Suckage

[CharVike]

I agree. If JJ had a shot at the record or the game meant something in terms of playoff position I'd want KOC to put the starters out there, but since neither is true anymore might as well sit them and hope the extra time off helps.

As for coaches, I hope there is an honest assessment of what went wrong and why the team struggled on defense especially. It might be that the Vikings struggled on defense because they lacked the talent to play differently. Harrison Smith is up there in years. Cam Bynum is pretty limited physically and with Cine suffering his season-ending injury early we never got a chance to see if he could earn more playing time and maybe make an impact. Dantzler is a soft corner. He's got some talent, but rarely makes plays on the ball and he also spent a lot of time on the sidelines with injuries. Booth seems like a total bust. Not only didn't he earn any playing time, but he was quickly injured when he did see the field. Chandon Sullivan is a stop-gap at best and a mediocre player. Not terrible, but not that good. Patrick Peterson and Duke Shelley are the best cover guys on the team. Peterson is at the end of his career no matter how it is sliced-and-diced, though, and while I love Duke's hard-nosed play and his ability, he's ideally a slot corner. Evans who knows? He could be good and played well at times but we didn't see enough of him due to the concussions.

Both Hicks and Kendricks aren't effective in pass defense anymore, either. Hicks was routinely scorched by RBs running go routes (happened again yesterday against the Packers, but Rodgers missed the RB on the deep attempt), and Kendricks just looks lost on most passing downs. Hard to say if Asamoah is the answer either. He's younger and has more speed, but he also lacks discipline as he commits too early to shooting gaps on run plays and got badly suckered by Rodgers on the pump fake, leaving his feet when he should have just kept going to get Rodgers on the roll. He's young and will likely develop and avoid these mistakes, but even if he does the Vikings still lack another young LB who can play beside him.

Donatell had to play the cards he was dealt, and while I think he could have at least tightened up to play more press man and tight coverages, it's equally possible he realized he lacked the players to do that without risking giving up even more big plays than his team has so far this year. That's a bit of a stretch as this year's Vikings defense has been exceptional at giving up big plays all year, but I suppose it could have been worse still. I'm not saying I think Donatell deserves another chance or should be retained. I don't think he should be, but he might also have done the best he could with what he had to work with.

I’m not sure anyone can call a rookie a “bust”? That’s about as premature as it gets. Also criticizing Asamoah… again, he’s a rookie. Mistakes are going to happen. If booth was in his 3rd year and sitting the bench, yeah he’s probably a bust. If Asamoah is making the same mistakes in year 3, yeah probably a bust but hell, let the guys develop for goodness sake

Nobody should be called a bust year 1 but there's nothing wrong with an opinion. Early in the season one of our safeties missed a game and Mettelus got the time and Cine watched. Bynum is a guy who had only played safety one year in his life. Cine played it his whole life. That's a big difference. Challenge the guy for the spot and beat him out. Cine needs to be a starter next year or something is wrong. Year 2 is always key with the players. Donatell can't stay here. Having players learning multiple spots is never a good thing unless you are a backup. Trying to be the best at one will take all the effort a player has. This scheme almost makes me puke. This 3-4 heavy can't even stop the run. Barkley right up the gut and gone. He's the only guy they have. Jones 111 yards almost 8 yards a pop. How can a HC continue to watch this BS.

[CharVike]

Well it looks like KOC is going to go with his starters against the Bears. Cousins will take another beating so that should help him. He wants to rectify some issues. Against a team that sucks and has no direction you can't rectify anything. Fields has limited passing skills so that isn't even a challenge. If he even plays but he's banged up. Our D will chase him all day if he does play.
"We still have a lot to play for just from a momentum standpoint," O'Connell said. "(For) a football team that’s kind of had some highs this year, for sure, and then one of our low moments of the season yesterday, where you’d like to be able to rely on a lot of things we've built here to come back together and make sure we rectify some of the issues."
BY WILL RAGATZ
I thought Donatell was dumb. Plus the turf at Soldier Field sucks. Again it will be footing issues. Why not just put the old astro turf back in and be done with it. Payton never had a problem with that stuff.

