Rick Spielman, what should the Vikes do with him

[VikingPaul73]

Was going to post the same thing about the D.

We are a good to very good defense and an absolutely awful offense especially after all the injuries. That translates to losing 6 of 7

[Pondering Her Percy]

I mean we're 2nd in points allowed with 17.2, allowing under 200 yards passing per game allowing only 300 total yards per game both which rank 3rd. We just held the #1 offense in the entire NFL to next to nothing offensively. I dont think we are too far off elite status. To say we are "nowhere near" a SB caliber team on any level is laughable if you ask me. The Broncos were deemed an elite defense last year and were giving up 19 points per game compared to our 17.2. They gave up less yards than we did. When you have an offense that cant keep our D off the field, you're really going to sit there and complain about a couple drives we gave up??

[chicagopurple]

we are not SB calibre. Even in the last game, we gave up way too many long runs right up the middle. We may be a very good but a SB quality defense can carry the team and ours hasnt carried us anywhere other then .500 football. Our offense sucks, but remember, it doesnt give up turnovers. A truly epic defense like the 80's Bears would be driving us to an easy conference championship this year where our conference sucks....instead we are circling the drain.

Moreover, Trae Waynes is a big maybe, Newman is just about ready to retire, and there are some other veterans that are not likely to be around much longer. Since Rick has screwed the pooch on our offense, the next few years MUST be spent on rebuilding to Offense so maintaining the defense will be a challenge.

[Pondering Her Percy]

we are not SB calibre. Even in the last game, we gave up way too many long runs right up the middle. We may be a very good but a SB quality defense can carry the team and ours hasnt carried us anywhere other then .500 football. Our offense sucks, but remember, it doesnt give up turnovers. A truly epic defense like the 80's Bears would be driving us to an easy conference championship this year where our conference sucks....instead we are circling the drain.

Moreover, Trae Waynes is a big maybe, Newman is just about ready to retire, and there are some other veterans that are not likely to be around much longer. Since Rick has screwed the pooch on our offense, the next few years MUST be spent on rebuilding to Offense so maintaining the defense will be a challenge.

I don't have a clue how you can sit there and say this defense isn't a SB caliber? Look at the numbers. The numbers we are putting up AND can't get off the field because of the offense. How can a defense carry a team that is literally dead last in offense?? You aren't looking at the big picture. Just because it doesn't give up turnovers is no excuse. They can't sustain drives is the biggest problem.

Look when this defense started to give up a little more.....right after the collapse of this offense. They were being compared to the Bears when we were 5-0. When we start turning the ball over and taking no time off the clock, no defense could save that. Yet we're still only allowing 17.4 points a game.

Why is Waynes all of the sudden a big maybe? What veterans are you referring to? Greenway who barely plays anymore? Robison who has Hunter sitting behind him? What other veterans? Maintaining the defense shouldn't be a challenge because they are so young and under contract. So you're losing me with what you're trying to get to here

[losperros]

I've had the same thought.

I wouldn't include Patterson in that list at all.

[Jordysghost]

I've had the same thought.

That is the kind of silly nonsense that has made the fans so quick to criticize, yea, some fool who watches youtube videos is more in tune then somone who scouts players for a living, and has an emtire scouting department under his employ.

[Mothman]

That is the kind of silly nonsense that has made the fans so quick to criticize, yea, some fool who watches youtube videos is more in tune then somone who scouts players for a living, and has an emtire scouting department under his employ.

I don't think he's claiming more knowledge than someone in Spielman's position, with the resources of an NFL scouting department. If I understood him correctly, I think he was just expressing aggravation (I know I was) and he meant someone in Spielman's position should pretty consistently be making much better decisions than well-informed fans. Let's face it, if you're not "some fool" and you've been watching football long enough to have a good feel for the game, you can watch some of the best players in college football, read the publicly available scouting reports (some of which are from former pro scouts and executives) and make a relatively informed decision about a first or second round caliber player. Those players tend to stand out so it's not like they are mysterious "finds" only visible to pro scouts and GMs. Their strengths and weaknesses tend to be pretty apparent. That still doesn't mean a fan has the depth of information a GM possesses but we're not all fools.

I'm sure someone will mistake this post as a claim of expertise but I'm actually saying the opposite and I think CbusVikesFan was too.

[Cliff]

I wouldn't include Patterson in that list at all.

I don't know how you'd include Treadwell either ...

