DKSweets wrote:McKinnie isn't a player we should be upset about losing. He was lazy and contributed heavily to almost getting Favre killed. I
t's easy to say Spielman made the wrong choice in hindsight, but after 2012 we thought we had a younger tackle who was already better. Sonetimes, things like that happen. Regardless, the results would be the same if we still had McKinnie.
McKinnie was all about the money. We had to get under the cap that day, he was overweight, and wouldn't take a pay cut so he was gone. Could think of some worse players they could have cut, and likely wouldn't have left and started for a super bowl winning team.
And having lost a left tackle Spielman drafted a left tackle early, like he usually does.
DKSweets wrote:McKinnie isn't a player we should be upset about losing. He was lazy and contributed heavily to almost getting Favre killed.
It's easy to say Spielman made the wrong choice in hindsight, but after 2012 we thought we had a younger tackle who was already better. Sonetimes, things like that happen. Regardless, the results would be the same if we still had McKinnie.
They didn't make the wrong choice with McKinnie anyway. He was an aging, overweight underachiever with a penchant for making headlines for the wrong reasons and even if they'd kept him, they'd need a replacement by now. Plus, odds are good that if they'd kept him, the same people who complain that he was cut would probably be complaining that he wasn't replaced.
Demi wrote:And having lost a left tackle Spielman drafted a left tackle early, like he usually does.
That's an odd statement. In what way does Spielman "usually" draft a left tackle early?
joe h wrote:continuing to resign MBT at least once a season?
What does this have to do with anything?? MBT was simply a 3rd string practice/practice squad type guy
joe h wrote:Mickinnie had at least 5 weeks to diet, and he would have been in perfect shape to protect mcnabb, or ponder
Oh really?? And you know this how?? He was aging and lazy. It was time to move on and not have to deal with his antics any longer.
joe h wrote:we would have never been in position to grab any of the 2012 busts.
This one really cracks me up. So you're telling me Bryant McKinnie was going to save our season or even give us 2-3 more wins??? Sorry but that team was an absolute mess. A "decent" LT wasn't going to improve our team that much. Bottom line is, the majority of people would have made the same move and the majority of people would have taken Kalil. You act like Spielman drafted a bust off jump street. Kalil was a pro bowl rookie LT. It's not Spielmans fault that Kalil's head went into the gutter. There isn't a single person out there that saw that coming
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
What does this have to do with anything?? MBT was simply a 3rd string practice/practice squad type guy
Oh really?? And you know this how?? He was aging and lazy. It was time to move on and not have to deal with his antics any longer.
This one really cracks me up. So you're telling me Bryant McKinnie was going to save our season or even give us 2-3 more wins??? Sorry but that team was an absolute mess. A "decent" LT wasn't going to improve our team that much. Bottom line is, the majority of people would have made the same move and the majority of people would have taken Kalil. You act like Spielman drafted a bust off jump street. Kalil was a pro bowl rookie LT. It's not Spielmans fault that Kalil's head went into the gutter. There isn't a single person out there that saw that coming
Got to say you are very correct and I totally agree with you on how crazy these far fetched assumptions seem to be.
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!
Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
That's an odd statement. In what way does Spielman "usually" draft a left tackle early?
Referring more to filling needs as they open. Favre/TJoke Ponder. Shankdawg Rudolph. McKinnie Kalil. Harvin Patterson. Winfield Rhodes. KWill Floyd.
This seems to be the first year he didn't. Not sure how many teams draft similarly so maybe it's just the way it's done. Especially when you lack the depth to fill those positions with players on the roster.
You can have so many outcomes and avenues to approach. One thing that irks me is the mentality that a Manning type QB is necessary to win in today's NFL. To the people that feel that way let me ask you this, if you took a hypothetical time machine, and brung back the 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs, do you think those teams would be able to win now? I sure as hell do. Ravens won in 2000 with the worst offense ever to win a super bowl. You can even lump last years Sea Chickens team into that equation. You hold a team to 8 points and you have such an astronomical chance to win it's not even funny, regardless of who the QB is. Manning couldn't do anything. Historically speaking, and some flyby research on my part, not trying to go all Captain statistics on everyone because I don't have the patience for it, the super bowl winners usually field a top 5 defense.
