Patriots @ Vikings post game

[CharVike]

Big win. National spot. Tons of TV eyes. Good NE team with a very good defense. Offense continued to make plays when it was needed. Entire passing game was very good. Offensive line was outstanding, especially with the injuries. Huge kudos here to the players and the coaches for adjusting. I was going to lose my #### if they did the same thing (lack of) they did against DAL from a play calling and protection stand point. They didn't. Huge adjustment on short rest. Players executed, Brandel was much better, and coaches adjusted.

This defense. Woof. I still don't know what it excels at. I feel like I'm watching a college game...where so much the philosophy is..."just don't let them score more than our uptempo high octane offense". Yes, I'm aware that's the point of the game. I'd like to see the defense shut someone down. Sometimes in the NFL you have to do that when your offense can't just "out scheme" the other team. It feels like the only thing that's happening on defense is we get bailed out by an amazing play here and there by one of the few amazing players we have on defense. IE the late Hunter sack. That was great play by Hunter and bad play by their LOT.

Now granted, I can acknowledge part of a scheme is putting players into position to make plays. I just don't think that's happening. I think the players are making plays in spite of Donatell and his scheme. Do think that lack of depth is hurting some of the...what could be.

At some point if we want to be serious contenders, we will have to win up front on defense in playoff football.

9-2. Huge win on national TV after the DAL debacle. Oline looked so much better. Great job players and coaches adjusting there. I am growing more confident in the young offensive coaching staff as they get experience. I love how loose the players looked and carried themselves, while still being focused and executing. I think that's attributed to the new regime.

Edit: Oh yeah, derp, huge shout out to ST. Played fantastic. Return TDs are such momentum movers!
Wright did his best acting job a few times yesterday. Not the flagged play, there was one in the 4th Q as well iirc, where he just totally flopped. Heh. I know they all do now looking for a flag.

Joseph's XPs are a liability. Don't talk about pre-season kickers. It doesn't fing matter. XPs have to get made. I've taken up for past missed XP (whole unit screwing up with lineman rushing out late). Joseph is the worst by made XP percent in the league now. 82.8% XP made. McManus is next regular K closest at 83.3% and then it's Santos at 87%.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_ ... t/dir/desc

(part of me hopes I have egg on my face later in the year about that above haha)

Donatell is gut turning. NE were missing 2 offensive line starters and one was their center. I would have attacked that OL like a wild bore. We sat back in some BS protect coverage and allowed the QB to stand there. This guy is an idiot. Attack the QB or you will get burnt. He did the same BS against Dak and he looked unbelievable. Playing soft sucks and gives us very little chance when playing it. Mac looked like the mad bomber. We made Allen look bad because we got after him. He probably dropped that snap because he was worried about pressure in the end zone. The guy sucks and his scheme sucks worse.

[Maelstrom88]

It seems like Donatell runs prevent the whole game. We are constantly giving up chunk plays underneath and hoping to stop them in the red zone. The only way they get a stop is if the offense makes a mistake. A poorly thrown pass or a drop.

[Maelstrom88]

The run blocking was awful though. Dalvin had 22 carries fir like 1.7 ypc. At the end when we tried to run it to ice the game it was pitiful.

[IIsweet]

Have to point out something. The defense that Green Bay played with a big lead vs the Cowboys, and then lost, is exactly what we play. So Dallas had already had created great timing, was in sync, already saw and had huge success against our type of D, right before we played them.
NE had the game plan and did really well. Donatell has to change something up. I agree that we have to create pressure.
The reason for our zone is the lack of speed on defense.
Sooooooo, attack the QB with pressure eliminating the offensive players to get into space. Donatell is calling plays to avoid the big play. Problem is that the defense has been exposed. Not having Cam Dantzler is a bigger deal than expected. Not having Akayleb Evans hurts also.
It will get better as we get those guys back healthy.
However, Donatell has to do better right now. HUGE win. 9-2. Really looking forward to better defensive stands.
The offense deserves better.
9-2 and 3 of next 4 games at home, but all 4 indoors before going to GB and then CHI.
Jets, Lions, Colts, NYG could be 4 wins before Christmas.

