Donatell Gone

[psjordan]

They are not headed in the right direction

Not sure I agree with this part if for no other reason not enough time to determine, but ...

and I hope the Wilfs realize, after watching 4 really good teams make it to the conference championship, just how far away the Vikings are and allow Kwesi to actually do his job and build a championship.

I do agree with this part.

So to quote Jamiroquai, "Where Do We Go From Here?"

For me the questions surrounding KAM and KOC moving forward at this stage has a lot to do with how they reacted/adjusted during the season as fate handed things out.

This roster was not very deep, a mostly inherited condition. To some extent we were lucky that Cousins can take such a beating and continue to play. The alternatives (Mullens and Rosen, Attorneys at Law) were not going to get us bupkus during any of our games. No way this team could have handled that situation like Philly or SF have.

So what did we add and lose during the season, and how did we react? Well 90% of our transactions were the typical NFL practice squad/IR back and forth machinations, really not adding up to much. Of note, here is what I'd list under adds (disregarding 2022 draft, which did not add much to the play on the field anyways) and losses:

Notable Add:
Duke Shelley (FA)
TJ Hockenson (Trade)
Jalen Reagor (Trade)

Notable Lost:
Bisi Johnson (ACL)
Lewis Cine (Fractured leg)
Irv Smith (always one thing or another)
Cam Dantzler (ankle)
Andrew Booth (meniscus)
Akayleb Evans (concussion)
Blake Brandel (MCL - bad timing more than huge loss)
Brian O'Neill (achilles)

Shelley and Hock were big wins, Reagor it seems we overpaid for at this point.

As I see it, getting back the "lost" list will help this team but not in a hugely substantive way. Our schedule gets harder in 2023 and getting that list back might allow us to tread water in the talent pool. It won't make our LB's any faster.

Moving forward, the nut of it all for the GM/HC will be who do we hire as DC and WHAT DO WE DO IN THE 2023 DRAFT. Unfortunately, we don't have many picks, which makes me worry we'll give up quality slots for quantity in later rounds, and KAM's ability to find gems later is unproven at best - and nonexistent at worst. Certainly this team's track record borders on dismal in later rounds.

Simply put, I do not see any easy or even "readily apparent" solutions to what ails this roster. Unless we absolutely NAIL the new DC and say two upcoming draft choices, I see a lot of wheel spinning for a few years yet. And during that time we'll have to address the future at QB, which makes it even more of a whirlwind. Life of a Vikes fan.

[CharVike]

In terms of consistent contender as measured on a multi-year ability to compete for a berth in the Superbowl, not since the first half of the 70's.

In terms of a team that was capable of making it to a Superbowl, the 1987 team could have done it, as could the 1998 and 2009 teams. None of those teams were sustainable models, but each had pieces that, when the stars aligned, were capable of getting to and possibly winning their respective Superbowl. Unfortunately, the stars didn't align fully for any of them.

I think the 2001 and 2017 teams were pretenders who lucked into some fortunate post-season outcomes that enabled them to go farther than they otherwise would have. The 2001 team benefited from the Saints knocking the Rams out early, while the 2017 team benefited from the Saints having a safety who was so keen to avoid a PI call that he also avoided preventing a walk-off TD.

Post 2017, I'd say the Vikings have been almost as consistently far from being a Superbowl contender as any period in their history. They've had much worse teams some of those years, but in terms of ceiling they're not close, and there is almost no evidence they are improving year-over-year in that regard, either. They're a lot like the early 90's versions of the Vikings under Denny Green - competitive for the playoffs and perennially searching to plug what seem like intractable holes in the roster, but not much more. Green's early 90's teams had the excuse of the draft fallout from the Walker trade, however, as an explanation for his inability to plug those holes. The Vikings of these last several years don't have that excuse - they've just largely been bad at finding talent in the latter rounds of recent drafts, especially on the defensive side of the football.

Not only do they not have that excuse, they also don't have near the regular season success. Denny made the playoffs 8 out of his 10 seasons as a head coach and one of those years had the best Vikings team I have seen in my lifetime. They had a 260 point differential, and won by an average of 16.3 points. Only the 1969 SB losing Vikings were better in the regular season.

Since 2017, the Vikings have made the playoffs twice and are going on 3 straight seasons of a negative point differential. They gave up one more point over last season, and scored 1 fewer despite moving on from a head coach who was supposedly holding both the offense and defense. They are not headed in the right direction and I hope the Wilfs realize, after watching 4 really good teams make it to the conference championship, just how far away the Vikings are and allow Kwesi to actually do his job and build a championship.

We had one of if not the worse drafts in the NFL last season. That's doing your job with an F grade. That needs to be fixed now. Get to work Kwesi.

