Are we screwed with Cousins.

[mykyle]

I know eveyone is like Cousins stats are so good. Most of those stats are when he is behind late in game.
I wonder what his entire first have stats for the season are. Anyway Cousins throws a pretty ball but thats about it. He is modern day Jeff George. His reaction time to pressure is way to slow. His release is to slow. He is basically uncoordinated by NFL level of rolling and throwing. Case was a far superior athlete did not throw the ball as well asCousins does, but Case is better. Denver already has won more games than they have last year, despite playing in a tough division, Minnesota wont even make the playoffs this year, with the only major difference this year is Cousins, instead of Case.

Minnesota forever is the place that thinks grass is greener on the other side. I remember when young qb Tjackson started turning a corner in his last season as starter. He was offensive player of the month, He guided the team to a 10-6 record they won there division, and played a competitive playoff loss.

So next year they get farve old as hell, win alot of defensive games win one playoff game, then the next year they are terrible.

Fast forward Case Keenum plays wells guides the team to best record in years, wins a playoff game over the tough saints. Then gets smoked by Phillie, in a coaching disaster. Everyone if we just get Cousins we will be superbowl team.

[dead_poet]

Protect him with an average offensive line and he's fine.

[Cliff]

Protect him with an average offensive line and he's fine.

I think so too. So the answer is kind of yes and no. I think the 2018 Vikings might be screwed with Cousins but if the team can make some improvements to the offensive line I think he can be ok. I am nervous about how he has performed in prime time though. If he gets jumpy in those cases we are screwed with him. As far as winning a super bowl goes anyway.

[mansquatch]

It is a 3 year deal and year one is pretty much done. He does have a big cap number, but it is relatively temporary.

I suspect the coaching issues surrounding the offense are part of the issue as well.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Not screwed with Kirk. Getting him didn't weaken the D, although they are closer to last year the last several games, they were not early. Getting Kirk didn't cause borderline criminal O Line play. Getting Kirk didn't end the running game all of a sudden. Was it the OC seemingly not knowing how to call plays? I don't know. First year in a new system, new OC that was bad at play calling best I could tell, abysmal O line, no running game. Most of that is not on Kirk's lesser ability to move around than Case's. He is a very good QB who needs competent O line play and thus a reasonable run threat to keep the D honest. Just like every other really good QB in the league. There are only about 8-10 of them in the league. The offense is one dimensional and good D's know it.

All things equal to last year, he was the guy to elevate the team. But all things aren't equal this year for whatever reason. The expectations on him were setting him up to fail. In a league of parity 13 wins every year is very hard to accomplish. Less than that with his contract is a fail. It was far more likely he would "Fail' this year than succeed. I'm starting to smell a conspiracy to some extent. The league does not like guaranteed salaries at all. The announcers the last several games never missed an opportunity to point out that Kirk has to score, Kirk has to produce, Kirk has to get it done here, Kirk isn't going to score 14 points tonight. Its Kirk's responsibility to do all of this. Not the offense, the team. Kirk. It was so over done that it became apparent to me that somebody, somewhere has an agenda with this narrative. Never heard this narrative with Stafford and his 28 a year, not once. Or anyone else getting the big payday and not ruling the league. Just a thought.

[Mothman]

Are we screwed with Cousins? Yes, probably but time will tell. I'm cynical about it because I think Cousins, Spielman and Zimmer are all tied to one another at this point and I don't see a championship combination there.

Regarding Favre and Jackson: I think the lesson there was not that they should have stuck with Jackson but rather that they needed a plan of succession at QB after Favre and they didn't bother to put one together. It's worth remembering that Jackson "guided" the Vikings to 10-6 in 2008 by playing poorly in an 0-2 start and getting benched for Frerotte, who had 8 wins as a starter. When Frerotte got hurt, Jackson came on and led the Vikes to a couple wins late in the season (he probably had the best game of his career against Arizona) before performing very poorly in a playoff loss to the Eagles. The Vikes had no future with Jackson at QB.

[halfgiz]

I think this is somewhat of an adjustment year for Kirk.
Add to the fact that the offensive Line has sucked balls this year
Then on top of that I think that Flip had/has him out of sync...
I will say...I will take a winning QB any day over a Stat Queen. I'm not overly impressed with stats give me wins.