[Husker Vike]

Our special teams really helped to win this game, the Patriots special teams really lost it for them. Donatell has to get this defense to improve though as we looked bad last night . Belichick will be pissed when he addresses them this week! Great to beat him !

[Chi-Town Vike]

Special Teams, don't forget the special teams. Sweet KO return but, Joseph remains a liability. Pats special teams cost them big time. Running into the kicker and fielding a punt at their 2 with a minute to play. Mac Jones 119 passer rating no T/O's 2 TD's and 382 career high passing yards. A lil better than Kirk on the night. Good game but, Vikes need to make some strides goin forward.

Joseph has to go after the season, Vikings can not afford to be missing extra points or it would come back and bite Vikings in the butt

why wait? put a stake in the ground outside the bank. Help wanted!!! Place kicker. Must be able to convert extra points and occasionally a long one. Must be willing to work overtime when required lol. Qualified canidates apply inside..

[Chi-Town Vike]

The run blocking was awful though. Dalvin had 22 carries fir like 1.7 ypc. At the end when we tried to run it to ice the game it was pitiful.

More like 1.7 feet lol.

[Chi-Town Vike]

Side note on the broadcast.

Tony Dungy and Jason Garrett were REALLY GOOD as in-game analysts. Fantastic insight. I remember one play where the back judge threw a penalty flag, and Dungy noted that a flag there usually means holding on a defensive lineman. Sure enough, that’s exactly what it was. I also recall that ridiculous catch by JJ near the end of the first half. Garrett called it an “east-west” doubleteam, and Dungy said, “They forgot about north.” Really good stuff. Add in Mike Tirico, who is always really good, and it made for a great broadcast. Best I’ve heard this season.

And the post-game interview with Kirko, AT and JJ … that was TV gold! Kirko says he needs to call his dentist and get some grills like JJ. AT spitting out the turkey: “A little dry.” If nothing else, the Vikings are really entertaining.

You left out Melissa Stark. Shame! Shame on you!!!! i wanted more of her, a lot more! 49 and amazing. She does a good job too. I just might start a Melissa Stark thread. One worthy of a sticky!.

[VikingLord]

The reason for our zone is the lack of speed on defense.

I'm not sure speed is the main culprit behind leaving receivers wide open or failing to collapse passing lanes when in zone defense, especially when the Vikings are rushing only 4. It could be. I don't know if it is speed across the board with the secondary or speed at the LB position. Something is off though.

In looking at it more closely, it seems the main area where the Vikings get victimized is the central middle part of the field, followed closely by the short sidelines and flats. They do give up deeper areas as well, but in most cases those are at least contested throws. But in the central middle and short sidelines, the throws are often wide open and in the case of the sideline routes often lead to substantial YAC by the TEs or RBs who are usually running those routes.

So what do the central middle and short sidelines have in common? Both are usually the responsibility of linebackers for coverage. The Vikings LBs on a lot of those plays are Kendricks and Hicks.

On the central middle, are the LBs getting deep enough drops to affect the QB's ability to read that part of the field? If they are not, why not? Maybe the scheme forces them to play more shallow? Or maybe they are watching something else that forces them to remain more shallow? On the short sideline routes, are they just being outrun? If so, why all the YAC on those routes? Unless the throws are perfect, most short crossing or out routes run by TEs or RBs don't usually give the receiver time to both make the catch and turn up the field, yet on many of those throws there is not a Viking defender within 10 yards. Very puzzling, because if nobody is covering those routes, what are they covering? On most of them they're certainly not blitzing. In fact, those routes and receivers look exactly like what one would expect if a defense sent extra rushers, and yet the Vikings are usually sending four rushers on those plays and the receivers are still basically uncovered on the routes.

