Justin Jefferson

[Chi-Town Vike]

JJ reminds me of another JJ as of right now. John Jefferson was a Hell of a receiver with the Dan Fouts led Chargers back in the 70's. Unbelievable grabs that he made were spectacular. Then they had Charlie Joiner on the other side. Kellen Winslow at TE .

[J. Kapp 11]

According to Next Gen Stats:



Just STOP with the idea that if JJ continues his current trajectory, he’ll only be third in Vikings history. We’re witnessing potentially the best in NFL HISTORY. Cris Carter, for all his greatness, was not better than this kid. And Moss, while an athletic freak, couldn’t run routes like JJ.

Jefferson still has a long way to go to catch them. But if he stays healthy, he’ll pass them both, especially if O’Connell sticks around.

I've seen Moss and Jefferson play. Jefferson is not in the same realm as Moss. Love him, but no way.

What, you think I HAVEN’T seen Moss play? What kind of comment is that?

Moss had one skill … an all-time great one, but still one. He could beat you deep. Yes, he was the best in history at that. But he was not a precise route runner, he did not like going over the middle, he didn’t fight for YAC, and he didn’t think blocking was worth his time. He made his living being the fastest 6-4 human in NFL history, and having a basketball player’s vertical jump. Throw it up and let Randy go get it. But do not tell me he was a complete receiver in the way JJ is cuz it just ain’t true.

Randy Moss was an electric player who changed the way the NFL played defense. JJ is putting up better numbers against those updated defenses. I will say this. If Justin Jefferson stays healthy over the next 4 years, getting him to 7 years, he will eclipse every statistic Randy Moss ever recorded in his 7 years with the Vikings except for touchdowns.

[J. Kapp 11]

And you're just going to have to accept mine. Deal?

I accept that it's your opinion. I also believe your opinion couldn't be more wrong. Jefferson can't IMO be mentioned in the same breath as Moss. Moss take a breath Jefferson. That's OK.
If IF IF Jefferson ever has a 20TD season I will reconsider.

Randy Moss didn’t have a 20-TD season for the Vikings.

We’re talking about the greatest Viking receivers. Moss gets No. 1 right now because he’s got 7 years of equity with the Vikes vs. less than 3 for JJ. But once JJ gets to 7 years, there will be no comparison statistically.

[J. Kapp 11]

How do you define "best", because it seems like first off all, its impossible to compare the 3 since 1 of them is active and the other two are retired. Are we talking total yards for a career? Some period of time during a career? With the Vikings, or overall? TDs? Playoff success? What if the Vikings win the Superbowl this year and JJ pulls in another impossible catch to win it all?

I get where you're coming from (I think), but JJ is in his 3rd year in the league and in his first two the Vikings didn't exactly enjoy a lot of success. Seems a little bit early to call the ball in terms of where he ends up in the pantheon of Vikings greats.

With that said, Moss was a unique athlete. Obviously JJ will never develop into Moss in terms of that aspect of the two players, but beyond that I see no reason JJ can't meet or exceed the overall careers of either or both of Carter and Moss. He's already on track to do exactly that in most statistical categories as I understand it.

Teams pass more these days so receivers put up more numbers. It doesn't mean they're better, but it doesn't mean they aren't. I've seen Jefferson play and I've seen Moss play. Moss was better.

STOP IT!

We’ve ALL seen them both play. Just because you saw them both doesn’t make you right!

You’re entitled to your opinion, but that’s all it is.

[VikingsVictorious]

I've seen Moss and Jefferson play. Jefferson is not in the same realm as Moss. Love him, but no way.

I've seen Moss drop a sure uncontested TD in a clutch situation with no defender really even a factor. He heard steps lol. Just one of the reasons why the Vikings lost the 98 NFC championship Game. Make that Catch and Garry Anderson never Has to attempt a FG in OT. Jefferson, according to some sports Journalists and NFL types are already drawing comparisons between him and Jerry Rice. Was Moss as good as Jerry Rice? Or even John Taylor? for that matter.

I'm finding out that you sure like looking for and finding the negative. When it comes to best WR of all time the discussion begins and ends with Jerry Rice and Randy Moss. You can compile massive lists in favor of both and the answer is very debatable, but only between those two.

John freaking Taylor I barely remember the name he was so impressive.

Speaking of the 98 game Culpepper got injured before the OT. He couldn't make the throw anymore when Randy Moss got 10 yards behind the Falcons D in OT. Denny should have had the backup in the game. I think it was Brad Johnson at the time. If he had done that I think we may have had our Super Bowl already. Trying to pin the blame on Moss really.

