Who Starts?

[Cliff]

I like Kirk and everything, especially after watching the show. That said, I call BS. He more or less said the same thing in July 2017:



After saying this in January 2017:



He's also hedged his bets saying "I think it ultimately is about winning football games — and so that will be the most important thing, winning football games."

Does he think he'll have a better chance of winning football games on a better team? Will that team just so happen to give him a more favorable deal?

I don’t make the quotes. I just post ‘em as I see ‘em.

Which team supposedly interested in Kirk is actually better?

Atlanta? They just finished 7-10 and fired their head coach.
Las Vegas? 8-9 and don’t know who their head coach will be.
New England? They’re a mess.
Pittsburgh? Better than the Vikings. Would they be interested at his price tag?

Who else is there? Maybe Seattle.

Kirk also says he doesn’t feel like he should have to sell himself.

Finally, anything he said in 2017 is completely out of context to his current situation. He was young then, coming off a franchise tag and staring at a second one by a team that treated him pretty poorly. He was answering about the money involved with a second tag, which was significant, and he said that the respect and the football were important to him. Not a surprising thing for a guy who feels disrespected to say.

I’m not advocating for Kirk to stay. I’m simply stating that it’s not out of the question that he would take less money to stay with the Vikings than he might be able to get on the open market. That’s it.

I would also like to say that even though I think Kirk will go after the best deal possible I have no problem with this. Every NFL team is looking to pay players as little as they can, so I don't fault players for getting as much as they can. It doesn't lower my opinion of Kirk one bit, it is a business.

That said, I don't think he'll make things particularly easy on my favorite team.

[J. Kapp 11]

I don’t make the quotes. I just post ‘em as I see ‘em.

Which team supposedly interested in Kirk is actually better?

Atlanta? They just finished 7-10 and fired their head coach.
Las Vegas? 8-9 and don’t know who their head coach will be.
New England? They’re a mess.
Pittsburgh? Better than the Vikings. Would they be interested at his price tag?

Who else is there? Maybe Seattle.

Kirk also says he doesn’t feel like he should have to sell himself.

Finally, anything he said in 2017 is completely out of context to his current situation. He was young then, coming off a franchise tag and staring at a second one by a team that treated him pretty poorly. He was answering about the money involved with a second tag, which was significant, and he said that the respect and the football were important to him. Not a surprising thing for a guy who feels disrespected to say.

I’m not advocating for Kirk to stay. I’m simply stating that it’s not out of the question that he would take less money to stay with the Vikings than he might be able to get on the open market. That’s it.

I'm not saying the team he'll go to is actually better. Just that he'll be able to say he thinks they've got a better shot at winning. It's completely opinion based, he could say he thinks the Panthers are going to be the best team in the NFL next season because of such-and-such moves. He's left the door open to literally go to any team in the NFL lol

He doesn't have to sell himself for sure. The guy is the only QB worth a damn in all of free agency. Next down the line is Baker Mayfield and Jacoby Brissett.

It's not out of the question, it's just not in character. At least to this point. Certainly I don't expect him to take significantly less for the sake of the team. If he does, the team might even sign him to a longer term deal and ride out whatever good football Kirk has left. I'd be for that as long as they draft a more highly rated prospective rookie QB too.

Everybody says it’s out of character for Cousins to do anything but whatever it takes to get paid the most. The clips of him and his agent pitting the Jets and Vikings against one another are pretty strong evidence, as are the extensions he’s signed here in Minnesota after the original guaranteed contract.

But I still tend to believe he’d take less to stay with the Vikings. Here are my reasons.

1. He’s got weapons
With JJ, Addison and Hockenson, he’s got as good a trio of playmakers around him as any team in the league. Would he have that in Atlanta? Pittsburgh? Las Vegas?

2. He’s got KOC
In 2023, he played for the same OC for the second year in a row. It was the first time in his 11-year career. Not only that, KOC’s offense is perfectly suited to his skill set. I know there are some who think KOC is a bad playcaller … those people are wrong. He’s an exceptional playcaller, with an offensive architecture that schemes receivers open brilliantly. Would I be happy if he dropped every trick play he ever conceived? Yes. Did I love the tush push? Heck no. But the guy can set up a team to move the ball. Kirk has to love that.

