Vikings Message Board.Com

Webbfann wrote:We need a well balanced offense. One where no one person is the "Face of the Franchise", but especially a running back who by the nature of the position these days has less ability to control the outcome of games. I LOVE watching AP break free and go 64 yards, or carry three guys on his back for 9 yards. I love it. But we have over relied on him and we need to fix that. And his head has gotten just a little too big, with his overconfident comments about 2500 yards.

I think that's just his way of motivating himself.

Having a player be the "face of the Franchise" isn't a problem. It's a good thing. It means the team has a player good enough that most fans identify him with the team. The problem arises when there's not a good enough team around that player, which has often been the case with Peterson.

Adrian helps us win sometimes, or helps us be in a position to win, sometimes. But he isn't going to carry us to any Super Bowls. We actually played our best game of the entire season without him, so he is hardly synonymous with winning and he obviously isn't required for it.

There's not a player in the league who is "required" for his team to win. Winning takes a team effort. AD isn't going to carry the Vikes to any Super Bowls and no QB is going to throw them to a Super Bowl either. Getting to a Super Bowl always takes a strong team effort.

I think winning games will sell seats as much, if not more than AP's face and losses. But I'd like to see him continuing to play an important role in the offense, albeit a somewhat more balanced role. With the smarter offensive strategy that I hope Norv will bring, AP should still have some great years, even if he has to share the limelight a bit for the team to WIN.

I don't think he'll care one iota about sharing the limelight.

Demi wrote: Hype? Considering the experience of Zimmer and Turner, it's hardly hype...especially after the #### the team has paraded through the last decade....

Totally agree. Just having a coaching staff with some semblance of experience and not a bunch of nobody rehashes from the same tired coaching crew is enough for me to be excited.

Mothman wrote: I think that's just his way of motivating himself.

Having a player be the "face of the Franchise" isn't a problem. It's a good thing. It means the team has a player good enough that most fans identify him with the team. The problem arises when there's not a good enough team around that player, which has often been the case with Peterson.
There's not a player in the league who is "required" for his team to win. Winning takes a team effort. AD isn't going to carry the Vikes to any Super Bowls and no QB is going to throw them to a Super Bowl either. Getting to a Super Bowl always takes a strong team effort.
I don't think he'll care one iota about sharing the limelight.

Well said

dead_poet wrote:Well said

Thanks. You already covered the need to commit to the run and not become one-dimensional so I had to come up with something.

you either Put your $ in the Dline or the DBs. Depends on your Philosophy. I like having premier DBs than paying a lot of money to Dline who don't get to the QB enough to earn for the premier $ they demand. I prefer Quality Cover skills and Average Dline. You get burned less that way to me

Mothman wrote: Thanks. You already covered the need to commit to the run and not become one-dimensional so I had to come up with something.

Mothman, I am absolutely shocked that you would agree with Dead Poet in disagreeing with me on something.

But I really don't think there is that mush disagreement here. I think AP would take a Super Bowl Ring over hogging the limelight, though it may take some minor mental adjustments on his part I think he wants to win more than anyone. I just think the Face of the Franchise needs to be a well rounded offense, not taking runs away from AP and compensating for it by throwing to him instead. We have a pretty darn good receiving corp IMO and that needs to share the limelight equally with AP in order for us to advance in the post season. And it will open new holes for AP that have been closed. I'm not worried; I think that will happen under Norv Turner. AP could easily get more yardage and more TDs with fewer touches under a smart OC. We can win more using him a bit less and I think that would be entirely fine with him.

Webbfann wrote:
Mothman, I am absolutely shocked that you would agree with Dead Poet in disagreeing with me on something.

But I really don't think there is that mush disagreement here. I think AP would take a Super Bowl Ring over hogging the limelight, though it may take some minor mental adjustments on his part I think he wants to win more than anyone. I just think the Face of the Franchise needs to be a well rounded offense, not taking runs away from AP and compensating for it by throwing to him instead. We have a pretty darn good receiving corp IMO and that needs to share the limelight equally with AP in order for us to advance in the post season. And it will open new holes for AP that have been closed. I'm not worried; I think that will happen under Norv Turner. AP could easily get more yardage and more TDs with fewer touches under a smart OC. We can win more using him a bit less and I think that would be entirely fine with him.

The problem I have w/ your posts about AD is that you make it sound like HE is the one who is selfish and unwilling to share the "limelight," as if: 1) it were his decision to begin with and 2) he were more concerned about personal stats than the team. Neither of those are true, IMO. AD has been a dedicated team player throughout his time w/ us. I remember the game against the Pack at Lamblow two years ago when Ponder sucked worse than any QB I've ever seen--blew the game on his own--and AD ran like a madman. How did AD handle the media's questions that tried to bait him into driving a bus over his incompetent QB? He said that he could have done more. That 200 yards was OK, but that he needed to do more to help his team! AD has been anything but selfish while w/ the Vikings.