[VikingsVictorious]

Teams pass more these days so receivers put up more numbers. It doesn't mean they're better, but it doesn't mean they aren't. I've seen Jefferson play and I've seen Moss play. Moss was better.

STOP IT!

We’ve ALL seen them both play. Just because you saw them both doesn’t make you right!

You’re entitled to your opinion, but that’s all it is.

I don't have to stop it. I don't even consider it an opinion. I consider it an obvious fact. You always seem to get upset when I take a strong stance.
You're entitled to your opinion, but if your opinion is that Jefferson is in the same ballpark as Moss my opinion is your opinion is way off base.

[VikingsVictorious]

I accept that it's your opinion. I also believe your opinion couldn't be more wrong. Jefferson can't IMO be mentioned in the same breath as Moss. Moss take a breath Jefferson. That's OK.
If IF IF Jefferson ever has a 20TD season I will reconsider.

Randy Moss didn’t have a 20-TD season for the Vikings.

We’re talking about the greatest Viking receivers. Moss gets No. 1 right now because he’s got 7 years of equity with the Vikes vs. less than 3 for JJ. But once JJ gets to 7 years, there will be no comparison statistically.

To me if Moss only played his rookie year for the Vikings he's the greatest Vikings WR of all time. Not in accumulated stats. Just in being better by far than everybody else including Carter and Jefferson. Moss IIRC had 18 TDs his rookie season. Maybe it was 17. They played IIRC one less game at that time. Passing was not as prominent at that time. For me to reconsider I stand by Jefferson needing a 20 TD season. Prove that not only can he catch a lot of passes and get a lot of yards, but he can also be explosive and take the passes to the bank/House/end zone.

[VikingsVictorious]

I've seen Moss and Jefferson play. Jefferson is not in the same realm as Moss. Love him, but no way.

What, you think I HAVEN’T seen Moss play? What kind of comment is that?

Moss had one skill … an all-time great one, but still one. He could beat you deep. Yes, he was the best in history at that. But he was not a precise route runner, he did not like going over the middle, he didn’t fight for YAC, and he didn’t think blocking was worth his time. He made his living being the fastest 6-4 human in NFL history, and having a basketball player’s vertical jump. Throw it up and let Randy go get it. But do not tell me he was a complete receiver in the way JJ is cuz it just ain’t true.

Randy Moss was an electric player who changed the way the NFL played defense. JJ is putting up better numbers against those updated defenses. I will say this. If Justin Jefferson stays healthy over the next 4 years, getting him to 7 years, he will eclipse every statistic Randy Moss ever recorded in his 7 years with the Vikings except for touchdowns.

I call BS on the bolded above. Moss could do everything a WR is supposed to do including being a very good blocker for Robert Smith. You didn't mention his incredible hands because without those his other skills would have been wasted. He was an incredible threat from any and everywhere on the field. From our own 1 yard line to the opposing 1 yard line. I've seen him do some very good work over the middle. However, that wasn't the best use of his talent. So sure let Carter do more of that. Moss was every bit as complete a receiver as Jefferson only better.
Since when were we discussing who would have better accumulated stats? I thought we were discussing who was the better player. Jefferson in 7 years, with more games per year in a league that passes way more now, I have no doubt will eclipse Randy's receptions and Yards. I don't think he will eclipse Randy's YPR and I'm in full agreement he won't eclipse Randy's single season or career TD receptions in that time because he just isn't as explosive. I place a lot of stock in that.

[VikingLord]

How do you define "best", because it seems like first off all, its impossible to compare the 3 since 1 of them is active and the other two are retired. Are we talking total yards for a career? Some period of time during a career? With the Vikings, or overall? TDs? Playoff success? What if the Vikings win the Superbowl this year and JJ pulls in another impossible catch to win it all?

I get where you're coming from (I think), but JJ is in his 3rd year in the league and in his first two the Vikings didn't exactly enjoy a lot of success. Seems a little bit early to call the ball in terms of where he ends up in the pantheon of Vikings greats.

With that said, Moss was a unique athlete. Obviously JJ will never develop into Moss in terms of that aspect of the two players, but beyond that I see no reason JJ can't meet or exceed the overall careers of either or both of Carter and Moss. He's already on track to do exactly that in most statistical categories as I understand it.

Teams pass more these days so receivers put up more numbers. It doesn't mean they're better, but it doesn't mean they aren't. I've seen Jefferson play and I've seen Moss play. Moss was better.

That is an opinion based on what you saw and see. While I respect your opinion, it's not based on anything objective.

Also, not sure if I agree that teams these days pass more than the 1998 Vikings. That team passed quite a bit IIRC, and was one of the most prolific offenses of all time as a result.

