Donatel needs the axe

[Pondering Her Percy]

My point is we have no depth. If one of our starters is down behind the defensive line, we are playing raw rookies and practice squad fodder, why is that a scheme thing? That sounds like a cap thing, or a GM thing, or a scouting thing.

**And let me add as I did before, Bynum has not been great. Last week we roll out with a rusty Dantzler, a coverage bust-prone Bynum, Metellus (who's weirdly been okay when in), a below average Sullivan, and a below average Shelley.

The few games before that, it was the same thing, sans Dantzler, plus Smith.

After about 5-6 weeks there was a thread started on here about giving the defense it's due. Five or six weeks after that, here we are.

Do you know how many teams have lost a starting corner and their defense doesnt fall off a cliff? Backups are backups for a reason. The difference between the best backup in the league and someone like Akayleb Evans is marginal. I'd be hard pressed to think that missing one corner is the reason our pass defense is so horrendous. The Bills were missing both of their starting corners at one point along with a starting safety and their defense did just fine. Definitely hurt them but not drastically. Losing one corner should not make our defense look like it has.

By that same logic, and it's not bad logic, Kevin O'Connell should have no business being the head coach, as it wasn't his offense, it was McVay's. O'Connell brings it with him, as did Donatell with Fangio's.

And O'Connell brought immediate improvement and innovation to this offense. Donatell has done nothing but play the same old defense, the same old way. We've got to be the easiest team to scout defensively in the NFL right now. We dont blitz, we constantly play soft coverage 10 yards off WRs, we never show any different looks, constantly rush 4, Harrison is never in the box anymore, Zadarius is constantly in the middle where it once worked but was quickly figured out because they still think they are being "sneaky", they have no idea how to use Danielle, etc. He's not making any improvements and it's week 14. He's actually gotten progressively worse. What time is there to give? KOC proved he can do it without McVay from the jump. It almost seems like McVay couldnt do it without KOC at this point. However, Donatell is showing he cant do it without Fangio. That is clear.

[Pondering Her Percy]

4th & 26 was, what, 20 years ago?

Feels a little silly to let that be his defining moment.

He may not be on the same tier as Zimmer, but he's certainly made his career as a defensive backs guy. Peterson was not at a Pro-Bowl level last year, most of us weren't even concerned whether or not he was re-signed. He was convinced to come back based on the changes Donatell would make, and apparently it suits him--he's been relatively awesome.

Just like Dantzler, I'm not convinced he's the answer, but based the majority of the personnel we've got behind the defensive line, I'm not inclined to send him packing in the middle of the season.

If these same players get another training camp of this system and are giving up the same type of plays and yardage, I'll be in the front of the line to see him off.

Pat P is playing at the same level as he did last year. He was good/ had some lapses in coverage and got beat sometimes. What has changed is that the middle of the defense is wide open and there is no reason to challenge Pat P when
1. You can get 9 yards a completion anywhere you want on the field.
2. The turnstile at the other CB position makes for an easy play

You might not have wanted Pat back but I was begging for him to come back.
Not sure how you can defend this scheme when we are giving up 9+ yards a catch. That's almost a 1st down a completion. Do you understand how obscene that number is. Most QBs average 7 yards a completing. Anyone that plays us bumps their average 2+ yards. All this with a defense that has HS, EK, PP, DH, ZS and a couple other capable players. You can't tell me that collection of players should be DEAD LAST in the league and setting FRANCHISE RECORDS in defensive ineptitude. Why do we continue to play offman and not blitz. Fire the idiot.

Nothing is more frustrating than it being 3rd and 2 and our corners are 9 yards off their WRs. Like is it me or does it seem like that exact situation is playing out non-stop every single game?

[YikesVikes]

Pat P is playing at the same level as he did last year. He was good/ had some lapses in coverage and got beat sometimes. What has changed is that the middle of the defense is wide open and there is no reason to challenge Pat P when
1. You can get 9 yards a completion anywhere you want on the field.
2. The turnstile at the other CB position makes for an easy play

You might not have wanted Pat back but I was begging for him to come back.
Not sure how you can defend this scheme when we are giving up 9+ yards a catch. That's almost a 1st down a completion. Do you understand how obscene that number is. Most QBs average 7 yards a completing. Anyone that plays us bumps their average 2+ yards. All this with a defense that has HS, EK, PP, DH, ZS and a couple other capable players. You can't tell me that collection of players should be DEAD LAST in the league and setting FRANCHISE RECORDS in defensive ineptitude. Why do we continue to play offman and not blitz. Fire the idiot.

Nothing is more frustrating than it being 3rd and 2 and our corners are 9 yards off their WRs. Like is it me or does it seem like that exact situation is playing out non-stop every single game?

I'll do you one better. Teams come out in Trips or Twins. LB does not walk off in this scheme (at least it appears that way). Team throws the easiest pitch and catch 7 yard completion ever seen in a pro game.