Webbfann wrote:But I really don't think there is that mush disagreement here. I think AP would take a Super Bowl Ring over hogging the limelight, though it may take some minor mental adjustments on his part I think he wants to win more than anyone. I just think the Face of the Franchise needs to be a well rounded offense, not taking runs away from AP and compensating for it by throwing to him instead. We have a pretty darn good receiving corp IMO and that needs to share the limelight equally with AP in order for us to advance in the post season. And it will open new holes for AP that have been closed. I'm not worried; I think that will happen under Norv Turner. AP could easily get more yardage and more TDs with fewer touches under a smart OC. We can win more using him a bit less and I think that would be entirely fine with him.

I think it would be fine with him too.

It seems like you've seized on the phrase "the face of the franchise" to make a point about the benefits of a more balanced offense. I think we'd all be on board with the latter (assuming it's effective) but a well-rounded offense can't be "the face of the franchise". That's not what the phrase describes. It's basically a media term, applied to the most visible (and usually the best) player on a team. It's a way to say that player is who most fans associate with the team. The only way a healthy Adrian Peterson will stop being "the face of the franchise" over the next few years is if a QB seizes the starting job and plays spectacularly well, well enough to eclipse Peterson as the player people that first comes to mind when people think of the Vikes.

Of course, improvement at QB is also the best path to a more balanced offense.

Mothman wrote: I think it would be fine with him too.

It seems like you've seized on the phrase "the face of the franchise" to make a point about the benefits of a more balanced offense. I think we'd all be on board with the latter (assuming it's effective) but a well-rounded offense can't be "the face of the franchise". That's not what the phrase describes. It's basically a media term, applied to the most visible (and usually the best) player on a team. It's a way to say that player is who most fans associate with the team. The only way a healthy Adrian Peterson will stop being "the face of the franchise" over the next few years is if a QB seizes the starting job and plays spectacularly well, well enough to eclipse Peterson as the player people that first comes to mind when people think of the Vikes.

Of course, improvement at QB is also the best path to a more balanced offense.

Yes, I have seized on that phrase supposedly uttered by Spielman and reported by the media, and combined it with my annoyance with AP's silly 2500 yard boast, and the fact that reliance on an AP dominated offensive strategy hasn't/won't get us where we want to go. But I do think AP (I won't use the adulatory "AD") is a team player at heart, who just maybe got a bit big headed after the 2012 season. He has every right to be proud of his accomplishments though.

I guess when I think of "Face of the Franchise" I want to think of The Steel Curtain, or Monsters of the Midway, or Purple People Eaters, or Air Coryell. "Norv's Well-rounded Vikings offense" doesn't have the same kind of ring to it, lol, so we'll have to come up with something better once we see it.

Texas Vike wrote: The problem I have w/ your posts about AD is that you make it sound like HE is the one who is selfish and unwilling to share the "limelight," as if: 1) it were his decision to begin with and 2) he were more concerned about personal stats than the team. Neither of those are true, IMO. AD has been a dedicated team player throughout his time w/ us. I remember the game against the Pack at Lamblow two years ago when Ponder sucked worse than any QB I've ever seen--blew the game on his own--and AD ran like a madman. How did AD handle the media's questions that tried to bait him into driving a bus over his incompetent QB? He said that he could have done more. That 200 yards was OK, but that he needed to do more to help his team! AD has been anything but selfish while w/ the Vikings.

I agree with you for the most part, and hope AP doesn't do any more predicting of how much yardage he's going gain in the future. Just go get the yards, and we'll add them up.

Seriously? I click to read a thread about Norv Turner as OC and instead am treated to more unsupported claims about AD on the decline. So, anyway, how about Norv Turner, huh? I am hoping he can find ways to shape an offense that can utilize the considerable talents of Patterson, and open the deep game. It will be nice to see what that might do to bolster an already dangerous run game. If his history is any indicator, I expect a well-balanced approach.

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BGM wrote:Seriously? I click to read a thread about Norv Turner as OC and instead am treated to more unsupported claims about AD on the decline. So, anyway, how about Norv Turner, huh? I am hoping he can find ways to shape an offense that can utilize the considerable talents of Patterson, and open the deep game. It will be nice to see what that might do to bolster an already dangerous run game. If his history is any indicator, I expect a well-balanced approach.

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Patterson....AND Simpson...AND Jennings....AND Wright....We have more than one competent receiver too! I'm excited about Norv and hope he has a plan to get ALL of our considerable offensive talent involved. With consistent QB play this offense could become quite dangerous, and maybe even exciting. I hate to get my hopes up too high though.

Patterson is going to blow up this year (assuming competent QB play).

Spielman: First thing Norv Turner did was put in 10 plays for Cordarelle Patterson.

Tom Pelissero on Twitter

80 PurplePride 84 wrote: That's already double of what Musgrave had for him.

That's more than the total plays Musgrave had.

fiestavike wrote:Thinking of Norv in San Diego, I could see him being tempted to take a guy like Mike Evans. Those big tall, Vincent Jackson type guys are perfect for a vertical passing game.

I know we need defense, but Evans in 1, Carr/Garrapolo/Mettenberger etc in 2-3 could give the vikings a pretty dynamic offensive attack for years to come.

If the Vikings can address some of their defensive needs in free agency I could imagine this happening.

I just can't see us drafting Evans. We don't need a monster field stretcher in order to have a good offense. WR is far from being a big need on this team. It might be one of our stronger positions. If we went offense with our first 2 picks, I would be furious. You can't build a defense through free agency. Especially when we have as many needs as we do