Last thing I wanted to point out was that Moss had the benefit of playing on some really great teams during his career. A few stinkers, sure, but the 1998 and 2001 Vikings offenses were stacked, as were the Patriots offenses he played on. Moss benefited greatly from that.

Jefferson has some talent around him as well, but it would be hard to argue that talent is near what Moss had on average, especially for Moss' first 3 years in the league.

[VikingsVictorious]

Teams pass more these days so receivers put up more numbers. It doesn't mean they're better, but it doesn't mean they aren't. I've seen Jefferson play and I've seen Moss play. Moss was better.

That is an opinion based on what you saw and see. While I respect your opinion, it's not based on anything objective.

Also, not sure if I agree that teams these days pass more than the 1998 Vikings. That team passed quite a bit IIRC, and was one of the most prolific offenses of all time as a result.

Last thing I wanted to point out was that Moss had the benefit of playing on some really great teams during his career. A few stinkers, sure, but the 1998 and 2001 Vikings offenses were stacked, as were the Patriots offenses he played on. Moss benefited greatly from that.

Jefferson has some talent around him as well, but it would be hard to argue that talent is near what Moss had on average, especially for Moss' first 3 years in the league.

I appreciate your post. The Vikings passed a lot, but I doubt as much as 2022 teams do. We had a great running game as well. You mention the talent factor and I agree. Moss had to share with Carter. JJ has to share with what looks like a rapidly declining Thielen. Jefferson is getting a HUGE target share to pad his stats.
The reason that I bring up seeing them both play is to me it is beyond comprehension that somebody could see them both play and form the opinion that Jefferson is as good or better. Better is not a provable thing. You can't prove that Jefferson is better than KJ Osborn, but you can be certain beyond any reasonable doubt. I can't prove Moss is better than JJ, but I am certain beyond any reasonable doubt. If Moss was on trial accused of being better than JJ I would convict him.

[VikingLord]

That is an opinion based on what you saw and see. While I respect your opinion, it's not based on anything objective.

Also, not sure if I agree that teams these days pass more than the 1998 Vikings. That team passed quite a bit IIRC, and was one of the most prolific offenses of all time as a result.

Last thing I wanted to point out was that Moss had the benefit of playing on some really great teams during his career. A few stinkers, sure, but the 1998 and 2001 Vikings offenses were stacked, as were the Patriots offenses he played on. Moss benefited greatly from that.

Jefferson has some talent around him as well, but it would be hard to argue that talent is near what Moss had on average, especially for Moss' first 3 years in the league.

I appreciate your post. The Vikings passed a lot, but I doubt as much as 2022 teams do. We had a great running game as well. You mention the talent factor and I agree. Moss had to share with Carter. JJ has to share with what looks like a rapidly declining Thielen. Jefferson is getting a HUGE target share to pad his stats.
The reason that I bring up seeing them both play is to me it is beyond comprehension that somebody could see them both play and form the opinion that Jefferson is as good or better. Better is not a provable thing. You can't prove that Jefferson is better than KJ Osborn, but you can be certain beyond any reasonable doubt. I can't prove Moss is better than JJ, but I am certain beyond any reasonable doubt. If Moss was on trial accused of being better than JJ I would convict him.

That's great. I seriously mean that. That made me laugh.

One other thing that factors in total yardage is that there is now an extra regular season game each season. Moss had a 16 game season, while JJ and all current receivers get the benefit of 17 games, so that plays into it as well and supports your argument. Even if teams don't pass more on a per-game basis, they still have an extra game to pass.

One thing I think we can all agree on as Vikings fans is we've had the pleasure of watching some really amazing and talented athletes play WR for our Vikings throughout their history, and it looks like we now have another such player with JJ. I was surprised and pleased when the Vikings managed to get Moss in the draft, and I can say I was equally surprised and pleased when they managed to snag JJ where they did in his draft class, because just as Moss should have been gone in the the first 5 picks, I felt like JJ was a top 10 talent at least coming out. Both guys fell to the Vikings in the early 20's, though, and both were passed over (no pun intended - well, maybe a small pun...) for other receivers who didn't end up having nearly their amount of immediate or longer term impact.

[CharVike]

I've seen Moss and Jefferson play. Jefferson is not in the same realm as Moss. Love him, but no way.

What, you think I HAVEN’T seen Moss play? What kind of comment is that?

Moss had one skill … an all-time great one, but still one. He could beat you deep. Yes, he was the best in history at that. But he was not a precise route runner, he did not like going over the middle, he didn’t fight for YAC, and he didn’t think blocking was worth his time. He made his living being the fastest 6-4 human in NFL history, and having a basketball player’s vertical jump. Throw it up and let Randy go get it. But do not tell me he was a complete receiver in the way JJ is cuz it just ain’t true.

