PHP's Official Vikings Mock Offseason

[Cliff]

I don't think Reagor is going anywhere. They gave up a 4th and 7th for him and if I had to guess they're still hoping to turn him around into a #2 or #3 receiver. I certainly don't expect them to give up on him after a season. I'm still holding out hope that McCardell can fix him up.

[StumpHunter]

I don't think Reagor is going anywhere. They gave up a 4th and 7th for him and if I had to guess they're still hoping to turn him around into a #2 or #3 receiver. I certainly don't expect them to give up on him after a season. I'm still holding out hope that McCardell can fix him up.

I think you are falling into the same trap our GM did, and valuing where he was drafted over what he has done over 3 seasons in the NFL.

He should have cost the Vikings any chance of winning that Colts game with his play, and his punt returning isn't good even when he manages to field punts cleanly. Cutting him is addition by subtraction and I would prefer McCardell were putting in the work to improve some other WR, not one who has had 3 seasons to improve and hasn't.

[Cliff]

I don't think Reagor is going anywhere. They gave up a 4th and 7th for him and if I had to guess they're still hoping to turn him around into a #2 or #3 receiver. I certainly don't expect them to give up on him after a season. I'm still holding out hope that McCardell can fix him up.

I think you are falling into the same trap our GM did, and valuing where he was drafted over what he has done over 3 seasons in the NFL.

He should have cost the Vikings any chance of winning that Colts game with his play, and his punt returning isn't good even when he manages to field punts cleanly. Cutting him is addition by subtraction and I would prefer McCardell were putting in the work to improve some other WR, not one who has had 3 seasons to improve and hasn't.

I can appreciate that point of view. Perhaps it will depend what his offseason looks like. I they think he's made good progress they'll probably keep him and if not they'll probably cut him and give the spot to someone that probably isn't even on the team at this point.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Didnt realize this but I guess NFL teams are allowed to designate 2 players as a post June 1st cut prior to free agency. I think this is a no-brainer for someone like Thielen. If he's designated post June 1, that saves us like $13 million compared to if he was a pre-June 1, he would only save us $6 million. This would also be an option for someone like Dalvin Cook, although Dalvin definitely carries trade value where Thielen doesnt carry much.

[IIsweet]

Didnt realize this but I guess NFL teams are allowed to designate 2 players as a post June 1st cut prior to free agency. I think this is a no-brainer for someone like Thielen. If he's designated post June 1, that saves us like $13 million compared to if he was a pre-June 1, he would only save us $6 million. This would also be an option for someone like Dalvin Cook, although Dalvin definitely carries trade value where Thielen doesnt carry much.

Oh wow.... I didn't know that either. That makes perfect sense for Thielen. He will carry that designation and his agent will be able to shop him for a new team and best contract possible. Kwesi can sell it as we are doing what we feel is in the best interest of both you and the organization. This allows you to know up front what we are doing, and you have time to find your fit. We would love for you to stay here, but the current contract has to be torn up.
I agree that Dalvin has trade value. I feel Zadarius does as well. So, these guys are to be traded for draft picks IMO. I know that they are mock drafts, on PFF mock simulator, but I trade them both every time and feel very good about the players I end up adding to replace them. A few players I keep getting lately include rush OLB Herzig from Wisconsin, DT Benton from Wisconsin, and RB McBride from UAB.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Didnt realize this but I guess NFL teams are allowed to designate 2 players as a post June 1st cut prior to free agency. I think this is a no-brainer for someone like Thielen. If he's designated post June 1, that saves us like $13 million compared to if he was a pre-June 1, he would only save us $6 million. This would also be an option for someone like Dalvin Cook, although Dalvin definitely carries trade value where Thielen doesnt carry much.

Oh wow.... I didn't know that either. That makes perfect sense for Thielen. He will carry that designation and his agent will be able to shop him for a new team and best contract possible. Kwesi can sell it as we are doing what we feel is in the best interest of both you and the organization. This allows you to know up front what we are doing, and you have time to find your fit. We would love for you to stay here, but the current contract has to be torn up.
I agree that Dalvin has trade value. I feel Zadarius does as well. So, these guys are to be traded for draft picks IMO. I know that they are mock drafts, on PFF mock simulator, but I trade them both every time and feel very good about the players I end up adding to replace them. A few players I keep getting lately include rush OLB Herzig from Wisconsin, DT Benton from Wisconsin, and RB McBride from UAB.

Agreed with Zadarius as well. I had us trading him also in this mock. I think even someone like Dantzler carries trade value (depending on what we want to do at CB in FA). But yeah they talked about it on the Purple Daily podcast. I guess each team is allowed to do this with 2 players.

[IIsweet]

I do not know who put it out there about Purple Daily, but I want to say Thank You.
I have been watching every day for the past few weeks and love it. I told my brother, and he now listens every night. I love it when Boone is on there and I like listening to Thor and his insight and knowledge of these draft prospects.

