Vikings OL and GM discussion

[jackal]

Moving forward I would say I have a few reasons for the moves I would make if it were my call to improve our OL


LT My first choice would be to pick up a FA at this spot for next season. LT are hard to come by and I don't believe
Kalil has earned the ability to keep his job. My next choice would be to offer Kalil an offer with few quarantees
and heavily based on incentives for great play and achievements. I am assuming Kalil might not take this deal
I would try and fill the LT through the draft.

LG this would be my drop priority in this years draft. I would tray and get Whitehair or one of the other
four top guys Alexander, Turner, Garnett, Westerman in the first two rounds.

Center I would stick with Sullivan and try and draft a guy in 4th round or so to train up if the I didn't
feel Eastman (player we traded from SF for)

RG Fusco would move back to his spot and Harris would compete for back up
i.e. if one of the top OG slipped to third round I would draft him in that round.
Yes I would consider drafting OL in first three rounds of this draft.

RT Loadholt if I could work a mutually benefit deal. He worked hard the last few years
and suffered a crappy injury right before the season started. Second option would be
Clemmings/ Sirles or ???

I would try and train Shepard as Jumbo Goal line specialist in our offense with hopefully
TE abilities if he has enough ability. He seems to have great run blocking push for this job.

Every other Backup would have to earn his spot on the roster and I would place a high premium
on being able to place multiple spots like Berger.

[fiestavike]

I wasn't suggesting they would cut Loadholt and sign both a free agent tackle and a free agent guard (unless that was Harris at a pretty reasonable price). I also wasn't making a prediction or even speaking to probable outcomes so what constitutes a "Rick move" wasn't been a part of my thinking above. I was literally just speaking to the arguments for keeping or moving on from Loadholt since you and mansquatch were discussing why there was interest in replacing him.

To me, the most "Rick move" imaginable here (and the one I half expect to see) would be to stand pat with Loadholt, Sullivan, Fusco and Kalil, re-sign Harris to a contract that belies the adequate nature of his contribution and then ignore OL in free agency and wait until round 4 or beyond to address it in the draft... again.

Ugh! That would be a kick in the gut. I kind of imagine that the Rick thing to do will be to get Loadholt and Sullivan and Kalil to take team friendly deals, then flood the position with low level free agents and late round draft picks to see who sticks.

Basically, that's what you suggested I guess....but with a litle more cap room

[fiestavike]

Here's why Loadholt should be replaced:

He's due almost $8 million in this final year of his contract and yet he's missed the Vikings last 22 games. Can he be counted on going forward? Can he return and play at the level he did before missing all of that time? It's impossible to say but if a younger option with a better injury history is available in free agency (perhaps Mitchell Schwartz?) and at a similar price, the Vikings could lock up the position for the next 4+ years by signing that player instead of going with a player for 2015 that may or may not hold up and having to address the right tackle position next year (by either re-signing Loadholt at 31 or moving on to another player).

They could obviously draft a tackle too and there are plenty of good reasons to do that.

Here's why Loadholt shouldn't be replaced:

When healthy, he's a powerful run blocker, a good presence in the locker room and an above average RT. Offensive linemen can play effectively well into their 30s so it's possible Loadholt could sill be a solid starting right tackle for the Vikings for another 4-5 years.

Take your pick...

Those are good and fair arguments on each side. the only one I would add is that its difficult to know for sure how the guys will recover from their injuries and by the time we know, the vikings will be financially committed to those players, and done with the draft and free agency. There won't be any backup plan at that point that isn't already in house. That's the single biggest reason I'm inclined to move on. Deeply discounted contracts would assuage my concerns too.

[fiestavike]

This is interesting on Twitter

Hearing serious rumblings that both Mike Wallace and Matt Kalil are going to be released...stay tuned
1:32 PM - 18 Feb 2016

https://mobile.twitter.com/Luke_Spinman ... 9621927937

http://vikingsjournal.com/articles.html ... dholt-r969

http://nfltraderumors.co/142733-2/

I've gotta believe Sparano has been through every minute of tape from last season by now, and I wouldn't be shocked if there is a guy or two he just knows isn't going to work for him. Kalil might be one of those guys. TJ Clemmings might be another!