16 of the 48 winners didn't have a top 5 defense from what I saw, about 5-6 of those were just outside the top 5 (like 6th or 7th) . If you count 5 "almosts" that's about 11 of 48 winners NOT fielding a top 5 defense. Alot of these teams however also fielded a top 10 offense, but the percentages favor the defensive side of the ball. Perfect example would be last year, almost everyone saw that curbstomp. Everyone always sticks to this notion that a GM is graded based on QB's, when the truth is those types of quarterbacks mentioned earlier don't come around very often. If you throw Favre in, in the past 15 years or so there have been a handful of quarterbacks that can be considered elite. Brady, Brees, P Manning, Rodgers, Favre, Warner, and I would throw Big Ben into that list as an honorable mention. I might have forgotten some but the point still stands. Thats 32 teams with at least two quarterbacks a piece. 15 drafts, 7 rounds, supplementals, undrafteds, cuts and signings and the leage has managed to maintain under 10 elite tier quarterbacks in that whole timeframe. Plenty of "just under" QB's like stafford, romo, rivers etc. It's still rare. Very rare. Stafford, Romo, Ryan, Rivers, throw picks and choke in big situations like it's nobody's business. The fans of those teams complain about those quarterbacks just like we do about ours.
I'm not ready to grade Spielman on the QB position. It's the most luck based position to draft in the nfl, period. It also takes time historically to see whether or not the QB can play at a high level, with a few exceptions. I will grade him however, on putting talent together as a whole. He drafted arguably the greatest running back to ever play the sport. Brung in Jared Allen. Drafted talent like Harvin, Sullivan, Barr, Rhodes, Smith, Walsh, Floyd, etc. Sure some of that talent has yet to be fully evaluated, or went completely batshit crazy, but his pedigree as a whole doesn't strike me as a cause for concern. To hell with what he does at QB, seriously. The one thing that concerned me was how the whole Frazier situation was handled. Dude was obviously in over his head and he took too long to rectify the situation. Turner strikes me as an issue too but we'll see about that one. He then turns around and hires this gem of a coach that we have now. I honestly believe Zimmer will finally get this franchise a trophy, but again, that's just opinion and speculation on my part.
Defensively we have talent. With good coaching as you can see we have become respectable, bordering on dangerous. Nobody is underestimating this defensive unit anymore. They add a handful of players, drop some dead weight, add a coach and it goes from last to near a top 10, if not a top 10. With practically the same roster.
Demi wrote:
Referring more to filling needs as they open. Favre/TJoke Ponder. Shankdawg Rudolph. McKinnie Kalil. Harvin Patterson. Winfield Rhodes. KWill Floyd.
This seems to be the first year he didn't. Not sure how many teams draft similarly so maybe it's just the way it's done. Especially when you lack the depth to fill those positions with players on the roster.
Just to follow up on McKinnie. He was able to get in shape quick enough to beat out oher for starting left tackle, Flacco was so impressive that season he was re signed for a ridiculous amount of money, and Flacco has since looked mediocre at best.
Meanwhile, we patch our lt with a lg, resulting in mcnabb giving up after a couple weeks, Ponder developing a severe case of ptsd, and we still don't have a starting lt 4 years later.
joe h wrote:Just to follow up on McKinnie. He was able to get in shape quick enough to beat out oher for starting left tackle, Flacco was so impressive that season he was re signed for a ridiculous amount of money, and Flacco has since looked mediocre at best.
... and we're supposed to believe that's because of McKinnie? Flacco signed his big contract after the Ravens won the Super Bowl in February of 2013. McKinnie didn't start a regular season game for the Ravens that year, although he started some of the playoff games.
I was in Vegas the first weekend of September that year for an Alvarez fight, Baltimore was on the main screen at the mirage, and mckinnie was definitely the starting left tackle, and played the entire game! This revisionist crap is just getting ridiculous.
joe h wrote:I was in Vegas the first weekend of September that year for an Alvarez fight, Baltimore was on the main screen at the mirage, and mckinnie was definitely the starting left tackle, and played the entire game! This revisionist crap is just getting ridiculous.
It's not "revisionist crap". I think you're just mixing two seasons together.
The Vikings cut McKinnie in 2011. He joined the Ravens that season and started all 16 games.
The Ravens won the Super Bowl following the 2012 season. McKinnie started in the postseason that year but he didn't start any games in the regular season. You posted that "Flacco was so impressive that season he was re signed for a ridiculous amount of money, and Flacco has since looked mediocre at best". Flacco signed the big contract after an impressive, Super Bowl-winning 2012 season in which McKinnie didn't start a regular season game, just the playoff games. He didn't sign it after the 2011 season, in which McKinnie was the regular starting tackle.
