Vikings considering changes on the offensive line

[dead_poet]

Makes me wonder what Peterson could have done with an elite OL in front of him (like the talent the 49ers have on their OL). He probably would have not only broke Eric Dickerson's record; might have shattered it.

If AD plays again for the Vikings, job one is for him to whip the OL into shape.

That's not AD's responsibility. And his near record-setting performance was thanks in large part to Sullivan's blocking. He's a top-5 center and, while not perfect, he's one of the few that's not the problem.

[HardcoreVikesFan]

Change to what? The only change that would make sense is playing David Yankey at left guard. Maybe Joe Berger at guard/center. Mike Harris isn't an upgrade at either tackle position. Neither is Andrew Wentworth/Mike Remmers. If you think are starters are bad on the offensive line, our backups are worse.

[Pseudo Everything]

That's not AD's responsibility. And his near record-setting performance was thanks in large part to Sullivan's blocking. He's a top-5 center and, while not perfect, he's one of the few that's not the problem.

AD and the OL ... it was a joke.

I disagree about Sullivan. There are plenty of centers I'd take ahead of him. He's undersized and gets run over too many times. He's listed at 301 but I doubt he's ever played at that weight. I'd guess he is probably in the low 290s and maybe even in the 280s. The media narrative is to portray him as the anchor and a top center but when I go back and look at the tape I don't see it. He's been living off his (undeserved) press clippings for a couple of years now.

[dead_poet]

I disagree about Sullivan. There are plenty of centers I'd take ahead of him. He's undersized and gets run over too many times. He's listed at 301 but I doubt he's ever played at that weight. I'd guess he is probably in the low 290s and maybe even in the 280s. The media narrative is to portray him as the anchor and a top center but when I go back and look at the tape I don't see it. He's been living off his (undeserved) press clippings for a couple of years now.

We'll agree to disagree. When he's on his game there aren't many better. There's a reason why so many of the team's runs (and successful runs) the last few years have come up the gut. I highly doubt he's under 280.

[nightowl]

Are you kidding me? Charlie Johnson is swimming in cachet, my friend!

I know your playing around, but this immediately came to mind...

click

[Texas Vike]

I know your playing around, but this immediately came to mind...

click

That's awesome. I got the sense that the writer didn't quite know what cachet means either. Or they were being ironic and having some fun, which, at this point, they might as well. That's probably true for all of us actually!

[Purple Reign]

We'll agree to disagree. When he's on his game there aren't many better. There's a reason why so many of the team's runs (and successful runs) the last few years have come up the gut. I highly doubt he's under 280.

No one said he was under 280. PE said he may be in the 280's (which could mean 289), but he didn't say he was below 280.

[dead_poet]

No one said he was under 280. PE said he may be in the 280's (which could mean 289), but he didn't say he was below 280.

Sorry. I doubt he's in the 280s.

[44crm]

I'm inclined to keep Kalil where he is, give him some help and see if he can ride this out. There are stretches where he plays quite well but then breakdowns occur and they look disastrous. Loadholt's the same way on the other side.

The coaches need to look at how the backup players are performing in practice and if it looks like someone deserves a shot to start over one of the underachieving OL starters, put 'em in and see what happens.

Meanwhile, I think the Vikes need to change several dynamics that are leading to ugly losses and Norv is going to have to find some way to use more fast-developing plays. That will help Bridgewater get the ball out quicker and take some pressure off the struggling o-line. They Vikes also need to find their running game. That relies on the OL too but sometimes, the best way to right a struggling OL is to challenge them to get physical and push a defense around for 4 quarters. Give it to MckInnon, Felton, Asiata... heck give Line a chance if it will work! This team already has 3 games where they've run the ball for less than 70 yards. That's just putting more pressure on the passing game and the poor pass protection.

They also have to play better defense early in games. The Vikes are allowing an average of 8.5 points in the first quarter this year. Only the Bucs defense has been worse (with an average of 12!). The Vikes are better in the second quarter (6.3 average) but still among the worst in first half points allowed, with a 14.8 average. They keep giving up early leads and I think that compounds their problems because opposing teams aren't worried about a home run threat (not much need to be overly concerned by Patterson at this point—he hasn't been much of a factor for the past 5 weeks) or the running game. They can just go after the QB.

I don't have any easy answers but I do think the answers lie in playing better defense early, establishing and sustaining a running game and utilizing game plans that get the ball out of Teddy's hands more quickly. The OL still needs to step up and do their part but maybe taking a little pressure off them in the passing game and putting it on them in the running game will help.

Of course, that might not be the best game plan against the top-ranked Bills run defense.

Well said, I think that Kalil is a problem but he is by far our best option at LT. Watching the game again, I would say Loadholt and Charlie Johnson did worse than Kalil.

My belief is we start playing some two TE sets, and even an extra lineman. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is more help sticking around after the snap. I understand that Teddy held the ball a little long in some situations, but to have the line that horrible has to do with a lack of effort, and a lack of running the ball.

As far as running the ball more, I completely agree Mothman. Look at the Cowboys, they are running the ball over 35 times a game. I understand we do not have Murray in our backfield, but it is hard for me to believe that we wouldn't be better off if we ran the ball upwards of 30 times a game. There is no reason with the way the Oline is playing that we shouldn't be running non-stop. I don't care if it reminds us of the Vikings of old, because we already look like the Vikings of old.

I think the new deal with Loadholt was a bad move, he is good at run blocking but he was getting burned by everyone once Teddy dropped back. Never liked Loadholt, and that doesn't look like it's going to change. I think he will be gone next year along with Charlie Johnson as long as contracts don't hurt the team too much.

Look for us to draft Oline round 1 and maybe 2 next year. Especially if Teddy is the future.