3. He’s (finally) got the love
Think about this. Kirk has always — from the time he was a kid — been sort of an odd duck. Never terribly popular, and never the super-stud athlete you’d imagine an NFL quarterback to be. He wasn’t highly recruited out of HS. A good but not great college quarterback who wasn’t thought that highly of by scouts. Drafted in the same year as RGIII, almost a slap in the face. Never embraced by any head coach he had in Washington. Franchise tagged twice. Never wanted by Mike Zimmer, and hated by Zimmer eventually. Made the scapegoat by fans in both Washington and Minnesota.

Then comes KOC and the Netflix documentary, and everything changes.

KOC loves Kirk. Understands him. Values him, but doesn’t coddle him. Gets the best play out of Kirk in his life. And this year, he’s beginning to develop an understanding of KOC’s offense that has him playing at a near-MVP level.

Even more amazingly, the fans turn in his favor. As Kirk has loosened up and let down his guard, fans have embraced him. He’s going on the Manning Cast and killing it. He’s ripping off his shirt, donning the chains, and blowing the Gjallarhorn while fans go nuts.

Maybe for the first time ever, Kirk feels embraced. Like he belongs.

That’s why I think he’d take a discount. Where else is he going to get all this?

[VikingLord]

When a guy reaches the point Kirk is at in his pro career, he may realize money isn't the only reward worth consideration.

Or ... when a guy reaches the point Kirk is at in his career he realizes this is his last opportunity to get a big pay day. I think him and the Vikings will have issues on the length of the contract more than the amount. They'll probably want 1 year, he'll probably want 3, and I think there's a team out there that will give him 3 years.

If it comes down to money, Cousins will likely go elsewhere.

If it comes down to situation, he'll likely work it out, probably for a 2 year deal with an optional 3rd year.

Hard to say what will happen. I used to think Cousins was all about the money but I suspect he's looking at it differently now. He also knows a few extra million won't make or break his personal financial situation, while it might be the difference between the Vikings fielding a competitive team and keeping guys like JJ around.

I think Cousins is smarter than just chasing after the biggest payday.

[VikingsVictorious]

I decided to look at JJ's post because I was bored. I see him making an obviously incorrect statement and possibly a lie and call him out on it. He responds to my post by not responding to it at all. He did not address his incorrect statement/lie.

We all have a different perspective on what this team needs to finally win a SB. That's fine and it's been going on for a long time.
A message board is part of the entertainment of football and many other things. We will never all agree on the same thing. Some posters might not even be fans of the team and it's part of their entertainment to try an antagonize others. But your right Kirk took less money to come here. There's not many who will do that. Hunter won't take a big discount to stay here. He took his current deal and part of that was to be a FA this year. Surprise he wants money also. He already has enough to last generations. I look forward at this point in life and I'd rather have Kirk here than cycle through bum after bum after bum like we have seen this year. There is zero entertainment for me with that. It's hard to watch. I would do other things. Others might feel it's the best way forward and it's very entertaining. Our biggest problem is we can't draft well. Drafting is your life blood. That's only my opinion. Others might feel drafting means nothing. Now we will hit FA and it will start again. Lets sign this super star. The Bengals sign one of our super stars in FA Trae Waynes and they basically got nothing. We signed star Davenport for a ton of money and nothing. Myself and you have been fans of Kirk others it's the complete opposite and they want Dobbs or some rookie who will never make it.

My post had nothing to do with what it takes to win a SB. It had to do with JJ making stuff up. He was either A incorrect and posting stuff he didn't know what he was talking about or B making up an outright lie.

[J. Kapp 11]

Or ... when a guy reaches the point Kirk is at in his career he realizes this is his last opportunity to get a big pay day. I think him and the Vikings will have issues on the length of the contract more than the amount. They'll probably want 1 year, he'll probably want 3, and I think there's a team out there that will give him 3 years.

If it comes down to money, Cousins will likely go elsewhere.

If it comes down to situation, he'll likely work it out, probably for a 2 year deal with an optional 3rd year.

Hard to say what will happen. I used to think Cousins was all about the money but I suspect he's looking at it differently now. He also knows a few extra million won't make or break his personal financial situation, while it might be the difference between the Vikings fielding a competitive team and keeping guys like JJ around.

I think Cousins is smarter than just chasing after the biggest payday.

Totally agree on all points.

Kirk is a different guy than the person who darkened Mike Zimmer’s doorstep back in 2018. He’s comfortable in his own skin. He’s been treated really well the last couple of years. He loves playing for KOC. And he loves throwing to JJ, JA and TJ.