PHP, I do not know about Dantzler garnering trade value. I keep him !!! I would like to see how he does with Flores.
I think that he has been drastically underutilized and not playing to his skill set. Here is his draft profile before the combine, which he ran a 4.38. He is now 6'2 and 190pounds which is exactly what Kwesi wants in length and speed.

2020 NFL COMBINE INVITE: Cameron Dantzler, CB, Mississippi State,...Lockdown, lengthy cornerback who was a two-year starter for the Bulldogs...One of the team leaders on defense...Added weight throughout career and became more physical and explosive...Appeared in 35 career games with 22 starts...Opted to forgo final season of eligibility and entered the 2020 NFL Draft...All-SEC second team as a sophomore in 2018...Elite in coverage during his last two seasons, allowing just 36 catches for 459 yards on 568 coverage snaps...One of the top tackling and pass-rushing cornerbacks in the nation...Totaled 108 career tackles, including 6.0 for loss and 1.5 sacks.

I do not think that Zimmer helped and used his ability to the fullest, plus he was young and we all know where that stands with Zim, and we all know that Onatell(No D) definitely did not utilize his pass rushing ability either.
I am expecting and Hoping.... for a much improved Dantzler this season. I expect him to be a starter with Booth and Evans. Hit Man and Cine at safety.

[StumpHunter]

Didnt realize this but I guess NFL teams are allowed to designate 2 players as a post June 1st cut prior to free agency. I think this is a no-brainer for someone like Thielen. If he's designated post June 1, that saves us like $13 million compared to if he was a pre-June 1, he would only save us $6 million. This would also be an option for someone like Dalvin Cook, although Dalvin definitely carries trade value where Thielen doesnt carry much.

The post June 1st designation only impacts signing bonus. That means the Vikings wouldn't save that full 13 million until June 1st after free agency has mostly wrapped up. The initial savings would be 2 million versus the 6 if they just outright cut him, and then they would get that extra 11 million after June 1st.

This would be useful if Thielen's signing bonus coming due was significantly more than his actual salary owed, but since it isn't, I don't think the Vikings will take advantage. I could be wrong, and the Vikings are in such dire straights that they need that extra 7 million to give an extension to JJ and Hunter, but I think the extra 4 million at the start of free agency is more valuable to them.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Didnt realize this but I guess NFL teams are allowed to designate 2 players as a post June 1st cut prior to free agency. I think this is a no-brainer for someone like Thielen. If he's designated post June 1, that saves us like $13 million compared to if he was a pre-June 1, he would only save us $6 million. This would also be an option for someone like Dalvin Cook, although Dalvin definitely carries trade value where Thielen doesnt carry much.

The post June 1st designation only impacts signing bonus. That means the Vikings wouldn't save that full 13 million until June 1st after free agency has mostly wrapped up. The initial savings would be 2 million versus the 6 if they just outright cut him, and then they would get that extra 11 million after June 1st.

This would be useful if Thielen's signing bonus coming due was significantly more than his actual salary owed, but since it isn't, I don't think the Vikings will take advantage. I could be wrong, and the Vikings are in such dire straights that they need that extra 7 million to give an extension to JJ and Hunter, but I think the extra 4 million at the start of free agency is more valuable to them.

But with the Jefferson extension, that cap hit doesnt kick in until 2024 correct? I would love to take a class on cap management. I'm really good with numbers, but also feel like there are so many things that go into salary cap and so many loop holes that I dont know about or quite understand. I just want to be a fly on the wall in these meetings to hear it from the horses mouth.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I do not know who put it out there about Purple Daily, but I want to say Thank You.
I have been watching every day for the past few weeks and love it. I told my brother, and he now listens every night. I love it when Boone is on there and I like listening to Thor and his insight and knowledge of these draft prospects.

haha yeah I've referred to Purple Daily a lot on here. I've been listening to them going on two years now. I was actually on the show two offseasons ago. They did an episode on the Packers urinal I made for Kramer and we talked draft. If you type into youtube, "Tommy Kramer Packers Urinal", the Purple Daily episode will pop up.

PHP, I do not know about Dantzler garnering trade value. I keep him !!! I would like to see how he does with Flores.
I think that he has been drastically underutilized and not playing to his skill set. Here is his draft profile before the combine, which he ran a 4.38. He is now 6'2 and 190pounds which is exactly what Kwesi wants in length and speed.

2020 NFL COMBINE INVITE: Cameron Dantzler, CB, Mississippi State,...Lockdown, lengthy cornerback who was a two-year starter for the Bulldogs...One of the team leaders on defense...Added weight throughout career and became more physical and explosive...Appeared in 35 career games with 22 starts...Opted to forgo final season of eligibility and entered the 2020 NFL Draft...All-SEC second team as a sophomore in 2018...Elite in coverage during his last two seasons, allowing just 36 catches for 459 yards on 568 coverage snaps...One of the top tackling and pass-rushing cornerbacks in the nation...Totaled 108 career tackles, including 6.0 for loss and 1.5 sacks.