[Texas Vike]

Pat P is playing at the same level as he did last year. He was good/ had some lapses in coverage and got beat sometimes. What has changed is that the middle of the defense is wide open and there is no reason to challenge Pat P when
1. You can get 9 yards a completion anywhere you want on the field.
2. The turnstile at the other CB position makes for an easy play

You might not have wanted Pat back but I was begging for him to come back.
Not sure how you can defend this scheme when we are giving up 9+ yards a catch. That's almost a 1st down a completion. Do you understand how obscene that number is. Most QBs average 7 yards a completing. Anyone that plays us bumps their average 2+ yards. All this with a defense that has HS, EK, PP, DH, ZS and a couple other capable players. You can't tell me that collection of players should be DEAD LAST in the league and setting FRANCHISE RECORDS in defensive ineptitude. Why do we continue to play offman and not blitz. Fire the idiot.

Nothing is more frustrating than it being 3rd and 2 and our corners are 9 yards off their WRs. Like is it me or does it seem like that exact situation is playing out non-stop every single game?

Even 3rd and long. We play so soft that a 3rd a 9 was pretty much a slam dunk for DET. It was mind blowing.

[TheCoolerOne]

I think we should try to blitz more, but I don't think the problem is the whether or not we have three or four down lineman. The pass rushers are winning their reps, but QBs can get the ball out so quickly it doesn't matter.

The secondary is filled with bad players. Peterson and Smith are real savvy, and have ironically excelled either because of or in spite of this scheme, but the rest..heh.

-Dantzler is not good, and almost certainly won't be resigned, not to mention can't stay on the field

-Sullivan was already the weak link heading into the season, and that was thought of as reasonable if everyone else was above average.

-Shelley is a crucial late-game PI waiting to happen (has it already?)

-Booth has been hurt since high school, and while he may have potential, he's a ways away.

-Evans talks the talk, but has only flashed walking the walk.

-Bynum was a CB drafted at Safety, still learning, and a ton of busted plays have been the result of him.

None of this is news to anyone, surely, but what can we really expect to accomplish rushing the passer when as soon as the ball is snapped there is an open receiver?

There may be some scheme issue, but I don't think we'll really know until we have players in the secondary that can operate in it at a high level. You can't just throw out the playbook and install a new scheme. The players are all already thinking too much, and now the solution is to tell them not to think about any of that, start thinking about this?

Maybe it just takes time, and we've exceeded expectations, so that makes it tough to reconcile.

I hope they can figure it out at least to improve passably, but it was always going to come down to trading TDs in the playoffs anyway.

That stiff for the Jets can't get the ball out quickly. We had zero pressure on him and he stood there and tore this junk scheme up. The following week he played like the bum he is. They pressured and sacked him 4 times. Our best front line D players Hunter and Tomlinson are 4-3 guys and played good in that scheme. Tomlinson can play NT also. At 324 he can't play DE in any scheme so why put him there? That's why based on the people we have 4-3 fits best. We have that kid Jones to put in at DE. That's what he was in college. In the playoffs it isn't always trading TDs. But I do know this you better play some D. You need to pressure the QB.

Mike White got the ball out in 2.46 seconds, that was the fourth fastest that week. He was able to do that because no one was covered.

[YikesVikes]

That stiff for the Jets can't get the ball out quickly. We had zero pressure on him and he stood there and tore this junk scheme up. The following week he played like the bum he is. They pressured and sacked him 4 times. Our best front line D players Hunter and Tomlinson are 4-3 guys and played good in that scheme. Tomlinson can play NT also. At 324 he can't play DE in any scheme so why put him there? That's why based on the people we have 4-3 fits best. We have that kid Jones to put in at DE. That's what he was in college. In the playoffs it isn't always trading TDs. But I do know this you better play some D. You need to pressure the QB.

Mike White got the ball out in 2.46 seconds, that was the fourth fastest that week. He was able to do that because no one was covered.

LMAO

[Pondering Her Percy]

That stiff for the Jets can't get the ball out quickly. We had zero pressure on him and he stood there and tore this junk scheme up. The following week he played like the bum he is. They pressured and sacked him 4 times. Our best front line D players Hunter and Tomlinson are 4-3 guys and played good in that scheme. Tomlinson can play NT also. At 324 he can't play DE in any scheme so why put him there? That's why based on the people we have 4-3 fits best. We have that kid Jones to put in at DE. That's what he was in college. In the playoffs it isn't always trading TDs. But I do know this you better play some D. You need to pressure the QB.

Mike White got the ball out in 2.46 seconds, that was the fourth fastest that week. He was able to do that because no one was covered.

Because we play the softest zone in the league and line up 10 yards off WRs. It’s easy pitch and catch

[Texas Vike]

In a way, the Colts matchup is an ABSOLUTE DREAM because it will serve as a barometer. If Donatell trots out his soft coverage, huge cushion for WRs, predictable schemes for pass rush, etc. etc. Matt Ryan and his competent WRs, who have been LAST in the NFL in almost every metric that matters, will tear us apart. I'm serious. The Colts offense sucks. They've scored 18 TDs this season. They give up tons of QB pressures and Ryan has fumbled a record amount. There have also been games where he's had decent protection and he's SHREDDED teams.

If the Colts offense prospers, Donatell should be fired immediately.

