Vikings Message Board.Com

Dear God nobody wants that, Jim. They'd have to make an extra month for you (Febtober?) then "accidentally" leave it off the calendar. No offense. You probably look striking in a purple-and-gold skirt.

I can commiserate though. I disliked the TJ pick from the start and was looking for a fast way out the door, even though I liked him personally and he eventually carved out a nice role as a backup.

The more I think about it, the more I think not only is Teddy's personality infectious, but I think it's been awhile since we've had a QB that's been good when under pressure. It feels like that's such an important trait in a QB. Maybe we see that as one of the biggest differentiators in QBs we've had in the last decade. That and we so badly want a "franchise quarterback" it's nuts. It's like our fandom deserves it.

Of course for every quote from coaches on things Teddy needs to work on there are quotes praising some of his characteristics and play, too.

He's not perfect and may be one of those Dalton-esque QBs that need a talented cast around him (most QBs do). I, for one, hope he gets more help especially in pass protection so we can see what he's capable of becoming. Last season didn't do him any favors. Want to stunt a young QB's growth? Give him a bunch of deep drops behind a bunch of backups and players playing out of position.

I think we can all agree we just want to see improvement in the offense. As much as possible.

dead_poet wrote:Dear God nobody wants that, Jim. They'd have to make an extra month for you (Febtober?) then "accidentally" leave it off the calendar. No offense. You probably look striking in a purple-and-gold skirt.

I do. You've intervened too late. I'm already on the squad and "in uniform" (try to get that picture out of your head!).

I can commiserate though. I disliked the TJ pick from the start and was looking for a fast way out the door, even though I liked him personally and he eventually carved out a nice role as a backup.

The more I think about it, the more I think not only is Teddy's personality infectious, but I think it's been awhile since we've had a QB that's been good when under pressure. It feels like that's such an important trait in a QB. Maybe we see that as one of the biggest differentiators in QBs we've had in the last decade. That and we so badly want a "franchise quarterback" it's nuts. It's like our fandom deserves it.

Of course for every quote from coaches on things Teddy needs to work on there are quotes praising some of his characteristics and play, too.

I thought I included a comment to that effect but I re-phrased that post several times so maybe I deleted the comment.

He's been praiseworthy at times and he has plenty of potential. I'm not even looking for a way out when out the door when it comes to Bridgewater. I'm just frustrated by his lack of growth from year one to year two, concerned about whether he will actually achieve his potential or not and I really want a good Plan B. It all seems pretty reasonable to me but hey, I'm just a crotchety, cynical SOB who wants to harsh everybody's buzz...

Mothman wrote:I resent being characterized as cynical about this, as if my views have no foundation and are borne out of past disappoints rather than actual, careful observation. I'm not crying "wolf" on this subject. I've done the legwork.

I wasn't just talking about you, Mothman, but you're definitely included. It's fine that you think you aren't cynical but here are a couple examples from past Teddy threads:

Mothman wrote:I think Cosell is being generous in suggesting Bridgewater's only real weakness is his arm strength but he's right about the strengths. I'm inclined to say Bridgewater is a "low ceiling" NFL QB, not a "high-ceiling" player, but time will tell.

Mothman wrote:Bridgewater has also acknowledged that he needs to be aggressive next year but a change in mindset like that might be very difficult for a QB who clearly prefers to make the safe throw.

All of it speculative but definitely skeptical and cynical.

And when someone uses statistics to compare Teddy to decent QBs in the league past or present, you tend to be very quick to try to poke holes but comparing Teddy to Ponder and TJack are fair game.

Yeah, I know that the coaches have said that Teddy needs to improve in some areas of his game. They've also said plenty of praises as well. I already pointed out that critical articles get posted quickly by you (including random articles from the San Francisco Chronicle) while the positive ones are often posted by others.

Mothman wrote:Sigh... I'm probably wasting my time even posting this.

I'm not sure what this means here. Sounds like you may think you're wasting your time or you're tired of making the same point over and over again - but it's aggravating over here, too.

Would I just be allowed to start my own optimism thread about the team? My perspective is - so many times last year I was so pumped for our team after a victory and I would pop on VMB afterwards only to find a majority of the discussion being (paraphrased of course) "yeah, but Teddy sucks". And when I don't live in MN where I can easily talk about Vikings football, this is the only place I can go and it's a major bummer (salute) because I honestly can't find a place where people are excited for our winning football team. That's why I am critical of a mod being IMO quite biased against Teddy and fueling that negative fire.

Mothman wrote:
Look at the results. Look at the film. Look at what Bridgewater's coaches have been saying. I've been saying Bridgewater needs to play better, refine his mechanics, that he needs to take charge and play more aggressively. These are all things his head coach says as well.

There's no shortage of reporters and analysts who have said he needs to pull the trigger, be more aggressive, play better, etc, either. I'm hardly alone in my views and I haven't said he can't get better, only that he needs to get better. That doesn't mean he's not an "up and coming" QB. Just that he has a lot more developing to do. We can talk about the QB we think he can become or the QB he's been so far but they aren't the same thing.

