KDS

[tzinc]

KDS or Kirk Derangement Syndrome is led by the media just like TDS. Reality is completely different. KDS is based on psychoanalysis, national/local media ignorance, eye-tests, theories, feelings, and unfortunately political/cultural bias. But I have GOOD NEWS! Facts do not care about your feelings. Even the most dyed in the wool Kirk hater TDS sufferer can be cured in a couple of minutes they just need to look at the facts and with football they are clearly presented.
1) The TDSers said Kirk was not clutch and was not a good QB average at best.
2) Now that this season is happening the TDSers cannot let go so now they say that Kirk is different (he is not) and that it is all due to KOC (it is not).

Kirk has only had 1 year with KOC what he has achieved has been done without KOC and incredibly (at Minnesota) with a coach who sabotaged him personally and offensively (Zimmer).

Kirk is the 8 best rated QB of all time.
QBs with 8 consecutive seasons of 25+ TDs: Peyton Brady Rivers Brees Kirk
Most consecutive games with a TD pass: Brees Brady Unitas Brees Kir

Kirk has always been clutch. BEFORE this season he had 23 4th quarter comebacks/game winning drives (2 were ties & in 25% of playoff games played).

This season he has continued yes he set record with 8 but had 6 last year and easily could have had more last year. So now he has 31 which is 9th All Time tied with Elway known as a comeback king who played four more seasons. And no it doesn't mean he is a bad QB because he had to comeback look at the rest of the list only top QBs are there with him - all QBs fall behind in games what makes them great IS the ability to comeback especially in 4th quarter and with game winning drives). The rest of the list: 1.Brady 2.Peyton 3.Ben R. 4.Ryan 5.Brees 6.Stafford/Unitas 8. Marino 9. Kirk/Elway

Qbs are 2-103 in last 8 years when trailing 20+ at halftime both wins are Kirk's (1 was without KOC or JJ). He has had comebacks of 33 24 20 & 17. Rodgers for his career has 3 4th quaterback comebacks down 10+ Kirk just this year has 4. Kirk also has the record for most 1 score wins another sign of clutch quarterbacking.

The 33-0 comeback is the best ever but let's break it down. They had to score 5 offensive TDs and a 2 point conversion (which is essentially score a TD in the redzone) there were no ST and/or Defensive TDs. To accomplish this Kirk had drives of 50+ 60+ & two! 70+ drives. He had the best 2nd half/OT in NFL history.

In 22% of all his games better than 1 in 5 he has 4th quarter comebacks/game winning drives (with 2 ties). It goes up to 23% as an established NFL starter.
More facts showing his quality. Has taken 125 hits most in 20+ years this year and been sacked 44 times 3rd most (also playing with a bottom 3 defense & no legitimate #2 WR). 7 out of 8 seasons as a starter 4000+ yards, 3 with 30+ TDs. Buffalo was 52-0 when leading by 14+ @ home dating back to the late 60s Kirk beat them. PFF had Kirk at one point last year in the top 5 QBs (TDSers disagreed with PFF on this but agreed with their other takes lol). This year the Pro Bowl selectors had Kirk top 3 in NFC and top 6 in NFL. That is where he belongs.

The KDS narratives that Kirk is not a top 6 top 7 type QB (which means very good not good not average) is wrong & that he is not clutch is wrong. The great thing is in football these things are measured we can actually prove it we can prove if it was a 1 time fluke or if it changed this season. Eye tests and feelings do not matter. So Kirk is not different with KOC. Now some people say it is due to JJ again a lot of these numbers are pre-JJ. Yes JJ is one of the best players in the NFL, the best WR, and not just this year but maybe all time but even he said a QB does more. There is a reason WRs do not win they do 1 thing a QB does many things. Even if JJ is wide open the QB still has to deliver the ball. The team would have a worse record with Mullins/Rose at QB and JJ then with Kirk and no JJ (as we have seen Kirk takes pretty much every team to .500ish JJ cannot do that. No WR not even JJ is covered enough to leave other WR wide open watch the tape almost every throw the other WR (or TE/RB) is covered -sure once in a while JJ's opens it up but that is rare.

Why KDS exists. A fake news / false media narrative started up about Kirk was that he was not good/clutch in part because of Kirk's political and personal views and in part due to sheer ignorance & the need for "hot takes". I think a lot of these stems from national media jumping on local media narratives (especially those 2 football ignorant liars Mackey & Judd). Another one of their lies was Kirk was a high check down QB the stats do not support this. They have a daily Kirk hate show every day like say MSNBC and TDS and that has breed a lot of KDS in fans. (It should be noted both those guys are wrong about almost everything they say "team should blow it up" "dump Kirk for Wilson" etc etc & both those guys have admitted to being unethical, don't have kids, don't believe in God and family or vote like Kirk does (they behave exactly like the Twitter TDSers).

