Vikings trade for Vedvik

[PurpleMustReign]

I can't figure out how he only kicked 70 fgs in training camp. With that said, trading for this kicker/punter makes no sense. Wile was really good, especially in the second half, at punting last season. And he seemed to be a good holder. And can this new kicker not hold? Why are we using our likely #3 WR to hold kicks? Did Wile royally mess something up last season when he was holding?

No, no, no ... Wile wasn't a good holder. That's part of the problem. He'd never held before he got to the Vikings, and he reportedly had issues once he got here. I brought this up about five times last year, and I still contend it was a large part of Carlson's problem.

Wile also has a very difficult time directional kicking to his left. That's according to the coaching staff. It's a little like Bailey kicking from the right hash ... both are problems.

The 70 FGs is the number of live FG attempts, with the line blocking, people rushing, etc. Obviously he did more practice kicks than that. But special teamers are also offensive and defensive players, so the team can only dedicate a limited amount of time to full ST reps, especially considering they also have to fit punts and kickoffs into the allotted time. There's only 16 training camp practices. Not time for much more than 70 FG attempts.

One thing about Beebe holding ... if the Vikings ever wanted to run a fake, or if there was a bad snap that forced the holder to do something resembling a football play, Beebe would be much more athletic and equipped to do it than a typical punter. And honestly, what are the chances Beebe is going to get injured holding? I'm not sure I've ever seen a holder get hurt.

Admittedly, I tried to hide from much viking coverage after the season, so I must have missed that. But, they dang well better get this under control before the season starts. If they feel that Wile was so bad, they should have released him and replaced him a long time ago.

[CharVike]

No, no, no ... Wile wasn't a good holder. That's part of the problem. He'd never held before he got to the Vikings, and he reportedly had issues once he got here. I brought this up about five times last year, and I still contend it was a large part of Carlson's problem.

Wile also has a very difficult time directional kicking to his left. That's according to the coaching staff. It's a little like Bailey kicking from the right hash ... both are problems.

The 70 FGs is the number of live FG attempts, with the line blocking, people rushing, etc. Obviously he did more practice kicks than that. But special teamers are also offensive and defensive players, so the team can only dedicate a limited amount of time to full ST reps, especially considering they also have to fit punts and kickoffs into the allotted time. There's only 16 training camp practices. Not time for much more than 70 FG attempts.

One thing about Beebe holding ... if the Vikings ever wanted to run a fake, or if there was a bad snap that forced the holder to do something resembling a football play, Beebe would be much more athletic and equipped to do it than a typical punter. And honestly, what are the chances Beebe is going to get injured holding? I'm not sure I've ever seen a holder get hurt.

Admittedly, I tried to hide from much viking coverage after the season, so I must have missed that. But, they dang well better get this under control before the season starts. If they feel that Wile was so bad, they should have released him and replaced him a long time ago.

You are correct. If the guy can't hold why was he asked to do it? I agree also if he sucked that bad why would they wait this long? Vedvik isn't a holder either. So they still don't have a holder. Beebe is our no 3 WR and has injury problems. Not sure if you want that as your holder. He gets hurt during the game then??? forget it. Now a botched hold will cost us a game. It's already playing out like that. Imagine 3rd down Beebe catches a pass and gets wracked and he needs a breather. We can't kick the FG at that point.

[CharVike]

Admittedly, I tried to hide from much viking coverage after the season, so I must have missed that. But, they dang well better get this under control before the season starts. If they feel that Wile was so bad, they should have released him and replaced him a long time ago.

You are correct. If the guy can't hold why was he asked to do it? I agree also if he sucked that bad why would they wait this long? Vedvik isn't a holder either. So they still don't have a holder. Beebe is our no 3 WR and has injury problems. Not sure if you want that as your holder. He gets hurt during the game then??? forget it. Now a botched hold will cost us a game. It's already playing out like that. Imagine 3rd down Beebe catches a pass and gets wracked and he needs a breather. We can't kick the FG at that point.

Here's a good one from Zim. “You’ve got a rookie snapper, and then you’d have a rookie kicker and rookie punter. Then you’d have to find somebody to hold.’’ I didn't know we had a rookie kicker or punter. Did they sign another guy? He'll say he was acting.