I don't disagree with any of those criticisms, (I've never contended Bridgewater doesn't have lots of things to improve on) but they don't negate the aspects which you can also see on film that are very impressive. It seems to me they they overshadow everything else in your view, and I think you blow them way out of proportion. Given our past discussions, I'm pretty certain that this evaluation is heavily based on production, or stats. Teddy is a larva, a joke, a neophyte who is miles away from being a good QB. He's not even close, its ludicrous and ridiculous to even suggest he could be an elite QB. Can't we take a step back from the "turf" we've staked out and do a little walking and chewing gum at the same time?

I feel like I'm stuck on an episode of First Take and can't get out. ...Flipping back to the Twighlight Zone...

fiestavike wrote: I don't disagree with any of those criticisms, (I've never contended Bridgewater doesn't have lots of things to improve on) but they don't negate the aspects which you can also see on film that are very impressive. It seems to me they they overshadow everything else in your view, and I think you blow them way out of proportion. Given our past discussions, I'm pretty certain that this evaluation is heavily based on production, or stats. Teddy is a larva, a joke, a neophyte who is miles away from being a good QB. He's not even close, its ludicrous and ridiculous to even suggest he could be an elite QB. Can't we take a step back from the "turf" we've staked out and do a little walking and chewing gum at the same time?

I feel like I'm stuck on an episode of First Take and can't get out. ...Flipping back to the Twighlight Zone...

Your aversion to tangible production is alarming.

I dont think anyone is trying to be biased against Bridgewater, but he clearly does have several parts of his game he needs to improve for him to ever reach his potential.

As far as his ceiling goes? Well, idk, I have been a big Bridgewater fan since Louisville, but Idk if he has the top end strength in his arm to ever be 'Elite'.

I've always thought he could be a damn good, pro bowl level player though.

Once Teddy starts hitting Treadwell on the short routes, he's going to gain confidence.

He's never going to be a deep ball Qb. Hes never going to be Rogers, or Brady. But he can string together some 250 yard games together now. The Oline is still a mess, its going to take a lot of time to fix it, or to even know who can play.

Teddy also has a knack for winning the close games, in the end. Its too bad we have Choke for a kicker.

TSonn wrote: I wasn't just talking about you, Mothman, but you're definitely included. It's fine that you think you aren't cynical but here are a couple examples from past Teddy threads:

Please note the part I just highlighted in that quote.

All of it speculative but definitely skeptical and cynical.

And when someone uses statistics to compare Teddy to decent QBs in the league past or present, you tend to be very quick to try to poke holes but comparing Teddy to Ponder and TJack are fair game.

So are rebuttals to such comparisons.

Yeah, I know that the coaches have said that Teddy needs to improve in some areas of his game. They've also said plenty of praises as well. I already pointed out that critical articles get posted quickly by you (including random articles from the San Francisco Chronicle) while the positive ones are often posted by others.

... and I've pointed out that's a false impression. I've posted links to many articles about Bridgewater, positive and negative. I read and am interested in both.

I'm not sure what this means here. Sounds like you may think you're wasting your time or you're tired of making the same point over and over again - but it's aggravating over here, too.

Would I just be allowed to start my own optimism thread about the team? My perspective is - so many times last year I was so pumped for our team after a victory and I would pop on VMB afterwards only to find a majority of the discussion being (paraphrased of course) "yeah, but Teddy sucks". And when I don't live in MN where I can easily talk about Vikings football, this is the only place I can go and it's a major bummer (salute) because I honestly can't find a place where people are excited for our winning football team. That's why I am critical of a mod being IMO quite biased against Teddy and fueling that negative fire.

This isn't a place meant exclusively for positive talk about the Vikings. It's a place to talk about the Vikings. Everyone here is allowed to have and express opinions about the team, it's coaches and players, whether positive or negative. When it comes to Bridgewater, you only seem to want one viewpoint.

If you want to start a thread that's exclusively intended for optimistic comments about Bridgewater, go ahead. That's fine.

fiestavike wrote:I don't disagree with any of those criticisms, (I've never contended Bridgewater doesn't have lots of things to improve on) but they don't negate the aspects which you can also see on film that are very impressive. It seems to me they they overshadow everything else in your view, and I think you blow them way out of proportion. Given our past discussions, I'm pretty certain that this evaluation is heavily based on production, or stats.

It's based on performance, which is the only thing it can possibly be based upon.

Mothman wrote: It's based on performance, which is the only thing it can possibly be based upon.

We have totally different views of his performance.

fiestavike wrote:We have totally different views of his performance.

That's been obvious for a long, long time.

Heck, at this point, I'd say we have totally different views about football.

Mothman wrote: That's been obvious for a long, long time.

At least we finally agreed what it should be based on.
I'll call that progress.

fiestavike wrote: At least we finally agreed what it should be based on.
I'll call that progress.

I've said the same thing all along!

Mothman wrote:
I've said the same thing all along!

Me too!
That's what makes it all so frustrating.

Jordysghost wrote: Your aversion to tangible production is alarming.

We can discuss this in messages so Jim's head doesn't explode.