[chicagopurple]

Dont make any smug assumptions about this weeks game. We arent so great at run defense, their QB has a very real run threat, he could make the Vikes look stupid, especially since our coaching has proven itself to be aversive to making adaptations (other than maybe one game of note). Plus, our already weak front lines are now further depleted by injury. Hopefully, the skill guys on our offense are pissed and tear up the Bears secondary. Our run game will be going nowhere given the OL and the anemic numbers on the ground all year.

[CharVike]

Dont make any smug assumptions about this weeks game. We arent so great at run defense, their QB has a very real run threat, he could make the Vikes look stupid, especially since our coaching has proven itself to be aversive to making adaptations (other than maybe one game of note). Plus, our already weak front lines are now further depleted by injury. Hopefully, the skill guys on our offense are pissed and tear up the Bears secondary. Our run game will be going nowhere given the OL and the anemic numbers on the ground all year.

I wasn't being smug. We need to treat this as a bye week. Our guys could use some rest. We are locked in at the 3 seed. Sorry if AZ beats the 49ers we could get No 2 with a win. I'd take the 3 seed at this point. Get the scouts looking at the Giants. Facing Rodgers is worse. Fields will run all day on us. He's looking for a record in rush yards. That means our D players will be running all day. That wears guys out. That's the last thing we need in a meaningless game. Let the guys get their legs back.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Dont make any smug assumptions about this weeks game. We arent so great at run defense, their QB has a very real run threat, he could make the Vikes look stupid, especially since our coaching has proven itself to be aversive to making adaptations (other than maybe one game of note). Plus, our already weak front lines are now further depleted by injury. Hopefully, the skill guys on our offense are pissed and tear up the Bears secondary. Our run game will be going nowhere given the OL and the anemic numbers on the ground all year.

I wasn't being smug. We need to treat this as a bye week. Our guys could use some rest. We are locked in at the 3 seed. Sorry if AZ beats the 49ers we could get No 2 with a win. I'd take the 3 seed at this point. Get the scouts looking at the Giants. Facing Rodgers is worse. Fields will run all day on us. He's looking for a record in rush yards. That means our D players will be running all day. That wears guys out. That's the last thing we need in a meaningless game. Let the guys get their legs back.

I 1000% agree with resting starters. This team needs a rest week especially given we've lost another center and stud RT. I wouldnt rule out our backups beating the Bears (who might not even play Fields from what I'm seeing). I know getting a win could be a confidence booster, but if we lose another key player to injury, we could be in real trouble. Take the 3 seed and run with it, it looks to be the better option anyways.

[VikingLord]

I’m not sure anyone can call a rookie a “bust”? That’s about as premature as it gets. Also criticizing Asamoah… again, he’s a rookie. Mistakes are going to happen. If booth was in his 3rd year and sitting the bench, yeah he’s probably a bust. If Asamoah is making the same mistakes in year 3, yeah probably a bust but hell, let the guys develop for goodness sake

Booth didn't earn playing time and couldn't stay on the field due to multiple injuries. I agree it isn't fair to say he's a bust overall, but his first year has certainly been that, especially when compared to other CBs who were taken last year who have made an immediate impact. I just get a feeling about him and I don't think he's ever going to play a substantial role on the team despite the Vikings being a perpetually needy team at the CB position. I hope he proves that feeling wrong.

I didn't call Asamoah a bust. I said I'm not sure he's the answer as a starting linebacker to replace Kendricks/Hicks next year based on what I've seen from him so far. I liked him as a pick and generally have liked what I've seen from him on the field, but he's made some mistakes and so far he's not established himself as an obvious successor at the LB position.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I’m not sure anyone can call a rookie a “bust”? That’s about as premature as it gets. Also criticizing Asamoah… again, he’s a rookie. Mistakes are going to happen. If booth was in his 3rd year and sitting the bench, yeah he’s probably a bust. If Asamoah is making the same mistakes in year 3, yeah probably a bust but hell, let the guys develop for goodness sake

Booth didn't earn playing time and couldn't stay on the field due to multiple injuries. I agree it isn't fair to say he's a bust overall, but his first year has certainly been that, especially when compared to other CBs who were taken last year who have made an immediate impact. I just get a feeling about him and I don't think he's ever going to play a substantial role on the team despite the Vikings being a perpetually needy team at the CB position. I hope he proves that feeling wrong.

