Re: A little early but college QBs

[fiestavike]

I wonder if they are going to try to bring Teddy back. Zimmer loves him so it is not hard to see that approach. That being said, he'll command vet QB money and will be highly sought after in FA this off season. Then again, I suspect the rush on "Lamar Jackson" clones in the draft so you might get a more traditional talent later than you might normally see him in the draft. Same could be true of other positions.

However, I have to say I agree on Cousins. He has played up to his contract this season.

Honestly this topic probably should be broadened out into "future of the salary cap".

I suspect we are going to see some interest changes on defense this offseason. Some proven commodities (Rhodes) are likely to be asked to restructure or get cut outright. The performance of the defense has taken a step back this year, not a big one, but enough to warrant notice while the offense has more than carried the water. so the team is going to have to decide which mix of players gives them the best shot going forward. They are going to have to mix in young talent to stay competitive within the cap.

I think we'll see at least one of our CB depart. I can see Reiff as a candidate for cap casualty or restructure. He has been good, but not great, still they do not need more holes on the OL. For that matter, does Stefanski get offered a job and we lose our OC again?

Lots of different directions it could go, but probably too early to tell. It will be a fascinating offseason for sure.

One of the interesting steps backward I have noticed defensively has been Linval. The run defense honestly looks better with Johnson and Stephen out there, and I can't help but wonder if Linval has been playing with pain, or if he is simply aging. He doesn't have the comportment of a guy who is likely to be effective late. He has a high center of gravity and a fairly slight base for a guy his size. Once he starts losing athleticism, his decline as an effective football player might be precipitous.

[CharVike]

I hear you, man.

This is also a little different than the Jimmy Garoppolo situation. Jimmy G was a relatively unknown commodity who played for Eastern Illinois, which is Div. 1 Subdivision (formerly 1-AA). Compared to Brady, he was a nobody. You could sit him for 3 years, and nobody bats an eye. Meanwhile, Tua is a multiple-time Heisman candidate for the most high-profile (and arguably the best) college program in the nation at Alabama. A guy like Jimmy G was never going to come into the NFL and start right away. It could be argued that Tua would have been seen as a Day 1 starter had he not gotten hurt. It's tougher to make a guy like Tua sit for 2-3 years. What if he comes in and lights it up in practice, and you've already extended Kirk Cousins? It's a potentially explosive situation. Kirk could have a bad day, and you end up with a divided locker room.

By the way, I remember lobbying for the Vikings to draft Jimmy G. We took Teddy instead.

Jimmy G. is far from a proven commodity.

His stats are a bit bloated right now after playing AZ twice in 3 games and throwing for 8 TDs in those two games, but the guy throws a ton of picks, is inconsistent and is being carried by an elite defense and run game. In fact, 11 of his 18 TDs have come against the Bengals and AZ. He has thrown 7 TDs to 7 Ints in his other 8 games.

I will also add that the Patriots did not get good value out of Jimmy G. They gave up a 2nd to draft him, got a couple of solid starts out of him before he got injured, and then got a 2nd for him a couple years later.

They also lost value on Brisset, who they traded for basically nothing after drafting him in the 3rd.

Cassel is the one example where the Pats drafted a QB, and then traded him for better value than they gave up to draft him. To get that better value they needed Brady to go down for an entire season so Cassel could play, or it is very unlikely any team gives up anything for him.

Drafting and trading a QB who almost never sees the field in the regular season is incredibly rare, so unless the starter gets hurt, you are probably wasting a draft pick on a guy who you don't plan on grooming to take over for, or become the starter.

Jimmy G is far from a proven commodity but you say the Patriots did not get good value. They got a 2nd rounder back and got some playing time. What's wrong with that? I wish we could have our picks back for Teddy and Ponder. Basically the 49ers are the team that made the bad deal. He has missed some time as he did with the Pats and isn't really playing very good this year outside of playing great against bad teams. I still think QB should always be at the top of our board.

[S197]

We should never shy away from a QB because we already have our guy. QBs have great value. I have said this in other posts before Cousins great run that I feel he is the best since Fran. I still do. But I hope Speilman keeps his eyes open. I liked Drew Lock last year and we passed. I thought that was a huge mistake. The guy hasn't done anything yet but it's not over. He will need time. I really like this LSU kid. I did before the Bama game. Now he'll shoot up the board. He's still the same guy. 2nd to 3rd round talent not No 1 overall. But a team will take him early for fear of losing him. I don't blame them. But they better remember he will need time before he can play. With that if a kid with skill is there he better pull the trigger. Even if it's round one. QBs are too important. We should all know this by now.