[StumpHunter]

Admittedly, I tried to hide from much viking coverage after the season, so I must have missed that. But, they dang well better get this under control before the season starts. If they feel that Wile was so bad, they should have released him and replaced him a long time ago.

You are correct. If the guy can't hold why was he asked to do it? I agree also if he sucked that bad why would they wait this long?

He was asked to do it because he wasn't really the problem.

[S197]

Exactly. There’s a reason why very few holders are WRs. I’m really hoping they’re trying him out as an emergency holder, making him primary just seems really poorly thought out.

Here's a question.

Let's say they make Vedvik the punter and long field goal kicker, and let Wile go. As the punter, Vedvik becomes the regular holder.

If they want to try a very long field goal, who holds?

I guess it would be Beebe?

Could be. Or the two kickers hold for each other.

[J. Kapp 11]

You are correct. If the guy can't hold why was he asked to do it? I agree also if he sucked that bad why would they wait this long?

He was asked to do it because he wasn't really the problem.

Do you EVER back up anything you say with facts?

Minnesota punter Matt Wile has been handing the duties as the holder on field goal and extra point attempts this year and Priefer mentioned that this is really Wile’s first season with these responsibilities.

“I don’t know if he’s ever really been taught how to hold. He has, at times, struggled with it. But he is really starting to come along and Dan (Bailey) is starting to trust him a lot more.”

https://thevikingage.com/2018/12/07/pri ... s-kicking/


Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer commented on the field goal unit after the team acquired Vedvik on Sunday.

“We’ve been having problems with the holding,” said Zimmer. “So I think that’s a little bit of an issue there. I like Dan Bailey a lot… And so, we just have to figure [the holding] out.”

Matt Wile took over holding duties last season. With Wile as the holder, Bailey made 75% of his field goals last year, tying a career low. So, do Zimmer’s comments and Bailey’s sudden improvement with a new holder mean Wile is on the way out?

https://vikingsterritory.com/2019/gener ... he-kitchen


There are more sources, but I'm sure you won't bother. Because who needs sources when you already know everything?

[StumpHunter]

He was asked to do it because he wasn't really the problem.

Do you EVER back up anything you say with facts?

Minnesota punter Matt Wile has been handing the duties as the holder on field goal and extra point attempts this year and Priefer mentioned that this is really Wile’s first season with these responsibilities.

“I don’t know if he’s ever really been taught how to hold. He has, at times, struggled with it. But he is really starting to come along and Dan (Bailey) is starting to trust him a lot more.”

https://thevikingage.com/2018/12/07/pri ... s-kicking/


Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer commented on the field goal unit after the team acquired Vedvik on Sunday.

“We’ve been having problems with the holding,” said Zimmer. “So I think that’s a little bit of an issue there. I like Dan Bailey a lot… And so, we just have to figure [the holding] out.”

Matt Wile took over holding duties last season. With Wile as the holder, Bailey made 75% of his field goals last year, tying a career low. So, do Zimmer’s comments and Bailey’s sudden improvement with a new holder mean Wile is on the way out?

https://vikingsterritory.com/2019/gener ... he-kitchen


There are more sources, but I'm sure you won't bother. Because who needs sources when you already know everything?

My sources are what the team has actually done versus what they are saying to the media. They did not bring in Ved to replace Wile as the holder, he hasn't held once in camp that I am aware of. They brought him in to replace Bailey. Whether he starts out as the punter waiting in the wings for Bailey to screw up, or beats him out from the start, the Vikings spent a 5th on him because they were worried about the kicker. Not the holder, the kicker.

My sources are also the fact that Bailey has struggled no matter who has held all camp.

Wile is a convenient goat who is easily replaced. He is not the actual problem, the kicker is.

[J. Kapp 11]

Do you EVER back up anything you say with facts?



https://thevikingage.com/2018/12/07/pri ... s-kicking/


Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer commented on the field goal unit after the team acquired Vedvik on Sunday.


https://vikingsterritory.com/2019/gener ... he-kitchen


There are more sources, but I'm sure you won't bother. Because who needs sources when you already know everything?

My sources are what the team has actually done versus what they are saying to the media. They did not bring in Ved to replace Wile as the holder, he hasn't held once in camp that I am aware of. They brought him in to replace Bailey. Whether he starts out as the punter waiting in the wings for Bailey to screw up, or beats him out from the start, the Vikings spent a 5th on him because they were worried about the kicker. Not the holder, the kicker.