[MossCarterJefferson]

If Vikings hire Pettine then I am not going to be watching any Viking games next year, there is a reason Pettine did not last more than 3 years as defensive coordinator and that is because Pettine SUCKS

[MossCarterJefferson]

Not only do they not have that excuse, they also don't have near the regular season success. Denny made the playoffs 8 out of his 10 seasons as a head coach and one of those years had the best Vikings team I have seen in my lifetime. They had a 260 point differential, and won by an average of 16.3 points. Only the 1969 SB losing Vikings were better in the regular season.

Since 2017, the Vikings have made the playoffs twice and are going on 3 straight seasons of a negative point differential. They gave up one more point over last season, and scored 1 fewer despite moving on from a head coach who was supposedly holding both the offense and defense. They are not headed in the right direction and I hope the Wilfs realize, after watching 4 really good teams make it to the conference championship, just how far away the Vikings are and allow Kwesi to actually do his job and build a championship.

We had one of if not the worse drafts in the NFL last season. That's doing your job with an F grade. That needs to be fixed now. Get to work Kwesi.

That is not fair to judge since Booth and Cine was both injuried

[Foreman44]

We had one of if not the worse drafts in the NFL last season. That's doing your job with an F grade. That needs to be fixed now. Get to work Kwesi.

That is not fair to judge since Booth and Cine was both injuried

But.... wasn’t injuries a part of there past history. Didn’t they drop in the draft a little because of it." Then look at this year. How much game time did they play.injuries still following. Does history follow next year" Maybe it was a gamble they might lose....I think they can. Be included in being a bad draft.if they don’t play.

[CharVike]

We had one of if not the worse drafts in the NFL last season. That's doing your job with an F grade. That needs to be fixed now. Get to work Kwesi.

That is not fair to judge since Booth and Cine was both injuried

You won't find a single report giving us a high grade. We were in slot 12. That's a good spot to be in. If both those 2 you just mentioned are good starters next year then I'll say I was wrong. Year 1 which is part of the draft they did nothing.

[Foreman44]

I may have been wrong on injury history. Last year was a waste. Hopefully the future paint a brighter story.

[chicagopurple]

Yeah, I am not a fan of drafting players with histories of back injuries and assuming that is will just go away. They rarely do. We have done this before with front lineman with histories of back problems, I dont know if our team doctors are silly optimists or if the front office just ignores medical records but when a player drops in the rankings due to back problems, its a bad idea to pursue

[IIsweet]

I don't think Cine had an injury history? Booth did for sure though. However, as I heard someone else say, Cine and Booth have very high ceilings. They bring athleticism and length to the team. Actually, that is what Kwesi is attempting to do. Get younger, more athletic, longer, and faster on the defensive side of the ball. It is very apparent that he values the explosive athlete.
As for a bad draft? I believe that Cine is starting next year. Booth? I am not sure yet. He has to show more. Ingram will be very good once he gets taught better pass blocking skills, but is definitely starting. Alex Boone believes in this kid, so why wouldn't I? Asamoah showed out great in his limited opportunities and will be starting next year. I thought Evans showed a lot considering a mid rd CB before the concussions ended his season. If fully recovered, My $ is on him either starting or being the nickel CB. Otomewo shows like he could be a long time player to me as a 3-4 DE. All Pro? No, but a contributing player definitely and maybe a starter. Chandler showed a lot in preseason to make the coaches excited for his future. Nailor has every chance to be the starter at the #2 or #3 WR slot next season.
So for the draft grades... I disagree. Kwesi was left an absolute mess of old players and terrible contracts. He had 2 options. 1) blow it up, or 2) a competitive rebuild. So #2 was the choice. Who thought that this aging defense would be ranked amongst the league worst? But, new scheme and we go with the veterans. But we loyal fans, got to watch our longtime favorite players again. At some point, the rebuild must continue and the roster turned over. IT IS TIME !!! and I sure hope that last year's "poor draft" will pay big dividends and have players all over the field next season.

[CharVike]

I don't think Cine had an injury history? Booth did for sure though. However, as I heard someone else say, Cine and Booth have very high ceilings. They bring athleticism and length to the team. Actually, that is what Kwesi is attempting to do. Get younger, more athletic, longer, and faster on the defensive side of the ball. It is very apparent that he values the explosive athlete.
As for a bad draft? I believe that Cine is starting next year. Booth? I am not sure yet. He has to show more. Ingram will be very good once he gets taught better pass blocking skills, but is definitely starting. Alex Boone believes in this kid, so why wouldn't I? Asamoah showed out great in his limited opportunities and will be starting next year. I thought Evans showed a lot considering a mid rd CB before the concussions ended his season. If fully recovered, My $ is on him either starting or being the nickel CB. Otomewo shows like he could be a long time player to me as a 3-4 DE. All Pro? No, but a contributing player definitely and maybe a starter. Chandler showed a lot in preseason to make the coaches excited for his future. Nailor has every chance to be the starter at the #2 or #3 WR slot next season.
So for the draft grades... I disagree. Kwesi was left an absolute mess of old players and terrible contracts. He had 2 options. 1) blow it up, or 2) a competitive rebuild. So #2 was the choice. Who thought that this aging defense would be ranked amongst the league worst? But, new scheme and we go with the veterans. But we loyal fans, got to watch our longtime favorite players again. At some point, the rebuild must continue and the roster turned over. IT IS TIME !!! and I sure hope that last year's "poor draft" will pay big dividends and have players all over the field next season.