[dead_poet]

I've gotta believe Sparano has been through every minute of tape from last season by now, and I wouldn't be shocked if there is a guy or two he just knows isn't going to work for him. Kalil might be one of those guys. TJ Clemmings might be another!

They aren't giving up on/cutting Clemmings after one year. If they cut Kalil I hope Rick has a damn good plan on replacing him. It'd either be through a bidding war for the best FA left tackle or forced to take a R1-2 rookie (probably "reaching" to do so). If Kalil's 2015 was a repeat of 2013-2014 I wouldn't have as much of an issue with moving on but he looked serviceable in the majority of games last season and I was hoping we wouldn't have to be in holy crap mode for LT as we are at LG and possibly others. I really want it to be FA now and the draft. The waiting and speculation is already killing me and I'm not even the guy being targeted by opposing 300-pound guys.

[halfgiz]

I've gotta believe Sparano has been through every minute of tape from last season by now, and I wouldn't be shocked if there is a guy or two he just knows isn't going to work for him. Kalil might be one of those guys. TJ Clemmings might be another!

I think unless Kalil makes a deal for less money he is done.
Cutting Kalil would create an obvious roster need at left tackle, free agents such as Russell Okung, Kelvin Beachum, Cordy Glenn and Kelechi Osemele could make sense for the Vikings.
Pick up a OT in first round then.
I look for them to give TJ Clemming another season to mature .

[mondry]

This is interesting on Twitter

Hearing serious rumblings that both Mike Wallace and Matt Kalil are going to be released...stay tuned
1:32 PM - 18 Feb 2016

https://mobile.twitter.com/Luke_Spinman ... 9621927937

http://vikingsjournal.com/articles.html ... dholt-r969

http://nfltraderumors.co/142733-2/

Not surprised, it just makes way too much sense, happy to hear this.

[PurpleMustReign]

They aren't giving up on/cutting Clemmings after one year. If they cut Kalil I hope Rick has a damn good plan on replacing him. It'd either be through a bidding war for the best FA left tackle or forced to take a R1-2 rookie (probably "reaching" to do so). If Kalil's 2015 was a repeat of 2013-2014 I wouldn't have as much of an issue with moving on but he looked serviceable in the majority of games last season and I was hoping we wouldn't have to be in holy crap mode for LT as we are at LG and possibly others. I really want it to be FA now and the draft. The waiting and speculation is already killing me and I'm not even the guy being targeted by opposing 300-pound guys.

I wonder if Kalil's knees are worse than what we know. He seemed much better t the beginning of the season tham he did at the end.

Cold is temporary. Purple Pride is forever.

[dead_poet]

I wonder if Kalil's knees are worse than what we know. He seemed much better t the beginning of the season tham he did at the end.

He was dealing with a toe injury the last few games.

[fiestavike]

They aren't giving up on/cutting Clemmings after one year. If they cut Kalil I hope Rick has a damn good plan on replacing him. It'd either be through a bidding war for the best FA left tackle or forced to take a R1-2 rookie (probably "reaching" to do so). If Kalil's 2015 was a repeat of 2013-2014 I wouldn't have as much of an issue with moving on but he looked serviceable in the majority of games last season and I was hoping we wouldn't have to be in holy crap mode for LT as we are at LG and possibly others. I really want it to be FA now and the draft. The waiting and speculation is already killing me and I'm not even the guy being targeted by opposing 300-pound guys.

I wouldn't be too certain of that. What was he a fourth round pick? lots of guys drafted at that point don't even get to the season opener. Add in that he played dreadfully and we have a new line coach, and he's not a financial consideration. I won't be shocked if he doesn'tt make the team.

Just out of curiosity, on a scale of 1-10, how would you rank the Vikings 2015 offensive line as a unit?