My sources are also the fact that Bailey has struggled no matter who has held all camp.

Wile is a convenient goat who is easily replaced. He is not the actual problem, the kicker is.

In other words, your sources are your opinion. AKA nothing.

Thanks for clarifying.

[StumpHunter]

My sources are what the team has actually done versus what they are saying to the media. They did not bring in Ved to replace Wile as the holder, he hasn't held once in camp that I am aware of. They brought him in to replace Bailey. Whether he starts out as the punter waiting in the wings for Bailey to screw up, or beats him out from the start, the Vikings spent a 5th on him because they were worried about the kicker. Not the holder, the kicker.

My sources are also the fact that Bailey has struggled no matter who has held all camp.

Wile is a convenient goat who is easily replaced. He is not the actual problem, the kicker is.

In other words, your sources are your opinion. AKA nothing.

Thanks for clarifying.

Opinion based on facts and logic.

The holder might not have been perfect last year, but it is clear that the coaching staff does not feel any problems holding were the main issue.

It is my opinion, and the likely the GM's who traded a 5th for a kicker's opinion, that the kicker was the main issue.

[J. Kapp 11]

In other words, your sources are your opinion. AKA nothing.

Thanks for clarifying.

Opinion based on facts and logic.

The holder might not have been perfect last year, but it is clear that the coaching staff does not feel any problems holding were the main issue.

Let's run this back.

I give you quotes from Mike Priefer last year and Mike Zimmer this year that holding was a problem then and remains a problem now. Last I checked, they were and are, in fact, part of the coaching staff. I'll go out on a really long limb and say they're fairly important parts of the coaching staff. In fact, they're the two coaches who are most likely to know the truth.

Meanwhile, here's your brilliant reply: "It is clear that the coaching staff does not feel any problems holding were the main issue." That comment is so far from fact and logic that you couldn't find either with the Hubble telescope.

I'd tell you what's "clear," but I'd probably get banned, so I won't. You figure it out.

[Purple Martin]

Not to change the subject, but I hope we get to see Vedvik kick some FGs next week. I'm hopeful he can be the answer to our long term kicking problems. I was disappointed when they trotted out Bailey last night. I think Bailey's problems can be summed up in 2 words: Dan Bailey. He had them before he ever came to MN. The bottom dropped out of his FG rate in 2016 and his formerly perfect extra points started dropping the next year. This is a kicker in his 4th straight year of decline.

[VikingsVictorious]

Admittedly, I tried to hide from much viking coverage after the season, so I must have missed that. But, they dang well better get this under control before the season starts. If they feel that Wile was so bad, they should have released him and replaced him a long time ago.

You are correct. If the guy can't hold why was he asked to do it? I agree also if he sucked that bad why would they wait this long? Vedvik isn't a holder either. So they still don't have a holder. Beebe is our no 3 WR and has injury problems. Not sure if you want that as your holder. He gets hurt during the game then??? forget it. Now a botched hold will cost us a game. It's already playing out like that. Imagine 3rd down Beebe catches a pass and gets wracked and he needs a breather. We can't kick the FG at that point.

There will be a backup holder. I thought Vedvik had experience as a holder. Clearly a great athlete so he will have no problem learning if called upon.

[StumpHunter]

Opinion based on facts and logic.

The holder might not have been perfect last year, but it is clear that the coaching staff does not feel any problems holding were the main issue.

Let's run this back.

I give you quotes from Mike Priefer last year and Mike Zimmer this year that holding was a problem then and remains a problem now. Last I checked, they were and are, in fact, part of the coaching staff. I'll go out on a really long limb and say they're fairly important parts of the coaching staff. In fact, they're the two coaches who are most likely to know the truth.

Meanwhile, here's your brilliant reply: "It is clear that the coaching staff does not feel any problems holding were the main issue." That comment is so far from fact and logic that you couldn't find either with the Hubble telescope.

I'd tell you what's "clear," but I'd probably get banned, so I won't. You figure it out.

You gave me a quote of the ST’s coach saying Wile was brand new to holding, which he was, and struggled at times (which times? During preseason? During camp? During practice?), but that Wile improved and Bailey was trusting him more. Damning for sure.