Just because a guy can run doesn't mean he can play football. We have the fastest CB I think 4.2. were is he. Pinhead let Hamilton and a few other safeties go bye. Some said Hamilton blows because his 40 time suck. This isn't a track event. Some players see a play and they know where to go. That more than makes up for that .1 track speed slowness. It's not a straight line game. There's been some dam good secondary players who were slow. If you break on the ball quickly that makes up for speed. If you turn quickly and it goes on. Cine ran his mouth about smashing people. That's a stupid player. There's no Kent state university in the NFL. These people hit.

[allday1991]

I don't think Cine had an injury history? Booth did for sure though. However, as I heard someone else say, Cine and Booth have very high ceilings. They bring athleticism and length to the team. Actually, that is what Kwesi is attempting to do. Get younger, more athletic, longer, and faster on the defensive side of the ball. It is very apparent that he values the explosive athlete.
As for a bad draft? I believe that Cine is starting next year. Booth? I am not sure yet. He has to show more. Ingram will be very good once he gets taught better pass blocking skills, but is definitely starting. Alex Boone believes in this kid, so why wouldn't I? Asamoah showed out great in his limited opportunities and will be starting next year. I thought Evans showed a lot considering a mid rd CB before the concussions ended his season. If fully recovered, My $ is on him either starting or being the nickel CB. Otomewo shows like he could be a long time player to me as a 3-4 DE. All Pro? No, but a contributing player definitely and maybe a starter. Chandler showed a lot in preseason to make the coaches excited for his future. Nailor has every chance to be the starter at the #2 or #3 WR slot next season.
So for the draft grades... I disagree. Kwesi was left an absolute mess of old players and terrible contracts. He had 2 options. 1) blow it up, or 2) a competitive rebuild. So #2 was the choice. Who thought that this aging defense would be ranked amongst the league worst? But, new scheme and we go with the veterans. But we loyal fans, got to watch our longtime favorite players again. At some point, the rebuild must continue and the roster turned over. IT IS TIME !!! and I sure hope that last year's "poor draft" will pay big dividends and have players all over the field next season.

Just because a guy can run doesn't mean he can play football. We have the fastest CB I think 4.2. were is he. Pinhead let Hamilton and a few other safeties go bye. Some said Hamilton blows because his 40 time suck. This isn't a track event. Some players see a play and they know where to go. That more than makes up for that .1 track speed slowness. It's not a straight line game. There's been some dam good secondary players who were slow. If you break on the ball quickly that makes up for speed. If you turn quickly and it goes on. Cine ran his mouth about smashing people. That's a stupid player. There's no Kent state university in the NFL. These people hit.

Even Davis at 12 would have added more to the team this year than Cine and Booth combined along with depth and rotation at the dline. Sure next year might be different but as it stands atm it isn’t. I hated the trade when it first happened and a year hasn’t changed anything.

[StanM]

Not only do they not have that excuse, they also don't have near the regular season success. Denny made the playoffs 8 out of his 10 seasons as a head coach and one of those years had the best Vikings team I have seen in my lifetime. They had a 260 point differential, and won by an average of 16.3 points. Only the 1969 SB losing Vikings were better in the regular season.

Since 2017, the Vikings have made the playoffs twice and are going on 3 straight seasons of a negative point differential. They gave up one more point over last season, and scored 1 fewer despite moving on from a head coach who was supposedly holding both the offense and defense. They are not headed in the right direction and I hope the Wilfs realize, after watching 4 really good teams make it to the conference championship, just how far away the Vikings are and allow Kwesi to actually do his job and build a championship.

We had one of if not the worse drafts in the NFL last season. That's doing your job with an F grade. That needs to be fixed now. Get to work Kwesi.

The idea that the success of the draft is all on KAM is absurd. We have a scouting department and coaches that communicate their needs and advise the GM to target certain players if possible with their draft picks. It’s a collaborative effort and not entirely on any one individual.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Guys that keep ragging on Cine.... relax. Sure, he wasnt our day 1 starter from the jump. Big deal, doesnt mean a damn thing. He ended up breaking his leg in the 4th game of the season. Like is that really what we use to judge rookies on now? The first 4 games of the season? Kyle Hamilton wasnt considered a starter until week 15 of the season this year. Yeah he was playing but playing in package roles.