[losperros]

I don't know how you'd include Treadwell either ...

You're right. We don't know how he's going to turn out yet.

[Mothman]

You're right. We don't know how he's going to turn out yet.

But is he saying those were bad players or bad (perhaps questionable would be a better word) choices? I don't think Patterson is a bad player and it's too early to tell how the Treadwell pick will pan out but I certainly think we can question the choices.

Patterson serves as a good example to consider a number of aspects of Spielman's decision making. Where we all come down on those choices may vary but it's an interesting case to consider (and as you guys know, I'm a Patterson fan).

Patterson cost a rebuilding Vikings team 4 picks (a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th and a 7th). That's 4 potential players for one and we all knew, despite his natural playmaking ability, that he was a raw player and a likely project. He would need development.

That pick was made at a time when the team was aging on defense and needed help at LB, OL, S and WR. Spielman was still showing a strong commitment to Christian Ponder as his QB but the Vikings weren't showing much commitment to continuing with Frazier as head coach. The latter is important because even if Frazier and his staff were willing to commit to Patterson's development, there was no guarantee the next coach would do likewise and, as we saw, Zimmer and his staff were unwilling to live with Patterson's growing pains and relegated him to the bottom of the depth chart for a year and a half.

The ongoing commitment to Ponder in the offseason of 2013 is relevant because he was entering a crucial third season, Harvin was gone and Ponder really needed a better WR corps. Drafting Patterson added talent and playmaking ability but he was far from the kind of skilled, "step in and play immediately" receiver who would help the young QB the Vikes were attempting to develop.

Was all of that the best and most sensible use of the resources available? It's debatable and again, I say that as a fan of Patterson's game.

I'm not sure Spielman's vision of how to build the team always makes sense. I do know he's now used 5 first round picks on QBs and WRs since 2011 and the team still doesn't have a very good passing game.

[Texas Vike]

I'm not sure Spielman's vision of how to build the team always makes sense. I do know he's now used 5 first round picks on QBs and WRs since 2011 and the team still doesn't have a very good passing game.

Not exactly a zinger of a CV, is it? Well put, Jim.

[CbusVikesFan]

ENOUGH with Treadwell!!! Nobody has any idea what kind of WR he will turn into. Arguably the #1 thing that drives me crazy the most on this board are guys calling rookies busts. Especially one that barely has any kind of sample size to be judged on.

Everyone did the same thing last year with Trae Waynes.

....."Wow he isnt playing what a bust"

....."He gets burnt when he goes in, he's a bust"

....."Great job drafting a bust Spielman"

Havent you guys learned yet???




and to add onto that, Bridgewater and Ponder arent comparable IMO. But please let's not get that train up and running again

The only comparison I would make with TB and Ponder is that I would not have drafted either one. Spielman and company did. Treadwell and Patterson. Same goes for them. I'm really tired of drafting these project players and it seems that is all Spielman likes to do on offense. I think that Sterling Shepard would have been a good compliment to Diggs. He could have been drafted later and used that pick elsewhere like say, the Oline? I am sure that we could have done better. Are you not just a bit skeptical about the direction of the team as a whole?

[Mothman]

Not exactly a zinger of a CV, is it? Well put, Jim.

Thank you, sir.

[mosscarter]

the reality is bridgewater and ponder aren't all that much different, at least statistically. we really did give up a ton to get patterson i didn't realize it was 4 picks wow. patterson might have dynamic ability, but no way in the world could you call that trade a success especially since he'll be up for contract. i wouldn't be surprised if he left and became a really good number 2 receiver somewhere else where they actually can get him the ball. but, from our perspective what do you do? he'll probably ask for decent money?

[CbusVikesFan]

That is the kind of silly nonsense that has made the fans so quick to criticize, yea, some fool who watches youtube videos is more in tune then somone who scouts players for a living, and has an emtire scouting department under his employ.

Hey jg,
A fool can see you think YOU'RE the smartest person in the room. Reaching for certain players is more foolish than drafting players with what you see. From what "I" saw, there is no way in Hades I would have drafted either of the last two qb's that the Vikings drafted. The Vikings have mortgaged their future yet again out of desperation and even a fool can SEE that. A fool can SEE that grasping for projects instead of building from the inside out and being patient is inherently foolish. A fool can also see that on a message board that a fan from another team constantly posting on a rival's board has too much time on their hands and is mostly a troll. Did you not get kicked off of here recently?