Game day comments: giants/vikings

[Texas Vike]

Just caught part of the presser.

Donatell was NOT fired, however, when asked, KOC stated that he continues to evaluate both players and staff and made it sound like that could still happen. If it does, it seemed that it would be later this week or early next week.

I am starting to have my doubts.

[chicagopurple]

Man, I reallllly hope KOC is NOT one of these guys who stands by "his guys" till the bitter end or wont admit a hiring error.
Is Donatell a KOC choice, or did management force him on KOC? I dont recall

[Pep2Moss]

Man, I reallllly hope KOC is NOT one of these guys who stands by "his guys" till the bitter end or wont admit a hiring error.
Is Donatell a KOC choice, or did management force him on KOC? I dont recall

KOC reached out to Brandon Staley who told him to hire Donatello over Pettine

[Pep2Moss]

Thielen … one of my favorite players, but I’d have to say no. His play has really fallen off. And he knows it. That’s why his wife was making farewell posts on Instagram.

Her latest post actually makes it sound more like AT thinks he wasn't used correctly/ enough. "Adam wants opportunities to show what he can do and feel valued as a receiver, so we'll support him wherever that may be."

100 percent. Definitely not happy in his usage. He continually had single coverage but to be honest he didn’t seem to seperate much

[JJBreaksRecords]

Man, I reallllly hope KOC is NOT one of these guys who stands by "his guys" till the bitter end or wont admit a hiring error.
Is Donatell a KOC choice, or did management force him on KOC? I dont recall

Well he is, from what I can tell of him. Maybe all that culture gets in the way of being a good HC.

[Pondering Her Percy]

It’s January 18th. WHY HASN’T DONATELL BEEN FIRED YET!!!
C’mon Boy Wonder - Pull the trigger!

Culture Boy is too busy making up and calling stupid plays, and practicing his smile on camera to do his basic duties. And people thought Zimmer and Rick were bad, a year or 2 from now they will be screaming for KO and Kams heads. No way this leadership makes it 5 years. Worst draft I can ever remember, along with the worst D.

ok. He hasnt even been in a position to fire/hire anyone yet post-season. It's been 3 days since we've lost. The guy just posted a 13-4 season with a team that went 15-18 the last two years. Relax

[Pondering Her Percy]

Thielen … one of my favorite players, but I’d have to say no. His play has really fallen off. And he knows it. That’s why his wife was making farewell posts on Instagram.

Her latest post actually makes it sound more like AT thinks he wasn't used correctly/ enough. "Adam wants opportunities to show what he can do and feel valued as a receiver, so we'll support him wherever that may be."

Sound familiar? It does to me. This is the Kyle Rudolph situation 2.0. Rudolph's last year here he said he wasnt used correctly and was frustrated. He then went to the Giants and disappeared into thin air. These are players that were so good for so long having a hard time accepting reality. Thielen hasnt been getting separation, looked like he was in serious pain every time he stood up from getting tackled and was overtaken in targets by Jefferson, Hockenson and Osborn. I love Thielen, how do you not? But this is Thielen having a hard time accepting reality. He has exactly what Rudy had at the end of his career.... reliable hands. Outside of that, there was very little there. I'm not saying Thielen slowed as much as Rudolph did, but it's not all that far off.

[Cliff]

If he were to fire Donatell, now is the absolute worst time as a leader. He'd basically be saying "you are why we lost" and skirting accountability.

KOC's defense failed and hes owning that rather than simply blaming the coordinator. By all accounts he was running things the way KOC wanted. Firing someone for doing what you told them to do is a dick move to say the least.

There's no reason to make a knee-jerk reaction and fire him immediately. Especially not knowing what his relationship is like with the players. Sacrificing a well-liked person to absolve yourself of blame might not go over well.

[JJBreaksRecords]

If he were to fire Donatell, now is the absolute worst time as a leader. He'd basically be saying "you are why we lost" and skirting accountability.

KOC's defense failed and hes owning that rather than simply blaming the coordinator. By all accounts he was running things the way KOC wanted. Firing someone for doing what you told them to do is a dick move to say the least.

There's no reason to make a knee-jerk reaction and fire him immediately. Especially not knowing what his relationship is like with the players. Sacrificing a well-liked person to absolve yourself of blame might not go over well.

Maybe. I just want him to have time to look at other DC's that can actually run a 3-4. And the fact we see Hunter backing off into coverage floors me. And no adjustments at all. Ever. Maybe a little more blitzing at the end of the season, but thats about it. And, I think Harry should move where ever he thinks he should and blitz the QB. He is excellent at it, one of the few things I liked about Zimmer. Maybe they do have someone in mind but is still in the playoffs, but I doubt it.