I didn't call Asamoah a bust. I said I'm not sure he's the answer as a starting linebacker to replace Kendricks/Hicks next year based on what I've seen from him so far. I liked him as a pick and generally have liked what I've seen from him on the field, but he's made some mistakes and so far he's not established himself as an obvious successor at the LB position.

And that's fine that you have that opinion. I just think calling a rookie a bust whether it's Booth or Christian Ponder, you dont really know until the 2nd, usually 3rd year. I cant begin to count the amount of times Trae Waynes was called a bust his rookie year on here and following that, he was a very good corner by the end of his tenure here.

[VikingLord]

Booth didn't earn playing time and couldn't stay on the field due to multiple injuries. I agree it isn't fair to say he's a bust overall, but his first year has certainly been that, especially when compared to other CBs who were taken last year who have made an immediate impact. I just get a feeling about him and I don't think he's ever going to play a substantial role on the team despite the Vikings being a perpetually needy team at the CB position. I hope he proves that feeling wrong.

I didn't call Asamoah a bust. I said I'm not sure he's the answer as a starting linebacker to replace Kendricks/Hicks next year based on what I've seen from him so far. I liked him as a pick and generally have liked what I've seen from him on the field, but he's made some mistakes and so far he's not established himself as an obvious successor at the LB position.

And that's fine that you have that opinion. I just think calling a rookie a bust whether it's Booth or Christian Ponder, you dont really know until the 2nd, usually 3rd year. I cant begin to count the amount of times Trae Waynes was called a bust his rookie year on here and following that, he was a very good corner by the end of his tenure here.

It's impossible to say if a young player is a true bust until he's had his chance, and some players don't do anything as rookies or even second-year players, only to come on strong once they get that chance. But Booth's injury history coming into the league was not good, and it remains not good for him as a rookie. While it might not be fair for me to label him a bust, it is at least fair to say the hill he has to climb to prove himself is just that much steeper since he's managed so little in his first year.

I didn't like the pick when it was made, but I talked myself into liking it, and now after what I saw from him on the field so far and how little he's actually been on the field this year, I'm back to not liking it again. But like I said, here's hoping KAM was right to move up to get him given the dire need at CB heading into last year's draft. I hope Booth proves my doubts to be unfounded.

[Texas Vike]

Holy smokes, this video is simultaneously funny and infuriating. Worth watching (with sound on)

[Pondering Her Percy]

And that's fine that you have that opinion. I just think calling a rookie a bust whether it's Booth or Christian Ponder, you dont really know until the 2nd, usually 3rd year. I cant begin to count the amount of times Trae Waynes was called a bust his rookie year on here and following that, he was a very good corner by the end of his tenure here.

It's impossible to say if a young player is a true bust until he's had his chance, and some players don't do anything as rookies or even second-year players, only to come on strong once they get that chance. But Booth's injury history coming into the league was not good, and it remains not good for him as a rookie. While it might not be fair for me to label him a bust, it is at least fair to say the hill he has to climb to prove himself is just that much steeper since he's managed so little in his first year.

I didn't like the pick when it was made, but I talked myself into liking it, and now after what I saw from him on the field so far and how little he's actually been on the field this year, I'm back to not liking it again. But like I said, here's hoping KAM was right to move up to get him given the dire need at CB heading into last year's draft. I hope Booth proves my doubts to be unfounded.