I do not think that Zimmer helped and used his ability to the fullest, plus he was young and we all know where that stands with Zim, and we all know that Onatell(No D) definitely did not utilize his pass rushing ability either.
I am expecting and Hoping.... for a much improved Dantzler this season. I expect him to be a starter with Booth and Evans. Hit Man and Cine at safety.

I'm not totally against keeping Dantzler. I've been a big backer of his since he was drafted. He definitely fits Flores' system more than he did Donatell's. Where as someone like Patrick Peterson fit Donatell much more than he would Flores. If they are going to keep Dantzler, I just want them to fully commit to him and let him showcase his talents in this style defense.

[StumpHunter]

The post June 1st designation only impacts signing bonus. That means the Vikings wouldn't save that full 13 million until June 1st after free agency has mostly wrapped up. The initial savings would be 2 million versus the 6 if they just outright cut him, and then they would get that extra 11 million after June 1st.

This would be useful if Thielen's signing bonus coming due was significantly more than his actual salary owed, but since it isn't, I don't think the Vikings will take advantage. I could be wrong, and the Vikings are in such dire straights that they need that extra 7 million to give an extension to JJ and Hunter, but I think the extra 4 million at the start of free agency is more valuable to them.

But with the Jefferson extension, that cap hit doesnt kick in until 2024 correct? I would love to take a class on cap management. I'm really good with numbers, but also feel like there are so many things that go into salary cap and so many loop holes that I dont know about or quite understand. I just want to be a fly on the wall in these meetings to hear it from the horses mouth.

The big cap hit won't be until 2024, but there will still be a cost in 2023 since there will likely be signing bonus involved. Not more than 5 million though.

It all has to do with salary versus signing bonus. With a guy like Hockenson who has a large salary you can decrease his cap hit this year by converting some of that salary to signing bonus and spreading it over the length of the contract. With JJ and Hunter, their salaries are so low that there isn't that much salary to convert, so the signing bonus those players will want will end up just costing the team more this season.

Hockenson Example:
Convert 8.5 million salary to signing bonus + 10 in signing bonus he will want as part of his extension (vet minimum is about 1 million for a 5 year vet and you can't go under that)

Spread that over a 5 year extension + the current year and that is 3.0 million per year in signing bonus. Add that back onto the 1 million and you have a savings of 5.5 million in 2023.

Clear as mud.

JJ example:

Could convert at most 1.2 million in salary to signing bonus, which would save 1 million if it was spread out over 6 seasons. But then he would also want at least 20 million in signing bonus, which spread out over 6 seasons would end up costing the Vikings 2.3 (3.3 - 1 saved) million in 2023.

That 20 million is kind of low though, so probably more like an extra 4 million in 2023.

[Pondering Her Percy]

But with the Jefferson extension, that cap hit doesnt kick in until 2024 correct? I would love to take a class on cap management. I'm really good with numbers, but also feel like there are so many things that go into salary cap and so many loop holes that I dont know about or quite understand. I just want to be a fly on the wall in these meetings to hear it from the horses mouth.

The big cap hit won't be until 2024, but there will still be a cost in 2023 since there will likely be signing bonus involved. Not more than 5 million though.

It all has to do with salary versus signing bonus. With a guy like Hockenson who has a large salary you can decrease his cap hit this year by converting some of that salary to signing bonus and spreading it over the length of the contract. With JJ and Hunter, their salaries are so low that there isn't that much salary to convert, so the signing bonus those players will want will end up just costing the team more this season.

Hockenson Example:
Convert 8.5 million salary to signing bonus + 10 in signing bonus he will want as part of his extension (vet minimum is about 1 million for a 5 year vet and you can't go under that)

Spread that over a 5 year extension + the current year and that is 3.0 million per year in signing bonus. Add that back onto the 1 million and you have a savings of 5.5 million in 2023.

Clear as mud.

JJ example:

Could convert at most 1.2 million in salary to signing bonus, which would save 1 million if it was spread out over 6 seasons. But then he would also want at least 20 million in signing bonus, which spread out over 6 seasons would end up costing the Vikings 2.3 (3.3 - 1 saved) million in 2023.

That 20 million is kind of low though, so probably more like an extra 4 million in 2023.

Thanks for the explanation!

[Pondering Her Percy]

I'm 2 for 2 with the Flores signing and Kendricks cut....lets see how long this streak lasts for

[Texas Vike]

I'm 2 for 2 with the Flores signing and Kendricks cut....lets see how long this streak lasts for

Call your shot, what happens next? Thielen cut?

Some big moves on other teams too: Carr to Saints, Daniel Jones signed by Giants for 4 years @ 160 million! (He should give Donatell a part of that, honestly). Sounds like Derek Henry is being shopped and Saquon may be as well. Tis the season for big moves.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I'm 2 for 2 with the Flores signing and Kendricks cut....lets see how long this streak lasts for

Call your shot, what happens next? Thielen cut?

Some big moves on other teams too: Carr to Saints, Daniel Jones signed by Giants for 4 years @ 160 million! (He should give Donatell a part of that, honestly). Sounds like Derek Henry is being shopped and Saquon may be as well. Tis the season for big moves.

haha Thielen next, Hicks to follow!