[Texas Vike]

Her latest post actually makes it sound more like AT thinks he wasn't used correctly/ enough. "Adam wants opportunities to show what he can do and feel valued as a receiver, so we'll support him wherever that may be."

Sound familiar? It does to me. This is the Kyle Rudolph situation 2.0. Rudolph's last year here he said he wasnt used correctly and was frustrated. He then went to the Giants and disappeared into thin air. These are players that were so good for so long having a hard time accepting reality. Thielen hasnt been getting separation, looked like he was in serious pain every time he stood up from getting tackled and was overtaken in targets by Jefferson, Hockenson and Osborn. I love Thielen, how do you not? But this is Thielen having a hard time accepting reality. He has exactly what Rudy had at the end of his career.... reliable hands. Outside of that, there was very little there. I'm not saying Thielen slowed as much as Rudolph did, but it's not all that far off.

Yeah, it's the human story. We all age and lose our abilities. It's hard to accept, especially at first. AT seems to be in that initial stage of denial. Time to move on. The guys at Purple Daily have pointed out the parallels to Rudy. They speculated that we MIGHT be able to trade AT for a 6th. It's not much, but in a year when we have so few picks, I'd take it. They also speculated that if we just straight up cut him, he might end up a Packer. Apparently, he and ARod have a mutual admiration thing going.

[Texas Vike]

If he were to fire Donatell, now is the absolute worst time as a leader. He'd basically be saying "you are why we lost" and skirting accountability.

KOC's defense failed and hes owning that rather than simply blaming the coordinator. By all accounts he was running things the way KOC wanted. Firing someone for doing what you told them to do is a dick move to say the least.

There's no reason to make a knee-jerk reaction and fire him immediately. Especially not knowing what his relationship is like with the players. Sacrificing a well-liked person to absolve yourself of blame might not go over well.

I can't say I agree, Cliff. I highly doubt that KOC told him to play with CBs 10 yards off and allow mediocre QBs look like Johnny Unitas. IMO, a part of being a leader is also making an objective assessment of who is doing their job well / poorly, and making adjustments accordingly. If you don't, it leads to frustration among the troops. In any competitive workplace, a tolerance for incompetence is demoralizing.

In Ed's defense, he inherited a terrible group of players and then three of the players they drafted for the D (Evans, Booth, and Cine) got hurt. Z'Darius was hurt for the second half of the year. Zimmer didn't do much (any?) better the year before with many of the same players. But some of his choices concern me. I don't like how slow he is to play young players (Asamoah, Cine, pre-injury, etc.) It reminds me of Zimm. I hate that his D is so predictable. The middle of the field is always open. Coverage is always soft.

[CharVike]

If he were to fire Donatell, now is the absolute worst time as a leader. He'd basically be saying "you are why we lost" and skirting accountability.

KOC's defense failed and hes owning that rather than simply blaming the coordinator. By all accounts he was running things the way KOC wanted. Firing someone for doing what you told them to do is a dick move to say the least.

There's no reason to make a knee-jerk reaction and fire him immediately. Especially not knowing what his relationship is like with the players. Sacrificing a well-liked person to absolve yourself of blame might not go over well.

Maybe. I just want him to have time to look at other DC's that can actually run a 3-4. And the fact we see Hunter backing off into coverage floors me. And no adjustments at all. Ever. Maybe a little more blitzing at the end of the season, but thats about it. And, I think Harry should move where ever he thinks he should and blitz the QB. He is excellent at it, one of the few things I liked about Zimmer. Maybe they do have someone in mind but is still in the playoffs, but I doubt it.

Hunter backing into coverage is beyond dumb. That weakens the D in two spots. Zero coverage and a sack leader not getting after the QB. Danatell won't get fired. He's a stool pigeon.

[Cliff]

I can't say I agree, Cliff. I highly doubt that KOC told him to play with CBs 10 yards off and allow mediocre QBs look like Johnny Unitas.

Why is that hard to believe? It's been the same all year and I haven't heard any complaints about Donatell going off script. I've only heard KOC say Donatell did his best to implement the system.

IMO, a part of being a leader is also making an objective assessment of who is doing their job well / poorly, and making adjustments accordingly. If you don't, it leads to frustration among the troops. In any competitive workplace, a tolerance for incompetence is demoralizing.

My problem is I'm not sure Donatell failed any more than KOC did. Hell, I'm not sure either of them "failed" as much as the talent they have on defense is lacking. Perhaps they knew the players would just get burned worse in tighter coverage.