It is a good idea in theory, but it is an idea rarely used in practice. If we extend Cousins, there is zero chance the Vikings sniff a QB earlier than round 4. If another Jackson falls to us in round 1, we won't take him. If another Wilson falls to us in round 3, no shot. We will have the 12th-16th best QB until his contract ends, and our GM will be happy with that. Not because it will help us win a SB, but because it helps him keep his job.

At this point, drafting a QB before the 7th round seems unlikely. This may sound like hyperbole until you look at the last decade of drafts. Sure we took Ponder and Bridgewater, because we literally had our backs against the wall. But someone to groom? Never happens. Rick will trade back 5 times a year to accumulate 10 picks and use absolutely zero of them on the most important position on the field. It’s truly mind boggling.

[CharVike]

It is a good idea in theory, but it is an idea rarely used in practice. If we extend Cousins, there is zero chance the Vikings sniff a QB earlier than round 4. If another Jackson falls to us in round 1, we won't take him. If another Wilson falls to us in round 3, no shot. We will have the 12th-16th best QB until his contract ends, and our GM will be happy with that. Not because it will help us win a SB, but because it helps him keep his job.

At this point, drafting a QB before the 7th round seems unlikely. This may sound like hyperbole until you look at the last decade of drafts. Sure we took Ponder and Bridgewater, because we literally had our backs against the wall. But someone to groom? Never happens. Rick will trade back 5 times a year to accumulate 10 picks and use absolutely zero of them on the most important position on the field. It’s truly mind boggling.

I agree with that. This accumulating a bunch of worthless picks is stupid. And you're probably right there will be no QB drafted.

[Raz]

IMHO they restructer and extend cousins on a more salary cap number for a few years. They see what they have with the kid on the practice squad, wasn't he projected to be good a couple years ago.
Most likely deal or lose Wayne's And draft a corner with the first pick.

[CharVike]

IMHO they restructer and extend cousins on a more salary cap number for a few years. They see what they have with the kid on the practice squad, wasn't he projected to be good a couple years ago.
Most likely deal or lose Wayne's And draft a corner with the first pick.

That's a good point you make about the practice squad guy Jake Browning. You never know. The restructure thing is also a good idea. Let's face it Cousins is a decent QB. Maybe our new O fits him. This next off season will be interesting. Supposedly the Skins have a great G that will be a FA but he could get 15 million a year. That's a high CAP deal for that position. I think we will get some CAP relief. Joesph either needs to take a tremendous drop in CAP or see ya later. He's out and it means nothing. Were almost better without him. Too much CAP for a non impact guy. Rhodes same thing. Just with those two we will have extra CAP. I think we will go CB or OL.

[VikingLord]

Looking for a later-round QB prospect with some potential?

Try James Morgan of Florida International. "Florida International" you say? Me too. Never heard of it.

Morgan clocks in at 6'4" and 213 pounds. He's had a pretty good junior campaign, and has followed that up with a decent senior effort as well.

If you watch his highlights (yes, he has some), you see a QB who flashes at times. What jumped out at me watching his highlights is he seems to see the field well, and he flashes a strong arm and fairly quick release. With the level of competition it's hard to tell what his ceiling is, but if we're talking speculating at QB in the mid to later rounds, not a bad guy to take a swing at.

[808vikingsfan]

IMHO they restructer and extend cousins on a more salary cap number for a few years. They see what they have with the kid on the practice squad, wasn't he projected to be good a couple years ago.
Most likely deal or lose Wayne's And draft a corner with the first pick.

That's a good point you make about the practice squad guy Jake Browning. You never know. The restructure thing is also a good idea. Let's face it Cousins is a decent QB. Maybe our new O fits him. This next off season will be interesting. Supposedly the Skins have a great G that will be a FA but he could get 15 million a year. That's a high CAP deal for that position. I think we will get some CAP relief. Joesph either needs to take a tremendous drop in CAP or see ya later. He's out and it means nothing. Were almost better without him. Too much CAP for a non impact guy. Rhodes same thing. Just with those two we will have extra CAP. I think we will go CB or OL.

A comment about being better without Joseph. Are the Vikings really better? Basing this on nothing but I'm thinking without the push from Joseph up the middle, and the double team he commands sometimes, QB's are able to step up more often, evading pressure from Griffen and Hunter which is putting more pressure on the secondary. Again, I have no proof. Just a guess.

[S197]

That's a good point you make about the practice squad guy Jake Browning. You never know. The restructure thing is also a good idea. Let's face it Cousins is a decent QB. Maybe our new O fits him. This next off season will be interesting. Supposedly the Skins have a great G that will be a FA but he could get 15 million a year. That's a high CAP deal for that position. I think we will get some CAP relief. Joesph either needs to take a tremendous drop in CAP or see ya later. He's out and it means nothing. Were almost better without him. Too much CAP for a non impact guy. Rhodes same thing. Just with those two we will have extra CAP. I think we will go CB or OL.