Granted booth had an injury history coming in, but if you remember back in the draft, we were in desperate need of a corner come round 2. Booth in terms of production and overall ability was hands down the best corner on the board in round 2. He was often mocked in late round 1 by many. Yes he had the injury history, but I’ll be the first to admit I was screaming “Take Booth” at the TV when it was nearing our pick. To get a fringe 1st round corner in the 2nd was solid value. Comes with risk but solid value if he pans out. So I was all about it. But we all know how draft picks work, might look like a great pick and flops or might look like Danielle Hunter (who nobody knew of) in round 3 and turns into a stud. You really never know but if I was GM, I would've 1000% made the same pick given need and his overall ability. I take that chance in round 2.

Agreed he does have a hill to climb but we’ll never know until a year or two from now.

And as for the injury, ever since Kyle Rudolph, my views on injuries are different than most. I hardly ever label a player injury prone anymore. The amount of times Rudolph was labeled as injury prone, for 3 out of his first 4 years was rapid on here. To him then playing 80 games straight for 5 years changed my view completely. Now this doesn’t apply to all players but I don’t care to say “injury prone” anymore. Many times it can simply be bad luck, getting hit a certain way, landing a certain way, etc.

Hell Brian O’Neill never missed a game since becoming a starter and just blew his calf out running with nobody near him.

Dalvin cook was often labeled as injury prone and has played an entire season with zero hiccups. (knock on wood)

Christian Mccaffery went from never missing a game as a dang running back his entire rookie contract to missing game after game after he got his big contract.

Point is, injuries are a mystery in the nfl. They come and they go. One guy could have an injury free 5 years and blow his knee out. Another guy could be injured their first 3 years non stop and go on and play 80+ games. You just never know. Yes booths history of injuries is concerning, but I’m not putting much doubt that he’ll eventually come around and we’ll be able to see what talent he really has. Rumor had it, he was a beast in camp and manning up JJ. But regardless at the time, he probably wasn’t going to unseat PP or Dantzler regardless. And in all fairness, his first field time as a rookie was against Buffalos and Dallas’ offense. Tough task for a rookie.

I’m far from throwing the towel in or labeling him as anything until I see more. I always said the same with Waynes and it panned out. Corner takes a lot of learning in this league.

Sorry for the longevity of this post brother! SKOL

[allday1991]

Holy smokes, this video is simultaneously funny and infuriating. Worth watching (with sound on)

This bugs me the most, I noticed this 5 minutes into the game and Viking players didn’t start changing cleats till the 2nd. Don’t they practice before hand, how did it take a 1 hour warm up and 20 minutes of game time to realize they needed to change? Inexcusable.

[J. Kapp 11]

Holy smokes, this video is simultaneously funny and infuriating. Worth watching (with sound on)

This bugs me the most, I noticed this 5 minutes into the game and Viking players didn’t start changing cleats till the 2nd. Don’t they practice before hand, how did it take a 1 hour warm up and 20 minutes of game time to realize they needed to change? Inexcusable.

I looked into a Vikings podcast called Purple FTW this morning. I don't generally care for this podcast because it's hosted by a JAG. Just A Guy. A dude who's just a fan. No insider information, no access to anyone in the organization. It's like one of us having a podcast (in fact, I'd rather watch a podcast by one of us).

But ... he asked a great question.

Did the Vikings fail to wear the proper cleats because of vanity?

These guys nowadays are wearing custom cleats, designed by guys for them. They're very cool looking. The league allows it. Encourages it. They get to express themselves through their shoes, with the help of artists of course. These cleats are molded. They're great for turf, and they're great for grass fields in great condition. But they're not good for sloppy turf.

The coaching staff "encouraged" them to wear 7-studded cleats. These are screw-in cleats that can accept spikes of varying lengths. They're much better for sloppy field conditions than molded cleats. But 7-stud cleats aren't custom. They're plain black. Or white. Not fancy. Not cool. O'Connell basically said they advised the players to wear them, but you can't force them. So the players wore their cool, custom, molded cleats.

And we all saw what happened. We have meme videos about what happened, for crying out loud.