Of course he’s not going to play for peanuts. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he took below what he could get on the open market. His current dead cap hit for 2024 is $28.5 million. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the Vikings reduce that cap hit in signing him.

And if he walks, then I wish him well.

[Cliff]

Everybody says it’s out of character for Cousins to do anything but whatever it takes to get paid the most. The clips of him and his agent pitting the Jets and Vikings against one another are pretty strong evidence, as are the extensions he’s signed here in Minnesota after the original guaranteed contract.

But I still tend to believe he’d take less to stay with the Vikings. Here are my reasons.

1. He’s got weapons
With JJ, Addison and Hockenson, he’s got as good a trio of playmakers around him as any team in the league. Would he have that in Atlanta? Pittsburgh? Las Vegas?

2. He’s got KOC
In 2023, he played for the same OC for the second year in a row. It was the first time in his 11-year career. Not only that, KOC’s offense is perfectly suited to his skill set. I know there are some who think KOC is a bad playcaller … those people are wrong. He’s an exceptional playcaller, with an offensive architecture that schemes receivers open brilliantly. Would I be happy if he dropped every trick play he ever conceived? Yes. Did I love the tush push? Heck no. But the guy can set up a team to move the ball. Kirk has to love that.

3. He’s (finally) got the love
Think about this. Kirk has always — from the time he was a kid — been sort of an odd duck. Never terribly popular, and never the super-stud athlete you’d imagine an NFL quarterback to be. He wasn’t highly recruited out of HS. A good but not great college quarterback who wasn’t thought that highly of by scouts. Drafted in the same year as RGIII, almost a slap in the face. Never embraced by any head coach he had in Washington. Franchise tagged twice. Never wanted by Mike Zimmer, and hated by Zimmer eventually. Made the scapegoat by fans in both Washington and Minnesota.

Then comes KOC and the Netflix documentary, and everything changes.

KOC loves Kirk. Understands him. Values him, but doesn’t coddle him. Gets the best play out of Kirk in his life. And this year, he’s beginning to develop an understanding of KOC’s offense that has him playing at a near-MVP level.

Even more amazingly, the fans turn in his favor. As Kirk has loosened up and let down his guard, fans have embraced him. He’s going on the Manning Cast and killing it. He’s ripping off his shirt, donning the chains, and blowing the Gjallarhorn while fans go nuts.

Maybe for the first time ever, Kirk feels embraced. Like he belongs.

That’s why I think he’d take a discount. Where else is he going to get all this?

I can certainly understand money not being the primary motivator and those are good reasons for it. A switch went off for many Vikings fans after the documentary. A lot of the issue is that they viewed him as the "CEO of the team" or whatever the saying was. It made him seem just about the business side of things, kind of robotic, and that's an uninspiring player to get behind.

With the contract I think he'll be more worried about length and guaranteed money than total but it's not as if the Vikings won't pay him near "market value" anyway. They're probably not going to ask him to take a $5 million per year pay cut.

I'm interested to see what happens. I'm still not even 100% sure what I want to happen in regards to him. On one hand, Kirk coming back kind of represents the "competitive rebuild" idea. You're not "rebuilding" the team with a 35 year old QB. On the other hand, I'm not completely opposed to the competitive rebuild idea to some degree. This team has a lot of good players on it and there's no need in breaking it all down in the name of rebuilding so there has to be some balance somewhere.

[Cliff]

Or ... when a guy reaches the point Kirk is at in his career he realizes this is his last opportunity to get a big pay day. I think him and the Vikings will have issues on the length of the contract more than the amount. They'll probably want 1 year, he'll probably want 3, and I think there's a team out there that will give him 3 years.

If it comes down to money, Cousins will likely go elsewhere.

If it comes down to situation, he'll likely work it out, probably for a 2 year deal with an optional 3rd year.

Hard to say what will happen. I used to think Cousins was all about the money but I suspect he's looking at it differently now. He also knows a few extra million won't make or break his personal financial situation, while it might be the difference between the Vikings fielding a competitive team and keeping guys like JJ around.

I think Cousins is smarter than just chasing after the biggest payday.

You may be right there.

Though I'm not sure I would categorize him chasing the biggest pay day as stupid but it would be disappointing.

[Cliff]

Franchise next moves: Sign Cousins for 2 seasons assuming a full recovery. Then draft a QB in the 1st round this year and let him sit until Cousins is gone.