A comment about being better without Joseph. Are the Vikings really better? Basing this on nothing but I'm thinking without the push from Joseph up the middle, and the double team he commands sometimes, QB's are able to step up more often, evading pressure from Griffen and Hunter which is putting more pressure on the secondary. Again, I have no proof. Just a guess.

There wasn't a lot of drop off when Johnson played in his place against Dallas and Denver. From a rush defense prospective. He's not that integral to the pass rush is my guess as he's always replaced on 3rd and long by Weatherly, Odenigbo or one of the smaller DTs like Hercules.

It could be he was playing injured and that's the reason for the drop because he's definitely been dominant over his time here.

[StumpHunter]

A comment about being better without Joseph. Are the Vikings really better? Basing this on nothing but I'm thinking without the push from Joseph up the middle, and the double team he commands sometimes, QB's are able to step up more often, evading pressure from Griffen and Hunter which is putting more pressure on the secondary. Again, I have no proof. Just a guess.

There wasn't a lot of drop off when Johnson played in his place against Dallas and Denver. From a rush defense prospective. He's not that integral to the pass rush is my guess as he's always replaced on 3rd and long by Weatherly, Odenigbo or one of the smaller DTs like Hercules.

It could be he was playing injured and that's the reason for the drop because he's definitely been dominant over his time here.

It could also be that the Vikings are helping out the run D from the secondary and linebacker spot more with Joseph out. That would explain some of the issues we have seen in the secondary.

[CanUDiggsIt?]

Restructure & extend Cousins, wait a year, and draft Tanner Morgan out of Dinkytown.

[S197]

There wasn't a lot of drop off when Johnson played in his place against Dallas and Denver. From a rush defense prospective. He's not that integral to the pass rush is my guess as he's always replaced on 3rd and long by Weatherly, Odenigbo or one of the smaller DTs like Hercules.

It could be he was playing injured and that's the reason for the drop because he's definitely been dominant over his time here.

It could also be that the Vikings are helping out the run D from the secondary and linebacker spot more with Joseph out. That would explain some of the issues we have seen in the secondary.

That's a good point and certainly plausible

[CharVike]

Looking for a later-round QB prospect with some potential?

Try James Morgan of Florida International. "Florida International" you say? Me too. Never heard of it.

Morgan clocks in at 6'4" and 213 pounds. He's had a pretty good junior campaign, and has followed that up with a decent senior effort as well.

If you watch his highlights (yes, he has some), you see a QB who flashes at times. What jumped out at me watching his highlights is he seems to see the field well, and he flashes a strong arm and fairly quick release. With the level of competition it's hard to tell what his ceiling is, but if we're talking speculating at QB in the mid to later rounds, not a bad guy to take a swing at.

I looked at his highlights. He throws the ball very well. At least he has size and an arm. Much better physical skill set than the guy we have on the PS. That guy has no arm. I'm sure every team knows about him but it would be worth a late rounder.

[fiestavike]

There wasn't a lot of drop off when Johnson played in his place against Dallas and Denver. From a rush defense prospective. He's not that integral to the pass rush is my guess as he's always replaced on 3rd and long by Weatherly, Odenigbo or one of the smaller DTs like Hercules.

It could be he was playing injured and that's the reason for the drop because he's definitely been dominant over his time here.

It could also be that the Vikings are helping out the run D from the secondary and linebacker spot more with Joseph out. That would explain some of the issues we have seen in the secondary.

Could be a factor. Still, Linval has not held the point very well this year. I'm hoping he'll bounce back but his age and build make me worry a bit. Fortunately the vikings can save 10.5 of his 12.9 next year and 11.25 of his 12.5 the following year next year and his full 12.5 the year after that if its time to move on.

[CharVike]

It could also be that the Vikings are helping out the run D from the secondary and linebacker spot more with Joseph out. That would explain some of the issues we have seen in the secondary.

Could be a factor. Still, Linval has not held the point very well this year. I'm hoping he'll bounce back but his age and build make me worry a bit. Fortunately the vikings can save 10.5 of his 12.9 next year and 11.25 of his 12.5 the following year next year and his full 12.5 the year after that if its time to move on.

I think we struggled late last year against the run with him in there. I'm not saying he's a garbage player. But at his age I'm sure the team is worrying also. He was a good signing as he has proven. Maybe he's more of a part time guy teacher at this point in his career. If that's the case then his CAP is too high for that. Please don't take this as I think he's a bum. But time takes it's toll on all players. And it don't follow the same pattern.