[Cliff]

I'm not the biggest fan of his defense either at this point but it requires really good safeties to be effective. That's one of the reasons they took one in the first round. Smith being out is a really big deal as far as the "don't break" aspect of the defense goes. I'm sure they would have also liked Cine to be playing at this point too.

[VikingLord]

I'm not the biggest fan of his defense either at this point but it requires really good safeties to be effective. That's one of the reasons they took one in the first round. Smith being out is a really big deal as far as the "don't break" aspect of the defense goes. I'm sure they would have also liked Cine to be playing at this point too.

Even with Smith in there it's been bad, although I can't say Smith has been bad individually. Of the defensive secondary players, Peterson and Smith seem to have stood out in a negative way the least often.

It seems the issue is more scheme than players. Coverages are soft and seem to rely on pressure forcing early or poor throws. If there is no pressure the throws are simple and uncontested. I doubt having a healthy Cine or Booth or anyone else would make a big difference if the scheme basically prevents DBs from being close enough to contest throws.

Ryan simply cannot be allowed to stand in the pocket all day and find receivers. If that happens again, Donatell should be relieved of his duties.

[JJBreaksRecords]

I'm not the biggest fan of his defense either at this point but it requires really good safeties to be effective. That's one of the reasons they took one in the first round. Smith being out is a really big deal as far as the "don't break" aspect of the defense goes. I'm sure they would have also liked Cine to be playing at this point too.

Even with Smith in there it's been bad, although I can't say Smith has been bad individually. Of the defensive secondary players, Peterson and Smith seem to have stood out in a negative way the least often.

It seems the issue is more scheme than players. Coverages are soft and seem to rely on pressure forcing early or poor throws. If there is no pressure the throws are simple and uncontested. I doubt having a healthy Cine or Booth or anyone else would make a big difference if the scheme basically prevents DBs from being close enough to contest throws.

Ryan simply cannot be allowed to stand in the pocket all day and find receivers. If that happens again, Donatell should be relieved of his duties.

I agree, especially if Donatell's D fails once again. Staley(sp?) or any other assistant that knows the 3-4 AND how to get pressure on the QB. Because, as you said, other than PP and Smith the secondary is way below average. Hopefully, with so much talk about the D this week by the media, things change.

[CharVike]

Even with Smith in there it's been bad, although I can't say Smith has been bad individually. Of the defensive secondary players, Peterson and Smith seem to have stood out in a negative way the least often.

It seems the issue is more scheme than players. Coverages are soft and seem to rely on pressure forcing early or poor throws. If there is no pressure the throws are simple and uncontested. I doubt having a healthy Cine or Booth or anyone else would make a big difference if the scheme basically prevents DBs from being close enough to contest throws.

Ryan simply cannot be allowed to stand in the pocket all day and find receivers. If that happens again, Donatell should be relieved of his duties.

I agree, especially if Donatell's D fails once again. Staley(sp?) or any other assistant that knows the 3-4 AND how to get pressure on the QB. Because, as you said, other than PP and Smith the secondary is way below average. Hopefully, with so much talk about the D this week by the media, things change.

So you want to stick with this 3-4 hunk of junk. Just keep Donnie. His word is spreading on down. It will be the same crap different day. Since we have every possible front created just get back to the 4-3 so Hunter isn't losing steps and move the big man Tomlinson back inside were he has played his entire career. So instead of running everything and the play book containing volumes just rip out the 4-3 stuff and it will be a few pages. Bynum isn't below average because he makes plays on the ball. He gets caught up because someone needs to help Hunter and Z because neither are known for their great coverage skills. They are pass rushers.

[JJBreaksRecords]

D was HORRIBLE in the first half once again. But maybe Donatell mad some adjustments. Or maybe Ryan just sucked. He has got to clean some of that up if we are to go anywhere this year.

[VikingLord]

D was HORRIBLE in the first half once again. But maybe Donatell mad some adjustments. Or maybe Ryan just sucked. He has got to clean some of that up if we are to go anywhere this year.

The whole team was bad in the first half. I can't lay it all at the feet of the defense. The special teams gave up big plays, the offense turned it over, and the team overall was really bad. The defense did give up over 200 yards in the half, so they don't get a pass, but it truly was a team effort to fall so far behind.

[CharVike]

D was HORRIBLE in the first half once again. But maybe Donatell mad some adjustments. Or maybe Ryan just sucked. He has got to clean some of that up if we are to go anywhere this year.

The whole team was bad in the first half. I can't lay it all at the feet of the defense. The special teams gave up big plays, the offense turned it over, and the team overall was really bad. The defense did give up over 200 yards in the half, so they don't get a pass, but it truly was a team effort to fall so far behind.

It was a team effort the 2nd half also. The D actually did a great job. Of course the Colts suck which always helps. Regardless of the final outcome this season I want Donatell gone. This bend but don't break BS is the most lame a$$ philosophy I have ever seen. Even the 85 Bears with their personnel would have been crap in this scheme. William Perry would have played DE at 335+ and Dent would have been shifted out of the action. I can't think of one positive aspect of this scheme.