[dead_poet]

I wouldn't be too certain of that. What was he a fourth round pick? lots of guys drafted at that point don't even get to the season opener. Add in that he played dreadfully and we have a new line coach, and he's not a financial consideration. I won't be shocked if he doesn'tt make the team.

No, I'm pretty certain of this. How often do teams give up on guys after only one year (especially drafted guys. Especially guys drafted in the mid-rounds). It's exceedingly rare. If guys like Chris DeGeare and David Yankey get 2-3 years as fifth-year draft selections, Clemmings will as well. Not to mention their depth at offensive tackle isn't all that great and Clemmings was known to be raw coming out.

Just out of curiosity, on a scale of 1-10, how would you rank the Vikings 2015 offensive line as a unit?

As a unit they probably played at about a 4 with flashes of 6 and 3.

[dead_poet]

I think unless Kalil makes a deal for less money he is done.

I suspect this is the case if they can't lower his 2016 cap hit via an extension, but it wouldn't necessarily have to be at a straight pay cut. It could be a modest extension where Kalil makes up that $11 million over the course of a couple of seasons, potentially more depending on the structure and built-in incentives.

Cutting Kalil would create an obvious roster need at left tackle, free agents such as Russell Okung, Kelvin Beachum, Cordy Glenn and Kelechi Osemele could make sense for the Vikings.
Pick up a OT in first round then.

I hate, hate, HATE being forced into taking any player. Sometimes that could work out in their favor, but only if they get exceedingly lucky. Look what happened in the 2011 draft. They needed a quarterback. They ended up taking Ponder WAY early (even at the time). And that was a historical draft class. By being forced to take Ponder they didn't take guys like: Robert Quinn, MIke Pouncey, Nate Solder, Ryan Kerrigan, Cameron Jordan, etc.

And say we go this route, you're taking a huge risk hoping that whatever OT you take can be plopped in and be better than Kalil's 2015 as a rookie. This draft class isn't exactly deep with guys that can play left tackle and be an asset right out of the gate. Aside from Tunsil or Stanley (who will likely be long gone) I'm not sure I'd be confident in plugging in anyone else (and even those two might struggle). So now you're hoping a guy like Taylor Decker, Jason Spriggs or Jack Conklin can be an immediate upgrade as Teddy's starting blindside protector. Not to mention those three are seen by many as second round picks.

[mansquatch]

I hope they are careful on this. They have a lot of high quality defensive players who will need contracts in the coming 2 years. If they load up at OL AP is functionally gone after 2016 which means the entire offense will rest on TB's shoulders. Not sure I'm ready for that. To be honest I'd rather have them blow their wad on defense than OL. OL needs help, but if they blow a ton of cash on it, they are gambling on a SB window which means we could see a 2010-2011 type collapse when the contracts need to be jettisoned. If those rumblings are true it might mean they are going to go for broke for 2016. That seems risky to me.

[fiestavike]

As a unit they probably played at about a 4 with flashes of 6 and 3.

That's pretty fair. I'd have them ranked a bit worse, but that probably accounts for a bit of our different perspectives on the issue.

[fiestavike]

No, I'm pretty certain of this. How often do teams give up on guys after only one year (especially drafted guys. Especially guys drafted in the mid-rounds). It's exceedingly rare. If guys like Chris DeGeare and David Yankey get 2-3 years as fifth-year draft selections, Clemmings will as well. Not to mention their depth at offensive tackle isn't all that great and Clemmings was known to be raw coming out.

It will just depend on who they add and how many they carry. Suppose they keep Kalil, Fusco, Berger, Sullivan, Harris, and Loadholt. Suppose they add 1 guy in FA and 1 guy in the draft. They're probably up to 8 guys on that unit already. Are we sure Clemmings beats out Sirles, Easton, Bykowski, etc? I don't think its a forgone conclusion that he make the squad. I'm not predicting he won't but I won't be surprised if he doesn't.

Does he have practice squad eligibility left since he started all last season. I'm pretty sure that's the only way DeGeare and Yankey got 2-3 years "on the team".