This is an area of improvement for O'Connell, I believe. By "encouraging" players to wear 7-stud cleats instead of "requiring" the players to wear them, KOC sabotaged himself. KOC is a guy who loves collaboration. He's a players coach. He wants the players to like him. His comment that you can't make the players wear a certain shoe ... I don't think that's the way to approach a situation like this. Can anyone here see Bill Belichick doing that? Hell, how about Mike Zimmer? (And you all know that I loathe Zimmer.)

I love KOC's coaching style. I think he's gotten buy-in from the players in a huge way. They're owners of their team, not renters. They care about the team, and they care for each other. But sometimes a coach has to lay down the law. This was too important an issue to leave to players' egos and vanity. IMO, KOC should have required them to put on the appropriate footwear. Being a players coach is fine. But sometimes a leader has to know when to take charge. KOC needs to learn that.

Don't know if it would've made a difference in the outcome. But the way the Vikings were sliding around out there in the first half, they had no chance.

[makila]

Agree completely Kapp. Purple ftw floats through my regular pods as well.

What kills me is its failure on many levels. We have numerous leaders in our locker room, vets, who have played at Lambeau numerous times. Where were they? One of the points of veteran leadership is to show the younger guys how to do it. Coaches failed to make it required. And then the vets with Lambeau experience didn't get the team to buy in? So weird.

[VikingLord]

Holy smokes, this video is simultaneously funny and infuriating. Worth watching (with sound on)

This bugs me the most, I noticed this 5 minutes into the game and Viking players didn’t start changing cleats till the 2nd. Don’t they practice before hand, how did it take a 1 hour warm up and 20 minutes of game time to realize they needed to change? Inexcusable.

I don't think it helped even after the 2nd as I recall seeing Vikings players slipping and sliding well into the 3rd. The footing issues didn't seem to improve as the game went on for the Vikings.

It is inexcusable for the Vikings to not be prepared to play on a slick field in January.

It's also inexcusable for the defense to have been caught with only 10 guys on the field on one play and then flagged for having 12 on the field on another play in January in a game with playoff implications. I have to give credit to the Packers and Rodgers - they did their homework on Donatell and understand his frequent use of substitutions.

Last game of the season looms with the playoffs imminent and the Vikings are making rookie mistakes... Not a good sign.

[IIsweet]

Hand full of thoughts:

A rookie cannot be called a Bust as a rookie, imo. They less than 12 months ago were playing against college kids as they were one of them. They could have been 21 or 22 and playing against 19/20 year olds. Now they are against grown A$$ men!! Not to mention the biggest and best in the entire business!!! I get it, Cine was a 1st rd pick and did not replace Bynum from day 1, but Bynum has a year of experience at Safety IN THE NFL. He has seen so much more and had a year with Harrison and the coaching staff. Also knows how to prepare for NFL games.
Rookies will drastically improve from year 1 to year 2. They have learned, hopefully, how to prepare. They will now be under the best care of team trainers and coaches. The NFL strength and conditioning will be huge for them. I fully expect the Vikings to be starting Cine (if fully recovered), Booth, Evans, Asamoah, Ingram to all be starting next season. I also think Nailor has a chance to be the #3 WR.

As for the Puke game. Once down and injuries occurred, at what point do you not show anything and start to play a vanilla game. Why show your blitz packages, or different plays. Why give the Puke the opportunity to see what you can expose, just in case you may see them again. We have the 3 seed locked up. Why give additional film that may be used against us later?

I see us winning the 1st playoff game. I do not see us winning at SF or Philly, regardless of where we travel.

Did you know, that we have been a negative Points For/Against for 3 consecutive years now ??? 2019 was the last time that we scored more than we allowed over the course of a season. The defense obviously is not great, but it has not been for a while and this was coming!!! Maybe our favorite players are overrated?

Lastly, I expect a lot of FA turnover this next offseason. Expiring contracts, youth movements, scheme fits, and the fact that we have very few draft picks. Personally, I think we get a lot younger and faster. What is exciting too, is that I think that we will get the FA targets we want. Players all talk and the players are sharing how great the coaches are, the chemistry, environment, and overall is a great experience.

Long Post, my bad.