[StumpHunter]

Not screwed with Kirk. Getting him didn't weaken the D, although they are closer to last year the last several games, they were not early. Getting Kirk didn't cause borderline criminal O Line play. Getting Kirk didn't end the running game all of a sudden.

I honestly think Kirk contributed to all of those things, indirectly and directly. Indirectly the defense is hurt by shorter drives on offense and less time to rest. Indirectly a less mobile QB is hurting the run game because the defense does not need to account for him running the ball or containing him in the pocket. Directly Kirk is hurting the Oline with his unwillingness to move in the pocket, and by how long he takes to make decisions and get rid of the ball.

The guy had the 5th longest time to throw on Monday of any QB in week 14. 5th for a pure pocket passer. The shortest sack time was 3.6 seconds in that game, with the shortest in the NFL being 1.5 seconds. Our starting RB averaged 4.2 YPA and while Diggs wasn't getting a ton of separation and was doubled a lot, Thielen was wide open much of the game.

The lack of scoring Monday wasn't on the Oline, it wasn't on the RB, it wasn't on the receivers and while the OC didn't have a great game, it wasn't really on him either. It was on the QB who consistently missed seeing wide open receivers and played like complete garbage.

[StumpHunter]

Are we screwed with Cousins? Yes, probably but time will tell. I'm cynical about it because I think Cousins, Spielman and Zimmer are all tied to one another at this point and I don't see a championship combination there.

Regarding Favre and Jackson: I think the lesson there was not that they should have stuck with Jackson but rather that they needed a plan of succession at QB after Favre and they didn't bother to put one together. It's worth remembering that Jackson "guided" the Vikings to 10-6 in 2008 by playing poorly in an 0-2 start and getting benched for Frerotte, who had 8 wins as a starter. When Frerotte got hurt, Jackson came on and led the Vikes to a couple wins late in the season (he probably had the best game of his career against Arizona) before performing very poorly in a playoff loss to the Eagles. The Vikes had no future with Jackson at QB.

I can't blame Rick for not drafting a QB in 2010. It was a horrible year for QBs. The best QB to come out of that group might be Joe Webb since he at least contributes on STs.

[VikingLord]

Fast forward Case Keenum plays wells guides the team to best record in years, wins a playoff game over the tough saints. Then gets smoked by Phillie, in a coaching disaster. Everyone if we just get Cousins we will be superbowl team.

The question is, if the Vikings thought one player would make them a superbowl team, why aren't they?

Did they incorrectly evaluate that player? Did they miss something when they looked at him objectively? Maybe they weren't objective in looking at him, or maybe they were going on potential rather than proven production when they evaluated him?

I think the issues with this year's team go way beyond the decision to bring in Kirk Cousins. While I do think they probably over-estimated what Cousins was going to be able to bring to the team, that alone didn't sink the ship this year.

I mean, just look at the defense. Same group as last year for the most part, but they added Richardson, and that should have made them even better. But they haven't been better, especially early in the season. They've been worse. Maybe playing a bit better lately, but overall, not what they were last year. Their mistakes have been costly too. While the offense and special teams have struggled as well, defensive gaffes and mistakes have also led to losses this season. Can't blame any QB for those problems and lack of production from a unit that, prior to the season, should easily have been a top-3 defense. They're close to the top, but not there.

How about special teams? Almost historically bad. Directly led to multiple losses this year. Blocked field goals, missed field goals, blocked punts. Can't blame the QB for those either.

Offensively, well, Cousins hasn't necessarily elevated them, but he's got a very shaky OL in front of him, little consistently from the running game, and little apparent creativity from the offensive coordinator and coaches. What I will say about Cousins that bothers me the most are his consistent fumbles, batted passes, and some of the questionable throws he's made (or not made). He doesn't seem like he moves very well as the pocket collapses, either, so he's not great at extending plays with his legs.

And then overall, the team just seems to lack energy and preparation. This is perhaps the most disturbing thing to me as both of those are pretty basic things. The team has consistently come out flat against certainly their opponents with winning records, and seem to be surprised and unable to deal with basic well-established tendencies of their opponents for long stretches of games. By the time adjustments are made and they have a little more pep in their step, they have fallen behind and, at least on offense, become one-dimensional.