[yezzir]

I'm inclined to keep Kalil where he is, give him some help and see if he can ride this out. There are stretches where he plays quite well but then breakdowns occur and they look disastrous. Loadholt's the same way on the other side.

The coaches need to look at how the backup players are performing in practice and if it looks like someone deserves a shot to start over one of the underachieving OL starters, put 'em in and see what happens.

Meanwhile, I think the Vikes need to change several dynamics that are leading to ugly losses and Norv is going to have to find some way to use more fast-developing plays. That will help Bridgewater get the ball out quicker and take some pressure off the struggling o-line. They Vikes also need to find their running game. That relies on the OL too but sometimes, the best way to right a struggling OL is to challenge them to get physical and push a defense around for 4 quarters. Give it to MckInnon, Felton, Asiata... heck give Line a chance if it will work! This team already has 3 games where they've run the ball for less than 70 yards. That's just putting more pressure on the passing game and the poor pass protection.

They also have to play better defense early in games. The Vikes are allowing an average of 8.5 points in the first quarter this year. Only the Bucs defense has been worse (with an average of 12!). The Vikes are better in the second quarter (6.3 average) but still among the worst in first half points allowed, with a 14.8 average. They keep giving up early leads and I think that compounds their problems because opposing teams aren't worried about a home run threat (not much need to be overly concerned by Patterson at this point—he hasn't been much of a factor for the past 5 weeks) or the running game. They can just go after the QB.

I don't have any easy answers but I do think the answers lie in playing better defense early, establishing and sustaining a running game and utilizing game plans that get the ball out of Teddy's hands more quickly. The OL still needs to step up and do their part but maybe taking a little pressure off them in the passing game and putting it on them in the running game will help.

Of course, that might not be the best game plan against the top-ranked Bills run defense.

I don't have answers, but letting Kalil play like he has, we have no chance.

It doesn't matter who your coaches are, who your receivers are, how well your D plays... if your QB is getting hurried and/or hit 50% of the time (per Lions game) there is no chance to win.

It drives me crazy how he can be playing so terribly. I'd bench him and see how our 2nd option does. Can't be any worse, right?

[PurpleKoolaid]

I'm inclined to keep Kalil where he is, give him some help and see if he can ride this out. There are stretches where he plays quite well but then breakdowns occur and they look disastrous. Loadholt's the same way on the other side.

The coaches need to look at how the backup players are performing in practice and if it looks like someone deserves a shot to start over one of the underachieving OL starters, put 'em in and see what happens.

Meanwhile, I think the Vikes need to change several dynamics that are leading to ugly losses and Norv is going to have to find some way to use more fast-developing plays. That will help Bridgewater get the ball out quicker and take some pressure off the struggling o-line. They Vikes also need to find their running game. That relies on the OL too but sometimes, the best way to right a struggling OL is to challenge them to get physical and push a defense around for 4 quarters. Give it to MckInnon, Felton, Asiata... heck give Line a chance if it will work! This team already has 3 games where they've run the ball for less than 70 yards. That's just putting more pressure on the passing game and the poor pass protection.

They also have to play better defense early in games. The Vikes are allowing an average of 8.5 points in the first quarter this year. Only the Bucs defense has been worse (with an average of 12!). The Vikes are better in the second quarter (6.3 average) but still among the worst in first half points allowed, with a 14.8 average. They keep giving up early leads and I think that compounds their problems because opposing teams aren't worried about a home run threat (not much need to be overly concerned by Patterson at this point—he hasn't been much of a factor for the past 5 weeks) or the running game. They can just go after the QB.

I don't have any easy answers but I do think the answers lie in playing better defense early, establishing and sustaining a running game and utilizing game plans that get the ball out of Teddy's hands more quickly. The OL still needs to step up and do their part but maybe taking a little pressure off them in the passing game and putting it on them in the running game will help.

Of course, that might not be the best game plan against the top-ranked Bills run defense.

^
Excellent post. Maybe the Vikings will shock everyone and have a great running game. I've seen weirder things happen with the vikes.

[Demi]

Spielman didn't leave them with any options even if they wanted to make changes...

[dead_poet]

I think the new deal with Loadholt was a bad move, he is good at run blocking but he was getting burned by everyone once Teddy dropped back. Never liked Loadholt, and that doesn't look like it's going to change. I think he will be gone next year along with Charlie Johnson as long as contracts don't hurt the team too much.

Don't bet on Loadholt being released, for a number of reasons. Is he the best right tackle in the league? No. But he is one of the best run-blocking right tackles in the league. His pass protection, at times, can be suspect, but it's not like he's the only right tackle that gets beat in pass protection. We just notice it more because we don't pay attention to other teams' right tackles. He'd start and be an upgrade on many teams.

Plus, he just signed a contract extension, is due $5.4 million in 2015 and we'd be searching for a potential upgrade. If he's released, there's as big (or more) of a chance that whoever is signed to replace him is a worse run blocker and as "good" (or bad) of a pass blocker to make the change a net negative in the overall scheme of things.

Loadholt isn't perfect by any means, but he's better than average. With a healthy Fusco next to him, they form a formidable right side of the line. It's probably not a surprise that he's not performing as well with a considerable downgrade next to him.

[PurpleMustReign]

Spielman didn't leave them with any options even if they wanted to make changes...

We get it, you don't like Speielman. You don't have to clog every thread with it.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[BGM]

Spielman didn't leave them with any options even if they wanted to make changes...

This is true. The OL has needed upgrading and the OL players we have chosen have been misfires or, at the risk of beating a dead horse, are not being coached very well. There is very little depth behind the starting five and that starting five has been abysmal this season.