Final thought: No I am not a know it all or better than the KDSers because I too believed this at first and because KDS arguments grew more silly and more obviously false and because Mainstream Media has been shown to be corrupt I did my own research. Even I did not realize until doing that how good a QB Kirk was/is and how clutch he was/is. Anyone who still disagrees can check the numbers themselves. Numbers don't care about your feelings.

[Maelstrom88]

You make a lot of good points. I think we are pretty fortunate to have Kirk. He is also extremely durable. With that said I wouldn't mind the Vikings looking to the future and drafting a potential future QB in 2023. How they close out the year starting Sunday and into the playoffs will be a huge determining factor on the future of this team.

[VikingLord]

KDS or Kirk Derangement Syndrome is led by the media just like TDS. Reality is completely different. KDS is based on psychoanalysis, national/local media ignorance, eye-tests, theories, feelings, and unfortunately political/cultural bias. But I have GOOD NEWS! Facts do not care about your feelings. Even the most dyed in the wool Kirk hater TDS sufferer can be cured in a couple of minutes they just need to look at the facts and with football they are clearly presented.
1) The TDSers said Kirk was not clutch and was not a good QB average at best.
2) Now that this season is happening the TDSers cannot let go so now they say that Kirk is different (he is not) and that it is all due to KOC (it is not).

Kirk has only had 1 year with KOC what he has achieved has been done without KOC and incredibly (at Minnesota) with a coach who sabotaged him personally and offensively (Zimmer).

Kirk is the 8 best rated QB of all time.
QBs with 8 consecutive seasons of 25+ TDs: Peyton Brady Rivers Brees Kirk
Most consecutive games with a TD pass: Brees Brady Unitas Brees Kir

Kirk has always been clutch. BEFORE this season he had 23 4th quarter comebacks/game winning drives (2 were ties & in 25% of playoff games played).

This season he has continued yes he set record with 8 but had 6 last year and easily could have had more last year. So now he has 31 which is 9th All Time tied with Elway known as a comeback king who played four more seasons. And no it doesn't mean he is a bad QB because he had to comeback look at the rest of the list only top QBs are there with him - all QBs fall behind in games what makes them great IS the ability to comeback especially in 4th quarter and with game winning drives). The rest of the list: 1.Brady 2.Peyton 3.Ben R. 4.Ryan 5.Brees 6.Stafford/Unitas 8. Marino 9. Kirk/Elway

Qbs are 2-103 in last 8 years when trailing 20+ at halftime both wins are Kirk's (1 was without KOC or JJ). He has had comebacks of 33 24 20 & 17. Rodgers for his career has 3 4th quaterback comebacks down 10+ Kirk just this year has 4. Kirk also has the record for most 1 score wins another sign of clutch quarterbacking.

The 33-0 comeback is the best ever but let's break it down. They had to score 5 offensive TDs and a 2 point conversion (which is essentially score a TD in the redzone) there were no ST and/or Defensive TDs. To accomplish this Kirk had drives of 50+ 60+ & two! 70+ drives. He had the best 2nd half/OT in NFL history.

In 22% of all his games better than 1 in 5 he has 4th quarter comebacks/game winning drives (with 2 ties). It goes up to 23% as an established NFL starter.
More facts showing his quality. Has taken 125 hits most in 20+ years this year and been sacked 44 times 3rd most (also playing with a bottom 3 defense & no legitimate #2 WR). 7 out of 8 seasons as a starter 4000+ yards, 3 with 30+ TDs. Buffalo was 52-0 when leading by 14+ @ home dating back to the late 60s Kirk beat them. PFF had Kirk at one point last year in the top 5 QBs (TDSers disagreed with PFF on this but agreed with their other takes lol). This year the Pro Bowl selectors had Kirk top 3 in NFC and top 6 in NFL. That is where he belongs.

The KDS narratives that Kirk is not a top 6 top 7 type QB (which means very good not good not average) is wrong & that he is not clutch is wrong. The great thing is in football these things are measured we can actually prove it we can prove if it was a 1 time fluke or if it changed this season. Eye tests and feelings do not matter. So Kirk is not different with KOC. Now some people say it is due to JJ again a lot of these numbers are pre-JJ. Yes JJ is one of the best players in the NFL, the best WR, and not just this year but maybe all time but even he said a QB does more. There is a reason WRs do not win they do 1 thing a QB does many things. Even if JJ is wide open the QB still has to deliver the ball. The team would have a worse record with Mullins/Rose at QB and JJ then with Kirk and no JJ (as we have seen Kirk takes pretty much every team to .500ish JJ cannot do that. No WR not even JJ is covered enough to leave other WR wide open watch the tape almost every throw the other WR (or TE/RB) is covered -sure once in a while JJ's opens it up but that is rare.

