely to see something good happen. You ask Troy Williamson to run a go route and catch the ball over his shoulder, you're likely to get a lowlight reel. I wonder if something like that didn't happen to Patterson last year. Maybe Turner tried to fit him into a role on the offense that he's just not as likely to succeed at. Maybe there are alternatives that would increase the likelihood he can be successful?

Not saying the above is what I think happened, but more that if Patterson's problem is he doesn't know where to be or lacks the discipline to be there, intense offseason conditioning is unlikely to improve that.

... I'm still waiting to hear in what scenario Troy Williamson would have success

More seriously, though, I do think Patterson is simply a bad fit in a more complex offense. He doesn't strike me as a very cerebral guy and I'd thought that his issue was between the ears not with his body or being in game shape, so, yes, the hell trainer story is odd when you consider that.

I had read both about CP. He had trouble grogging a new system and trouble getting off the jam.
The former is understandable since he's only been playing organized ball for a few years and had a different system each year as a pro. So, I'm not sold yet on him being too thick skulled to get it.

The trouble getting off the line would wreak all kinds of havoc between him and TB. Timing and location would be all janky.

If that's true...then the hell trainer is a darn good idea...especially since it was CPs idea in the first place.

I don't know what the criteria will be for him as far as bench marks for improvement...but it sounds like he's all in. whatever that means.

Even the purveyor of positivity and #1 Vikings bobo Paul Allen scoffed at the idea of Patterson in the slot. He couldn't pick up the routes and how to adjust to defenses outside last year, you want to give him even more to process? And now we're going to start pointing the finger at Norv Turner? Polishing a turd leaves you with a shiny turd. The idea he's so good you can just work with him, or just change your play calling because of him? If teams play him close, and he can't get off press coverage, and he can't run the correct route, is Norv just supposed to call bubble screens and end arounds? You don't think defenses could adjust to that and take him out of games? Not everyone can play receiver just because they're fast. We should have learned that by now. Bears tried it with Devin Hester. And again we have an athlete who's struggled with the position, for two seasons. He's going to get another chance, but the idea it's coaching and not the player? C'mon man....you could put him in the perfect position, perfect team, perfect coaches, and he could still fail. Plenty of players have in the history of the league.

Actually, you can sell a polished turd for anywhere between $20-$80. So...you really can increase a turd's value with some polish, Demi.

DK Sweets wrote:Actually, you can sell a polished turd for anywhere between $20-$80. So...you really can increase a turd's value with some polish, Demi.

Demi wrote:Even the purveyor of positivity and #1 Vikings bobo Paul Allen scoffed at the idea of Patterson in the slot. He couldn't pick up the routes and how to adjust to defenses outside last year, you want to give him even more to process? And now we're going to start pointing the finger at Norv Turner? Polishing a turd leaves you with a shiny turd. The idea he's so good you can just work with him, or just change your play calling because of him? If teams play him close, and he can't get off press coverage, and he can't run the correct route, is Norv just supposed to call bubble screens and end arounds? You don't think defenses could adjust to that and take him out of games? Not everyone can play receiver just because they're fast. We should have learned that by now. Bears tried it with Devin Hester. And again we have an athlete who's struggled with the position, for two seasons. He's going to get another chance, but the idea it's coaching and not the player? C'mon man....you could put him in the perfect position, perfect team, perfect coaches, and he could still fail. Plenty of players have in the history of the league.

Yeah I remember them saying they wanted Patterson to focus on learning one position rather than have him moving around, they didn't want "too much on his plate". That's what makes changing his position difficult, he literally has no idea how to play in the slot either so you can't just move him around.

I agree with Jim's comment about Turner and his system, and how he sees CP fitting into it. I think Jim has stated the fact better then I can, but CP should be given more reps in the slot, and thus more of getting the ball in his hands. He is similar to AD when the ball is in his hands, big plays can happen. At least give him more of that option before forcing him into a role he isnt really good at. Yet. Who is better in the slot at the moment? Wright? Let them compete for that spot. I know I am not the biggest fan of CP as a WR, but the possibilities of him working out, makes what should already be a potent offense, lethal. Time will tell. IF we can see it, Turner can too. Maybe he is just playing things close to the vest.

mondry wrote: Yeah I remember them saying they wanted Patterson to focus on learning one position rather than have him moving around, they didn't want "too much on his plate". That's what makes changing his position difficult, he literally has no idea how to play in the slot either so you can't just move him around.

But he does at other positions? Do you realize how little time CP has at ANY of the WR positions?

PurpleKoolaid wrote:I agree with Jim's comment about Turner and his system, and how he sees CP fitting into it. I think Jim has stated the fact better then I can, but CP should be given more reps in the slot, and thus more of getting the ball in his hands. He is similar to AD when the ball is in his hands, big plays can happen. At least give him more of that option before forcing him into a role he isnt really good at. Yet. Who is better in the slot at the moment? Wright? Let them compete for that spot. I know I am not the biggest fan of CP as a WR, but the possibilities of him working out, makes what should already be a potent offense, lethal. Time will tell. IF we can see it, Turner can too. Maybe he is just playing things close to the vest.

I agree. Also, lack of experience is really Patterson's big problem. As Zimmer said, CP has had to take in too much in too little time.

Im sure Im stating the obvious here, but I really hope that Patterson's off season work translates to something positive on the field. Last year was a huge disappointment.

Demi wrote:If teams play him close, and he can't get off press coverage, and he can't run the correct route, is Norv just supposed to call bubble screens and end arounds? You don't think defenses could adjust to that and take him out of games?

I don't know what defenses could adjust to, but neither would Turner unless he tries some different things. I find it hard to believe bubble screens and end-arounds are all CP would be effective at. I guess we have a better idea of what he's NOT effective at, but even there, is it OK for Turner and the Vikings to just give up?

If CP proves to be a different incarnation of Troy Williamson, so be it, but I don't think we've seen enough quite yet to reach that conclusion.

Demi wrote:you could put him in the perfect position, perfect team, perfect coaches, and he could still fail. Plenty of players have in the history of the league.

That's absolutely true and very possible in this case. I don't think CP has reached that point yet, nor am I convinced Turner has done everything he could to help CP be successful.

http://www.startribune.com/vikings-patt ... 302694181/

Cordarrelle Patterson spent four long weeks of the biggest offseason of his young career at the beach. But it’s definitely not what you have in mind.

The third-year wide receiver traveled to San Francisco this winter to work out with the mystery man “Men’s Health” magazine once dubbed “Hell’s trainer.” Patterson believes he returned to Minnesota last month much stronger, and not just physically.

He has been profiled by many publications, but he has refused to be photographed, either turning his back on the camera or wearing what looks like a ninja mask.

The New Jersey native uses unprintable words when talking about the bench press and popular weight machines. His unique program, which he calls “Chameleon Training,” is centered on the great outdoors, hard work and his imagination. Every day is different, with Matrisciano presenting athletes new obstacles on a whim.

Is this the Mystical WR Guru? Or just a seperate Hell's ninja trainer? Getting more and more nike vision camp like!