Very puzzling. I can't make sense of it, especially for it to be continuing week after week and against opponent after opponent. I guess I can understand if the Vikings gave up plays like that to a Josh Allen or a Jalen Hurts who are capable of taking off and hurting you on the ground. Maybe you need to leave a LB in close to negate that threat (although the Vikings really didn't negate either one if they did try to use Kendricks or Hicks in that way), but what is happening against QBs like Dak Prescott and Mac Jones who aren't a threat to run?

Maybe somebody else on the board has more insight, but I'd call this the case of the missing LBs in pass coverage. Where are they when opposing offenses are picking up these easy passing plays? What are their responsibilities, and why can't Donatell tighten things up so it isn't so easy for opposing QBs? Maybe the Vikings LBs just suck in pass coverage? One could make that argument. If that is the case, wouldn't it be better then to send at least one on the blitz? I mean, if they can't cover maybe they can at least get some pressure and force an errant throw or something.

Something is definitely off with coverage in that central middle and short sideline area of the field though. The going is way too easy there.

[Chi-Town Vike]

Our special teams really helped to win this game, the Patriots special teams really lost it for them. Donatell has to get this defense to improve though as we looked bad last night . Belichick will be pissed when he addresses them this week! Great to beat him !

Looked bad just last night? You gotta be kidding right? I know the Holiday just started but the defense is the gift that keeps on giving lol. Not getting any turnovers the last 2 games isn't a very good for our cause. The well runs dry, they're screwed.

[IIsweet]

The reason for our zone is the lack of speed on defense.

I'm not sure speed is the main culprit behind leaving receivers wide open or failing to collapse passing lanes when in zone defense, especially when the Vikings are rushing only 4. It could be. I don't know if it is speed across the board with the secondary or speed at the LB position. Something is off though.

In looking at it more closely, it seems the main area where the Vikings get victimized is the central middle part of the field, followed closely by the short sidelines and flats. They do give up deeper areas as well, but in most cases those are at least contested throws. But in the central middle and short sidelines, the throws are often wide open and in the case of the sideline routes often lead to substantial YAC by the TEs or RBs who are usually running those routes.

So what do the central middle and short sidelines have in common? Both are usually the responsibility of linebackers for coverage. The Vikings LBs on a lot of those plays are Kendricks and Hicks.

On the central middle, are the LBs getting deep enough drops to affect the QB's ability to read that part of the field? If they are not, why not? Maybe the scheme forces them to play more shallow? Or maybe they are watching something else that forces them to remain more shallow? On the short sideline routes, are they just being outrun? If so, why all the YAC on those routes? Unless the throws are perfect, most short crossing or out routes run by TEs or RBs don't usually give the receiver time to both make the catch and turn up the field, yet on many of those throws there is not a Viking defender within 10 yards. Very puzzling, because if nobody is covering those routes, what are they covering? On most of them they're certainly not blitzing. In fact, those routes and receivers look exactly like what one would expect if a defense sent extra rushers, and yet the Vikings are usually sending four rushers on those plays and the receivers are still basically uncovered on the routes.

Very puzzling. I can't make sense of it, especially for it to be continuing week after week and against opponent after opponent. I guess I can understand if the Vikings gave up plays like that to a Josh Allen or a Jalen Hurts who are capable of taking off and hurting you on the ground. Maybe you need to leave a LB in close to negate that threat (although the Vikings really didn't negate either one if they did try to use Kendricks or Hicks in that way), but what is happening against QBs like Dak Prescott and Mac Jones who aren't a threat to run?

Maybe somebody else on the board has more insight, but I'd call this the case of the missing LBs in pass coverage. Where are they when opposing offenses are picking up these easy passing plays? What are their responsibilities, and why can't Donatell tighten things up so it isn't so easy for opposing QBs? Maybe the Vikings LBs just suck in pass coverage? One could make that argument. If that is the case, wouldn't it be better then to send at least one on the blitz? I mean, if they can't cover maybe they can at least get some pressure and force an errant throw or something.