This could just be one of those years when the ball doesn't bounce their way. Or, it could be a sign of more significant problems within the organization, such as overall player and coaching leadership issues, chemistry, or even more subtle personal issues with certain key players. Whatever it is, I'm not sure they can really fix it this season as it's been going on all year long.

So are the Vikings screwed with Cousins? Well, I think the answer to that is no. If they can win with Case Keenum, they can win with Kirk Cousins. But Kirk Cousins can't turn things around by himself. He's got to have a functional, well-prepared and motivated team and coaches around him, and he himself also has to be well prepared and motivated. The Vikings are mainly screwed if they invested that guaranteed money in a QB and then can't field the supporting structures that allow them to maximize their investment. So far, that is where I see they have fallen down this year. It can be corrected, maybe even yet this season, but certainly by next season, but first they have to acknowledge that the problems are spread throughout the organization.

I really hope the team shows up fired up against the Dolphins this Sunday. They need to come out and show they have what it takes to get quickly on top of an opponent and dominate start-to-finish, especially at home with the playoffs potentially on the line.

[mykyle]

I like talking about the childress years, childress coaching went to #### with favre.

But childress did have a rushing attack with Peterson. Peterson was way more effective with tarvaris in there because teams would worry if Jackson would keep it.

Tarvaris was one of those late bloomers, he played horribly forever and then started figuring it out by then everyone was sick of him. He did the same thing in seattle, played horrible first part of season then played well second part, and was figuring that teeam out. He is a guy I will always wonder if we would have given him another year, if he would have been good.
My biggest heartbreaks in MN history, trading moss to raiders for nothing.
Firing Tice hiring childress.
Letting Case go hiring Cousins

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Not screwed with Kirk. Getting him didn't weaken the D, although they are closer to last year the last several games, they were not early. Getting Kirk didn't cause borderline criminal O Line play. Getting Kirk didn't end the running game all of a sudden.

I honestly think Kirk contributed to all of those things, indirectly and directly. Indirectly the defense is hurt by shorter drives on offense and less time to rest. Indirectly a less mobile QB is hurting the run game because the defense does not need to account for him running the ball or containing him in the pocket. Directly Kirk is hurting the Oline with his unwillingness to move in the pocket, and by how long he takes to make decisions and get rid of the ball.

The guy had the 5th longest time to throw on Monday of any QB in week 14. 5th for a pure pocket passer. The shortest sack time was 3.6 seconds in that game, with the shortest in the NFL being 1.5 seconds. Our starting RB averaged 4.2 YPA and while Diggs wasn't getting a ton of separation and was doubled a lot, Thielen was wide open much of the game.

The lack of scoring Monday wasn't on the Oline, it wasn't on the RB, it wasn't on the receivers and while the OC didn't have a great game, it wasn't really on him either. It was on the QB who consistently missed seeing wide open receivers and played like complete garbage.

Hmmm. Well I didn't look at the all 22. Haven't done that for quite a while. What I could see on the screen and replays were swarmed receivers and only the check down open most of the time. Other than the Theilen end zone when his defender fell. Kirk is known for getting the ball out quickly and on time. He is a timing QB. Or at least was in Washington. But this is a different style offense somewhat. Gruden's is very regimented, regarding where the ball goes and when. Washington's O line was horrid until Kirk got the job and then all of a sudden the same terrible line was good. It seems the reverse here. I saw him fix all the issues you mentioned above in Washington. Seems odd to me that he is the cause of it here. Unless its just learning a new system.

[mykyle]

bad qbs make olines look terrible, game is about energy, if they roll out keep hitting first downs, all of sudden defense doesn't have to same pop. Or the other guy that Is super accurate and can play out of the gun, hits a bunch of short passes they exhaust defense

[Cliff]

We've had a lot of talk about how the Vikings haven't beaten any teams with a winning record. When Cousins finished with the Redskins his record was 4-19 against teams with a winning record. He is now 4-24 against teams with a winning record.

[Mothman]

I can't blame Rick for not drafting a QB in 2010. It was a horrible year for QBs. The best QB to come out of that group might be Joe Webb since he at least contributes on STs.

I think Bradford was obviously better, despite the injuries (although maybe I'm remembering wrong and he wasn't drafted in 2010—he was never an option for the Vikes that year anyway).

The first several years Spielman was with the team were pretty lean years in the draft for quality QBs.