For whoever said Cine is a stupid player for him saying he loves blowing up guys....not sure how that makes him a stupid player. Did you see the guy play at Georgia? That's exactly what he did, blew guys up. The guy played 3.5 games this year and suffered a freak injury. Anyone judging Cine right now for his rookie season is flat out wrong. 3.5 games as a rookie literally tells you absolutely nothing.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I don't think Cine had an injury history? Booth did for sure though. However, as I heard someone else say, Cine and Booth have very high ceilings. They bring athleticism and length to the team. Actually, that is what Kwesi is attempting to do. Get younger, more athletic, longer, and faster on the defensive side of the ball. It is very apparent that he values the explosive athlete.
As for a bad draft? I believe that Cine is starting next year. Booth? I am not sure yet. He has to show more. Ingram will be very good once he gets taught better pass blocking skills, but is definitely starting. Alex Boone believes in this kid, so why wouldn't I? Asamoah showed out great in his limited opportunities and will be starting next year. I thought Evans showed a lot considering a mid rd CB before the concussions ended his season. If fully recovered, My $ is on him either starting or being the nickel CB. Otomewo shows like he could be a long time player to me as a 3-4 DE. All Pro? No, but a contributing player definitely and maybe a starter. Chandler showed a lot in preseason to make the coaches excited for his future. Nailor has every chance to be the starter at the #2 or #3 WR slot next season.
So for the draft grades... I disagree. Kwesi was left an absolute mess of old players and terrible contracts. He had 2 options. 1) blow it up, or 2) a competitive rebuild. So #2 was the choice. Who thought that this aging defense would be ranked amongst the league worst? But, new scheme and we go with the veterans. But we loyal fans, got to watch our longtime favorite players again. At some point, the rebuild must continue and the roster turned over. IT IS TIME !!! and I sure hope that last year's "poor draft" will pay big dividends and have players all over the field next season.

Yeah I dont know of any injury history for Cine so that is false as far as I know. And regardless, even if he did have one, breaking your leg the way he did is a freak injury. It has nothing to do with being injury prone or anything along those lines.

In the end, everyone is always so quick to judge a draft. It's like if the first 4 picks arent starting or contributing massively, they are a bust. That's simply not how that works. I'm excited for guys like Cine and Asamoah. Even Booth because I know he had a good camp, was talking smack to Jefferson and looked really good. Hopefully the injuries start to disappear for him. Ingram is another one I'm not ready to judge even though he started the entire year. If every player is judge off their rookie season, 90% of them would be labeled busts. There have been so many players that came through here that maybe started off slow or struggled and then all of the sudden turned it around. I can think of two lineman off the top of my head that did this. Matt Birk and John Sullivan. Both were horrendous their first couple years starting and turned into studs. Sullivan didnt peak until 2011 after being drafted in '08. Birk was the same type of deal. I remember when guys ragged on Waynes his first few years and he ended up being a very solid corner.

Point being, guys need to give these rookies time. I say it every single year on here. Sure, saying a draft class looks "promising" or "underwhelming" is fair. But saying "this was the worst draft class in the NFL last year" is just asinine, sorry but it is. I think we have definitely filled some holes on this defense for next year with that 2022 draft class.

[CharVike]

Guys that keep ragging on Cine.... relax. Sure, he wasnt our day 1 starter from the jump. Big deal, doesnt mean a damn thing. He ended up breaking his leg in the 4th game of the season. Like is that really what we use to judge rookies on now? The first 4 games of the season? Kyle Hamilton wasnt considered a starter until week 15 of the season this year. Yeah he was playing but playing in package roles.

For whoever said Cine is a stupid player for him saying he loves blowing up guys....not sure how that makes him a stupid player. Did you see the guy play at Georgia? That's exactly what he did, blew guys up. The guy played 3.5 games this year and suffered a freak injury. Anyone judging Cine right now for his rookie season is flat out wrong. 3.5 games as a rookie literally tells you absolutely nothing.

Cine wasn't even playing backup roles. He couldn't help in the slot? Your right you can't call a draft until who knows 5 years down the road or what ever number of years you want to put on it. We sat at the 12th position in the draft. We had holes everywhere. You should be able to walk away with a high caliber player at that spot. Trade up to the pick before the Jets and draft that CB who was an automatic shut down guy day 1. You know how much that helps a team? That was worth our entire draft. Bradbury was a starter day 1 but sucked day 1 right up until he showed some life this year. There were some good rookie players this year. It's possible some of those rookies will suck going forward like our guy Mat Kalil.who was highly rated year one. I felt when that draft unfolded trading away from the talent was stupid. That's a bogus way to run a draft and Speilman did it over and over and our roster shows the result. We picked the 3rd safety selected. Of course he could be an all pro this season and the other 2 will suck. That's certainly a possibility.