Something is definitely off with coverage in that central middle and short sideline area of the field though. The going is way too easy there.

Love all that but why is there so much room ? Not all on the LBers but also why is the safety so deep then ? Because Hit Man and Bynum are not fast either, so they are over compensating as well. There is a complete lack of elite speed, in a speed league !
EK, Hicks, Harrison are not young anymore. Bynum is not known for speed either. So it is get deeper and keep everything in front. But when so much space is available, you have huge gaps.
It's going to be the way they play, how do they offset it? Getting Dalvin Tomlinson back and Dantzler and Evans helps a ton.
They HAVE TO get pressure on the QB !!!!!

[Chi-Town Vike]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... A&usqp=CAU

I have found the solution to our kicking woes. Step aside Greg Joseph!


https://spookyshobbyshop.com/TEMPLATE%2 ... 6%20G+.JPG

[makila]

The run blocking was awful though. Dalvin had 22 carries fir like 1.7 ypc. At the end when we tried to run it to ice the game it was pitiful.

Yeah it was noticeable how little push they were getting, especially those last two series where we were just trying to get a single 1st down and force them to call TOs. We couldn't.

[J. Kapp 11]

Side note on the broadcast.

Tony Dungy and Jason Garrett were REALLY GOOD as in-game analysts. Fantastic insight. I remember one play where the back judge threw a penalty flag, and Dungy noted that a flag there usually means holding on a defensive lineman. Sure enough, that’s exactly what it was. I also recall that ridiculous catch by JJ near the end of the first half. Garrett called it an “east-west” doubleteam, and Dungy said, “They forgot about north.” Really good stuff. Add in Mike Tirico, who is always really good, and it made for a great broadcast. Best I’ve heard this season.

And the post-game interview with Kirko, AT and JJ … that was TV gold! Kirko says he needs to call his dentist and get some grills like JJ. AT spitting out the turkey: “A little dry.” If nothing else, the Vikings are really entertaining.

You left out Melissa Stark. Shame! Shame on you!!!! i wanted more of her, a lot more! 49 and amazing. She does a good job too. I just might start a Melissa Stark thread. One worthy of a sticky!.

Sounds like you got a lil’ thing for Melissa. (Don’t blame you. For the record, 49 is pretty young to me! )

The whole broadcast was really good. But the best part may be today on Twitter. Patriots fans are whining about everything and anything, including how Tony Dungy was supposedly biased toward the Vikings because he hates the Patriots. They also used some pretty bizarre math to determine that the referees cost them 21 points. My god, I had no idea that Beaners were such babies!

[Pondering Her Percy]

I think this defense can be a lot better if they would blitz a little more. Anytime they did (maybe a couple times at most), Mac crapped his pants. It feels like we’re staying in a prevent type defense all game.

Granted many want to blame corner play but I didn’t think Shelley was awful. Wasn’t good but held up okay. I think our biggest problem is nobody on the interior that can rush the passer and I think our LBs are killing us. Kendricks has been extremely quiet. Hicks can’t cover. I would really like to see Asamoah in there more. We need some speed at LB. Interior DL we are screwed. Dalvin can get some push so that helps but outside of that the cupboard is bare.

If you want to rely on rushing 4, like zimmer did a lot late in his tenure and just rely on your two DEs to get to the QB, that’s not a good strategy. Granted, Smith and Hunter lead the league in pressures as a duo but if teams can figure that out you’re in trouble. They have to blitz more. Hell, even dummy a blitz. We don’t even do that. It’s the same setup 98% of the time. You have to keep offenses on their toes and we don’t, we just show the same bland look every time.

IMO, is this defense loaded with talent? No I wouldn’t say loaded but they have enough talent to be middle of the pack but Donatell and his scheme is not helping them get to middle of the pack