GB has a strategy that is obviously working.

If Green Bay was offered a do over on the drafting of Love I think they'd decline.

[CharVike]

Everybody says it’s out of character for Cousins to do anything but whatever it takes to get paid the most. The clips of him and his agent pitting the Jets and Vikings against one another are pretty strong evidence, as are the extensions he’s signed here in Minnesota after the original guaranteed contract.

But I still tend to believe he’d take less to stay with the Vikings. Here are my reasons.

1. He’s got weapons
With JJ, Addison and Hockenson, he’s got as good a trio of playmakers around him as any team in the league. Would he have that in Atlanta? Pittsburgh? Las Vegas?

2. He’s got KOC
In 2023, he played for the same OC for the second year in a row. It was the first time in his 11-year career. Not only that, KOC’s offense is perfectly suited to his skill set. I know there are some who think KOC is a bad playcaller … those people are wrong. He’s an exceptional playcaller, with an offensive architecture that schemes receivers open brilliantly. Would I be happy if he dropped every trick play he ever conceived? Yes. Did I love the tush push? Heck no. But the guy can set up a team to move the ball. Kirk has to love that.

3. He’s (finally) got the love
Think about this. Kirk has always — from the time he was a kid — been sort of an odd duck. Never terribly popular, and never the super-stud athlete you’d imagine an NFL quarterback to be. He wasn’t highly recruited out of HS. A good but not great college quarterback who wasn’t thought that highly of by scouts. Drafted in the same year as RGIII, almost a slap in the face. Never embraced by any head coach he had in Washington. Franchise tagged twice. Never wanted by Mike Zimmer, and hated by Zimmer eventually. Made the scapegoat by fans in both Washington and Minnesota.

Then comes KOC and the Netflix documentary, and everything changes.

KOC loves Kirk. Understands him. Values him, but doesn’t coddle him. Gets the best play out of Kirk in his life. And this year, he’s beginning to develop an understanding of KOC’s offense that has him playing at a near-MVP level.

Even more amazingly, the fans turn in his favor. As Kirk has loosened up and let down his guard, fans have embraced him. He’s going on the Manning Cast and killing it. He’s ripping off his shirt, donning the chains, and blowing the Gjallarhorn while fans go nuts.

Maybe for the first time ever, Kirk feels embraced. Like he belongs.

That’s why I think he’d take a discount. Where else is he going to get all this?

I can certainly understand money not being the primary motivator and those are good reasons for it. A switch went off for many Vikings fans after the documentary. A lot of the issue is that they viewed him as the "CEO of the team" or whatever the saying was. It made him seem just about the business side of things, kind of robotic, and that's an uninspiring player to get behind.

With the contract I think he'll be more worried about length and guaranteed money than total but it's not as if the Vikings won't pay him near "market value" anyway. They're probably not going to ask him to take a $5 million per year pay cut.

I'm interested to see what happens. I'm still not even 100% sure what I want to happen in regards to him. On one hand, Kirk coming back kind of represents the "competitive rebuild" idea. You're not "rebuilding" the team with a 35 year old QB. On the other hand, I'm not completely opposed to the competitive rebuild idea to some degree. This team has a lot of good players on it and there's no need in breaking it all down in the name of rebuilding so there has to be some balance somewhere.

All these non SB contender teams that win 10 or so games and maybe make the playoffs are in competitive rebuilds. The NFL loves that. Puts bodies in the seats and in front of a screen. The Rams are a perfect example of in a competitive rebuild but doing it how it needs to be done. They have an ancient QB. From what I saw he still can throw the ball very well and his drop back is quick. Not too many are better and are extremely hard to find. Plus they have a GM who can draft. That's the life blood for a team. Snap of a finger 4 rookie starters this year. I'm not talking an Ingram type of bum starter who never should have seen the field. Look what they drafted. A WR taken in round 5 who broke many rookie WR records. An edge rusher with 8 sacks. A guard who can play the game. A DT tackle who can play. That's knocking it out of the park. When I read that I was impressed. That's what Kewsi is missing and why he needs to hit the FA junk yard for some bodies to fill holes. He better hit it this year. He's in a great spot to grab a top talent position player.

[Cliff]

Cousins is definitely not aiming for the Vikings specifically.

With Cousins set to hit free agency in March, he could be looking for a new coach to play for. If that coach is Belichick, Cousins would certainly be interested.