Which brings me to your next comment:

In Ed's defense, he inherited a terrible group of players and then three of the players they drafted for the D (Evans, Booth, and Cine) got hurt. Z'Darius was hurt for the second half of the year. Zimmer didn't do much (any?) better the year before with many of the same players. But some of his choices concern me. I don't like how slow he is to play young players (Asamoah, Cine, pre-injury, etc.) It reminds me of Zimm. I hate that his D is so predictable. The middle of the field is always open. Coverage is always soft.

In 2021, with very similar players, and basically the exact opposite defense (which many had been in for years), this team was still the worst (or among the worst) defenses in football by most metrics.

All this talk about "we need to go to back to a 4-3" and "fire Donatell" ... I'm not sure what people expected. One of the worst defenses in the league in 2021 had to learn a new system and work with new coaches. If the defense was even middle-of-the-road last season and took a huge step back that's one thing but that didn't happen.

I'm cool with firing Donatell but I'm way more interested in it if KOC plans on changing schemes. If he plans on staying with something similar to 2022 then keep Donatell and consistency.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

I can't say I agree, Cliff. I highly doubt that KOC told him to play with CBs 10 yards off and allow mediocre QBs look like Johnny Unitas.

Why is that hard to believe? It's been the same all year and I haven't heard any complaints about Donatell going off script. I've only heard KOC say Donatell did his best to implement the system.

IMO, a part of being a leader is also making an objective assessment of who is doing their job well / poorly, and making adjustments accordingly. If you don't, it leads to frustration among the troops. In any competitive workplace, a tolerance for incompetence is demoralizing.

My problem is I'm not sure Donatell failed any more than KOC did. Hell, I'm not sure either of them "failed" as much as the talent they have on defense is lacking. Perhaps they knew the players would just get burned worse in tighter coverage.

Which brings me to your next comment:

In Ed's defense, he inherited a terrible group of players and then three of the players they drafted for the D (Evans, Booth, and Cine) got hurt. Z'Darius was hurt for the second half of the year. Zimmer didn't do much (any?) better the year before with many of the same players. But some of his choices concern me. I don't like how slow he is to play young players (Asamoah, Cine, pre-injury, etc.) It reminds me of Zimm. I hate that his D is so predictable. The middle of the field is always open. Coverage is always soft.

In 2021, with very similar players, and basically the exact opposite defense (which many had been in for years), this team was still the worst (or among the worst) defenses in football by most metrics.

All this talk about "we need to go to back to a 4-3" and "fire Donatell" ... I'm not sure what people expected. One of the worst defenses in the league in 2021 had to learn a new system and work with new coaches. If the defense was even middle-of-the-road last season and took a huge step back that's one thing but that didn't happen.

I'm cool with firing Donatell but I'm way more interested in it if KOC plans on changing schemes. If he plans on staying with something similar to 2022 then keep Donatell and consistency.

Yeah but, (and I have no data to back this up) didn't it appear that Zimmer's blitzing frequency dropped off the table last year for some unknown reason? And wasn't his disguised blitzing what really made Zimmer's defenses in the past so good?

I'm no defensive guru but I can tell you that I always like aggressive defenses that blitz a lot. And it seems that would have served this year's defense much better. When you get someone to the QB quickly, not only do you constantly pressure the QB, but you shorten the field you have to defend. Sure, you'll get burned occasionally, but when you do, you're offense should get more possessions to score. What's better? To be burned 3 times a game and allow 3 TD's, or to allow 3 clock killing drives that result in a TD anyhow.

When you run a "Bend Don't Break" defense, you have to make sure you don't BREAK! or it is rendered useless.

[Cliff]

Yeah but, (and I have no data to back this up) didn't it appear that Zimmer's blitzing frequency dropped off the table last year for some unknown reason? And wasn't his disguised blitzing what really made Zimmer's defenses in the past so good?

I'm no defensive guru but I can tell you that I always like aggressive defenses that blitz a lot. And it seems that would have served this year's defense much better. When you get someone to the QB quickly, not only do you constantly pressure the QB, but you shorten the field you have to defend. Sure, you'll get burned occasionally, but when you do, you're offense should get more possessions to score. What's better? To be burned 3 times a game and allow 3 TD's, or to allow 3 clock killing drives that result in a TD anyhow.

When you run a "Bend Don't Break" defense, you have to make sure you don't BREAK! or it is rendered useless.

Zimmer's double A gap stuff was mostly meant to disguise whatever the play might be. Zimmer often only rushed 4 but had 5 or 6 guys up on the line. To my memory, actually rushing all 6 of them rarely ended well.

Perhaps the lack of blitzing from two completely different sets of coaches running completely different schemes tells you how well the current defensive roster is able to get pressure, even on a blitz. Blitzing is great unless your players can't get to the QB in which case you'll likely get burned, like you wrote above.