You gave me a quote from the end of a camp where the Vikings had used multiple holders and after they traded for Vedvik of Zimmer saying they had had trouble with holding. So Zim says they are struggling with holding (which includes Wile, Beebe, Manion and whoever else they trotted out there) after trading for a guy who they aren’t going to use to hold. A guy who they traded for because they are worried about their current kicker, not holder, but kicker. It is almost like you need to take everything coaches say with a grain of salt, and that they say what they think the team needs to hear, not necessarily what is the most useful information to the fans.

I gave you the FACT that the Bailey has struggled from the right hash no matter who was the holder. That the Vikings didn’t cut Wile when Carlson struggled, they cut Carlson. That the Vikings traded a 5th for a guy to compete for the KICKING job, not the holder spot.

The Vikings are trying out a new holder so they must think there is the possibility that Wile was part of the problem last year, but Wile might be a bad holder or it might be them just trying an easy solution of replacing a holder before they take on the very difficult problem of replacing the kicker. So far, the evidence says changing the holder has done nothing, but I am sure a guy who hit 75% of his FGs last year with Wile, in 2017 without Wile, and hitting 75% of his FGs in camp with a variety of holders this year, is just a coincidence.

[J. Kapp 11]

Let's run this back.

I give you quotes from Mike Priefer last year and Mike Zimmer this year that holding was a problem then and remains a problem now. Last I checked, they were and are, in fact, part of the coaching staff. I'll go out on a really long limb and say they're fairly important parts of the coaching staff. In fact, they're the two coaches who are most likely to know the truth.

Meanwhile, here's your brilliant reply: "It is clear that the coaching staff does not feel any problems holding were the main issue." That comment is so far from fact and logic that you couldn't find either with the Hubble telescope.

I'd tell you what's "clear," but I'd probably get banned, so I won't. You figure it out.

You gave me a quote of the ST’s coach saying Wile was brand new to holding, which he was, and struggled at times (which times? During preseason? During camp? During practice?), but that Wile improved and Bailey was trusting him more. Damning for sure.

You gave me a quote from the end of a camp where the Vikings had used multiple holders and after they traded for Vedvik of Zimmer saying they had had trouble with holding. So Zim says they are struggling with holding (which includes Wile, Beebe, Manion and whoever else they trotted out there) after trading for a guy who they aren’t going to use to hold. A guy who they traded for because they are worried about their current kicker, not holder, but kicker. It is almost like you need to take everything coaches say with a grain of salt, and that they say what they think the team needs to hear, not necessarily what is the most useful information to the fans.

I gave you the FACT that the Bailey has struggled from the right hash no matter who was the holder. That the Vikings didn’t cut Wile when Carlson struggled, they cut Carlson. That the Vikings traded a 5th for a guy to compete for the KICKING job, not the holder spot.

The Vikings are trying out a new holder so they must think there is the possibility that Wile was part of the problem last year, but Wile might be a bad holder or it might be them just trying an easy solution of replacing a holder before they take on the very difficult problem of replacing the kicker. So far, the evidence says changing the holder has done nothing, but I am sure a guy who hit 75% of his FGs last year with Wile, in 2017 without Wile, and hitting 75% of his FGs in camp with a variety of holders this year, is just a coincidence.

Quit digging the hole, dude. You're gonna hit China pretty soon.

I gave a quote from last year to show that the problem existed last year.

I gave a quote from this year to show that the problem still exists.

This is what most people call responsible posting. See what I did there? I backed my opinion by presenting evidence as given by, you know, actual experts. Sorry to break it to you, but you are not an expert, so if it's all the same to you, I'll go with Priefer and Zimmer.

Contrast that approach to yours. You have given ... your opinion. Your observation. Your belief. And you've backed it with ... more of your opinions. The only fact you've given is that Bailey has hit 75% in camp with a VARIETY of holders. Thank you for proving that the holder matters.

Also, how many kicks has Bailey missed in preseason games so far? Go ahead. I know the answer, but I'll wait for you to look it up. Let me know if you don't know how to do that. I'm happy to help.

[Purple Martin]

I'm confused. How does the fact that Bailey has hit 75% in camp with a VARIETY of holders prove that the holder matters? I need a head-scratching emo here. Doesn't sucking with a variety of holders only prove that the kicker sucks?