"I'm not going to turn down an opportunity to play with a future Hall of Fame coach, but we'll have to see where March leads," Cousins told CBS Sports.

[CharVike]

Cousins is definitely not aiming for the Vikings specifically.

With Cousins set to hit free agency in March, he could be looking for a new coach to play for. If that coach is Belichick, Cousins would certainly be interested.

"I'm not going to turn down an opportunity to play with a future Hall of Fame coach, but we'll have to see where March leads," Cousins told CBS Sports.

I saw that and what should he say? The guy can't coach anymore and he's a cheater? I also see we might trade for R Wilson. The HC wants him out and he will kill a teams cap. People are trying to create something out of nothing. But Atlanta has a good base team. They have one of the top OLs in the NFL which will be a huge plus for any QB and they have a good defense. Cousins would listen regardless of coach. For once in his career he'll have an OL. Better than sitting back and getting pounded game after game.

[CharVike]

If Green Bay was offered a do over on the drafting of Love I think they'd decline.

I don't think they would decline because there is never a bunch of decent QBs laying around doing nothing but they will be faced with a huge cap decision soon. That last play when Love threw that dead duck into the middle of the field showed some interesting things. First Love saw imaginary pass rushers coming at him and he bailed out. His pocket was clean. That shows a lack of pocket awareness. Then he threw across his body which is always risky. Love didn't look good early in the year because his OL wasn't playing good. The Pack OL stepped up during the second half of the season and Love looked much better. Same old story. I just hope the Packers GM don't dangle Love in front of Kewsi. He gave up a pick for Dobbs so he might give the farm away for Love.

[Cliff]

I don't think they would decline because there is never a bunch of decent QBs laying around doing nothing but they will be faced with a huge cap decision soon. That last play when Love threw that dead duck into the middle of the field showed some interesting things. First Love saw imaginary pass rushers coming at him and he bailed out. His pocket was clean. That shows a lack of pocket awareness. Then he threw across his body which is always risky. Love didn't look good early in the year because his OL wasn't playing good. The Pack OL stepped up during the second half of the season and Love looked much better. Same old story. I just hope the Packers GM don't dangle Love in front of Kewsi. He gave up a pick for Dobbs so he might give the farm away for Love.

This is his first year starting so I imagine he's got a bit of learning left. I know in his first season he took an average team and got a playoff victory. He now has the same number of playoff wins as Cousins.

[makila]

Jordan Love, in year ONE starting, has as many playoff wins as our QB in year 10 or whatever. Bash him? Love played very well down the stretch this year. With no WR even in the same world as JJ. Looks like GB has their next qb. GB wasn't supposed to make the playoff this year. Let alone win a game. Did he make a poor decision at the end of the game? Yup. He also had some very impressive throws during the game. If you think there is no way for someone to grow or learn, after their FIRST year starting, I question the logic.

They have a direction. We don't.

Even Tom Brady lost games during his playoff career.

[CharVike]

I don't think they would decline because there is never a bunch of decent QBs laying around doing nothing but they will be faced with a huge cap decision soon. That last play when Love threw that dead duck into the middle of the field showed some interesting things. First Love saw imaginary pass rushers coming at him and he bailed out. His pocket was clean. That shows a lack of pocket awareness. Then he threw across his body which is always risky. Love didn't look good early in the year because his OL wasn't playing good. The Pack OL stepped up during the second half of the season and Love looked much better. Same old story. I just hope the Packers GM don't dangle Love in front of Kewsi. He gave up a pick for Dobbs so he might give the farm away for Love.

This is his first year starting so I imagine he's got a bit of learning left. I know in his first season he took an average team and got a playoff victory. He now has the same number of playoff wins as Cousins.

I posted I don't think they would decline the pick of Love. I also posted his OL got better as the season went along. The 49ers have a very good D and the Packer RB Jones rushed for over 100 yards. I think that helps a QB when you can run the ball. I think the Packers played better as a team as they progressed through the season. We hammered them early in the season and they hammered us the second time around. We beat the 49ers but I highly doubt we could have done it after week 8. To win in the playoffs your entire team better play well our you will get beat. Dak just got beat again but his D didn't show up. Jimmy G has one of the best playoff records of all current QBs and he can't even keep a starting job. Love could go on to be another Packer HOF QB I certainly don't want to see that. I already watched 2 in a row and that's enough for me.