Randy Moss was an electric player who changed the way the NFL played defense. JJ is putting up better numbers against those updated defenses. I will say this. If Justin Jefferson stays healthy over the next 4 years, getting him to 7 years, he will eclipse every statistic Randy Moss ever recorded in his 7 years with the Vikings except for touchdowns.

Moss had one skill? He couldn't catch a football? I don't remember too many drops or balls bouncing off his hands. How about returning punts? Moss made stiff QBs look like HOFer. Salisbury steak was one of them. Once Cousin steps down and we start the recycling of stiffs again JJs numbers will change. He had a chance last year without Kirk and he didn't do much. Give him year after year of the Joe Webb's of the world. It will be different. R Smith said Moss could block.

[Maelstrom88]

https://youtube.com/user/bsdavis011

Look up Moss myth busting videos on this channel. He has a lot of good one's. I think JJ is the best young WR in the league but I'm not ready to put him up there with Moss or CC. One had what I would consider the best hands of any WR of all time. The other was the equivalent of a nuclear weapon on the field. He changed how you view the WR position and was always a threat to blow the game wide open.

[Chi-Town Vike]

I've seen Moss drop a sure uncontested TD in a clutch situation with no defender really even a factor. He heard steps lol. Just one of the reasons why the Vikings lost the 98 NFC championship Game. Make that Catch and Garry Anderson never Has to attempt a FG in OT. Jefferson, according to some sports Journalists and NFL types are already drawing comparisons between him and Jerry Rice. Was Moss as good as Jerry Rice? Or even John Taylor? for that matter.

I'm finding out that you sure like looking for and finding the negative. When it comes to best WR of all time the discussion begins and ends with Jerry Rice and Randy Moss. You can compile massive lists in favor of both and the answer is very debatable, but only between those two.

John freaking Taylor I barely remember the name he was so impressive.

Speaking of the 98 game Culpepper got injured before the OT. He couldn't make the throw anymore when Randy Moss got 10 yards behind the Falcons D in OT. Denny should have had the backup in the game. I think it was Brad Johnson at the time. If he had done that I think we may have had our Super Bowl already. Trying to pin the blame on Moss really.

With all due respect, it's difficult to take you seriously now. Culpepper and Johnson weren't even part of the equation in the 98 championship game. As i recall, Brad was injured early on in the season. RANDALL CUNNINGHAM replaced Johnson and took over as starter the rest of the way. C'mon get with the program!!!!! You're debating me and you don't even have your facts straight.

[J. Kapp 11]

https://youtube.com/user/bsdavis011

Look up Moss myth busting videos on this channel. He has a lot of good one's. I think JJ is the best young WR in the league but I'm not ready to put him up there with Moss or CC. One had what I would consider the best hands of any WR of all time. The other was the equivalent of a nuclear weapon on the field. He changed how you view the WR position and was always a threat to blow the game wide open.

First, since you went to the trouble of providing the link, I did you the courtesy of looking at the "Moss can't run routes" myth video. Thank you. Very interesting. It doesn't really bust the myth for me, though. Half the clips they show are go routes in one form or another. The others are simple hitch routes or post routes. A few double moves, but he doesn't stem guys up the way JJ does. He just blows by them. Defenders were terrified of him, and you can see it in the way they played him.

Also, let's clear something up. I didn't mean to say Moss only had one skill. I said he had one GREAT skill. By that I mean his ability to run by people and jump over them. He certainly had other skills, but that was the skill that set him apart and made him a Hall of Famer and a top 3 receiver of all time. He was a good route runner, but there is no way you'll ever convince me he was the route runner JJ or Diggs or even Adam Thielen is — or even among the top 10 route runners of his own era. That's because it didn't matter. He was so dominant physically that he didn't HAVE to be a precise route runner. Guys like Thielen and JJ (and Carter in his day) have to truly perfect the fine details of their craft because they can't just physically dominate defensive backs like Moss could.

Maybe that's what I appreciate about JJ. He's doing what he's doing without the size, speed or physical gifts of somebody like Randy Moss.

Finally, I saw Randy Moss play in person many times. Make no mistake ... I acknowledge that he was an all-time great player. A game changer. A once-in-a-generation talent who was absolutely electric to watch. But he was not perfect. Neither is JJ. But I do believe when it's all said and done, assuming good health, JJ will be the greatest Viking WR. He's not there yet, and maybe he's not close yet, but I believe he will be. In fact, he may very well end up as the greatest NFL WR of all time.

This is my opinion. It is not more valid than anyone else's. But it's also not less valid. It's what I believe, and I respect those who disagree. I hope you all will afford me the same respect.