Why KDS exists. A fake news / false media narrative started up about Kirk was that he was not good/clutch in part because of Kirk's political and personal views and in part due to sheer ignorance & the need for "hot takes". I think a lot of these stems from national media jumping on local media narratives (especially those 2 football ignorant liars Mackey & Judd). Another one of their lies was Kirk was a high check down QB the stats do not support this. They have a daily Kirk hate show every day like say MSNBC and TDS and that has breed a lot of KDS in fans. (It should be noted both those guys are wrong about almost everything they say "team should blow it up" "dump Kirk for Wilson" etc etc & both those guys have admitted to being unethical, don't have kids, don't believe in God and family or vote like Kirk does (they behave exactly like the Twitter TDSers).

Final thought: No I am not a know it all or better than the KDSers because I too believed this at first and because KDS arguments grew more silly and more obviously false and because Mainstream Media has been shown to be corrupt I did my own research. Even I did not realize until doing that how good a QB Kirk was/is and how clutch he was/is. Anyone who still disagrees can check the numbers themselves. Numbers don't care about your feelings.

Can you please keep politics and claims about "the media" away from the board?

[tzinc]

Sure no problem.

The O Line is still terrible they have given up the 6 most sacks in the NFL 45 and 125 hits on Kirk. That is the most by any QB in 20+ years. The run blocking is bad too as the running game is also among the worst in the NFL. (The guards and center are not that good covering up for them doesn't help.)

The defense is among the worst as well in yards and points given up. So they are bending and breaking.

So basically this all rests on Kirk and JJ (there isn't even a legit #2 WR on the team KJ has a hard time separating and is not that great at routes and Theilen can barely move and Reagor is flat out bad.

[J. Kapp 11]

Sure no problem.

The O Line is still terrible they have given up the 6 most sacks in the NFL 45 and 125 hits on Kirk. That is the most by any QB in 20+ years. The run blocking is bad too as the running game is also among the worst in the NFL. (The guards and center are not that good covering up for them doesn't help.)

The defense is among the worst as well in yards and points given up. So they are bending and breaking.

So basically this all rests on Kirk and JJ (there isn't even a legit #2 WR on the team KJ has a hard time separating and is not that great at routes and Theilen can barely move and Reagor is flat out bad.

Disagree completely. And I'm as big a fan of Cousins' play this year as anybody, as well as JJ. I think they're both MVP candidates. But it does not fall only on Cousins and JJ.

Adam Thielen, for all his supposed inability to move, is on pace for 75 receptions. The yards per catch are down at just under 11, but 75 receptions is pretty much the definition of a No. 2 receiver.

You're forgetting TJ Hockensen, who has 52 receptions in the 8 weeks since joining the Vikings, 78 total for the season. In many ways, HE is the Vikings No. 2 receiver, and he's a very good one. He's also an excellent blocker.

KJ Osborn, with 48 receptions, is actually having a solid season. If the Vikings would target him more on shorter routes and bubble screens that would take advantage of his RAC capabilities, he could be even more useful.

And Dalvin Cook, while not as consistently explosive as in years past, isn't exactly chopped liver. He's rushed for 8 scores, caught two more TD passes, and always has to be accounted for.

Three out of five offensive linemen are just fine.

Sorry you're so down on our team.

[tzinc]

I am not down on the team at all. But you have to tell the truth. Dalvin is ok seems slightly less explosive but he's a good RB (Mattison is not) but the running game ie OL is terrible bottom 5. The OL Is also bad at pass blocking: 6th in sacks allowed and allowing your QB to get hit the most times in 20+ years 125. We have 1 good tackle and 1 great tackle that is not enough the guards and center are not good. The adjustments we make to fix the OL at C and G results in bad Pass Pro.

Theilen and KJ benefit from JJ and Kirk's accuracy Theilen can barely run and KJ has issues with getting open I don't see either as the type of #2 WR that could helpp JJ and Kirk - yes we have a Pro Bowl TE but he is not going deep which is what we need from a #2 imo. TJ is great KJ and Theilen are okay.

The defense is terrible bottom 3.

I think a lot of the success is on Kirk and JJ. But the OL and Def and other recievers and runners have been clutch at the right times. That is why I am super excited for this team:

Kirk is one of the most clutch QBs of all time (right there with Elway tied for 9th.) JJ is one of the best WR in the NFL ever! KOC has been pretty good at leading the team. The Punter is good and the Kicker is good again. ST have been off and on but generally ok.

I wish KOC would get more creative with the O at times... and Donatell needs to go back to 4-3 ... but overall I LOVE This team... no team plays harder for each other at crunch time.

The best team doesn't win the SB every year in fact the worst (playoff team) has won a SB.
The reality is MIN is who they are saying GB is... no team is better at coming back no lead is safe against this team people keep saying you don't want to face SF or some other team in the playoffs I guarantee no team wants to play MIN because they literally steal games every week absolutly battle hardened and knowing they can do it at crunch time...

[Raz]

Kirk will own just about every meaningful Vikings quarterback record before he is done here. Is haters will have to eat crow when he lifts the lombardi and puts on his yellow jacket

[halfgiz]

Kirk isn’t consistent, he disappears for quarters at a time. Until he get more consistent and the Defense gets fixed we aren’t hosting nothing.
Add to that, we lost two offensive lineman for the season in that game.