Accountability

[PurpleKoolaid]

The accountability should start with the Wilf's. Ever since the moment they fired Tice, with a 9-7 record. They humiliated him, firing him right on the spot. We then found out, the Wilf's aren't only NJ thugs, they know nothing about football. And they hire Childress.

Then they kept Rickie around, and instead of punishing him, or firing him, for the disappointing seasons, they promote him to GM. Rickie is more to blame then anyone, for what this team is.

He should be gone at the end of the season. I hope Zimmer, Teddy and Norv are the real thing. Or everything during Spielman's tenure is a complete waste.

Its hard to put a lot of blame on Teddy. Its kind of like what happened to #7. He got forced in earlier then expected, and the Oline is/was worse then anyone imagined. Lets hope Teddy can bounce back because #7 never has.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Overpaying average free agents. Extending average players. Things you have to do when you're incapable of finding them yourself. Wow look at his first rounds!...Really? Look at them. How are they actually doing? Forget potential. And what about the rest of his picks? Guy did a horrible job in his previous two stops, and Zygi decides he should make all the personnel decisions and run the team? That's the type of ownership that keeps Minnesota teams from anything meaningful!!!

You obviously haven't read my recent posts Mr. Negative

What makes Fusco average Demi?? His top 10 grades in BOTH run and pass blocking??? His top 10 overall OG rank??

What makes Joseph average Demi?? His 3 consecutive CONSISTENT 50 tackle, 3-4 sack seasons?? The fact that he is outplaying 8 of the top 10 highest payed DT's in the NFL???

What makes Spielman incapable of finding a 1 tech DT and a RG??? Has he ever took a 1 tech DT or RG early since 2012?? No. So does that make him incapable of finding them?? No it simply shows that he had other bigger needs to assess at the time and has found them other ways such as FA and late in the draft.

Simply another post with ZERO backing behind it. Every thread I have posted in today consists of your negative, minimally supported posts that say nothing but "he's average, he sucks, no talent" but have NOTHING to back any of it up. So why don't you go ahead and answer my above questions. Or better yet, go into other threads where I have more in depth posts regarding similar matters and back a post of yours up for once. Show me something other than your "whining and crying" to mommy as you put it. Because right now (and always)....that's all you have and that's all I see.

[VikingLord]

I'm wondering it too but since we're only 6 games into a new season with a new coaching staff (the first Spielman has hired for the Vikes) and the team has had undeniable run of misfortune lately, I think we need to be patient and see where things go from here.

I agree. I don't know what most fans expected when the Vikes lost so many of their more highly rated offensive players, but it's not exactly surprising that they are struggling right now. I don't think it's time to call for firings quite yet, and in fact it's extremely likely this season is going to be a very long one where the best we can hope for is to see marked growth in some of the younger players on the team. Defenses are going to study Bridgewater's tendencies and he's going to struggle as a result. They're going to come after him and try to knock him around and get inside his head. He's going to have to adapt to that, and that process is a necessary one to answer the question as to whether Bridgewater can be the answer at QB for this team, or if they have to keep looking.

I hate to watch them lose, but I'm not surprised by their struggles and I expect a lot more of them this season. But I see more reason to hope now than I did before because I knew Ponder wasn't the answer, and I wasn't thrilled that so much of the offense was designed around the talents of a singular player at a position that has become extremely de-valued at the pro level in recent years. Now, both of those impediments to the long-term growth potential of the team have been removed. Ponder is 3rd-string and is no longer being forced into a role he simply cannot perform consistently. And the team can no longer sit back and try to pop AD for big gains. Like it or not, they have to change, and for this team, that might not be such a bad thing.

There is more reason for hope now than at any time in the last 3 or so odd seasons IMHO when they were stuck in a "Groundhog Day"-like loop. I don't know if the end result will be any better, but at least it's different, and that's reason for optimism because what they were doing before just wasn't going to take them anywhere.

[fiestavike]

I still don't see this team as nearly as bad as some of you. they are bad in the sense that their offensive line performance has been pathetic all season and it will lead to a lot of losses, but its not like there are just holes all over the place on the team. The defense is coming together and I think will prove to be a real bright spot.

Losing Fusco really hurt, and Johnson and Kalil are absolutely horrible. We need to address that line in the offseason, and I think if we do that, we can be a very good football team. I don't care if its free agents, trades, the draft, or a combination, but we need to bring in some good linemen.

[maembe]

I still don't see this team as nearly as bad as some of you. they are bad in the sense that their offensive line performance has been pathetic all season and it will lead to a lot of losses, but its not like there are just holes all over the place on the team. The defense is coming together and I think will prove to be a real bright spot.

Losing Fusco really hurt, and Johnson and Kalil are absolutely horrible. We need to address that line in the offseason, and I think if we do that, we can be a very good football team. I don't care if its free agents, trades, the draft, or a combination, but we need to bring in some good linemen.

What sucks about that is that we thought the O-line was going to be a strength going into this season. I really have no idea what happened. Going into this season we had four potential pro-bowlers and now we have to rebuild our line? Is it the coaching? I honestly don't know.

[fiestavike]

What sucks about that is that we thought the O-line was going to be a strength going into this season. I really have no idea what happened. Going into this season we had four potential pro-bowlers and now we have to rebuild our line? Is it the coaching? I honestly don't know.

I know I lot of folks felt our line was a strength. I was not one of them, but they have been even worse than I expected! Peterson covered up a lot of their warts, and losing Fusco combined with the demise of Kalil has just led to total disaster up front.

A big part of the problem is simply physical in my opinion. Sullivan is a good player but he is small and not terribly powerful. Charlie Johnson is also "underpowered", and Kalil is more of a basketball player than an NFL Tackle. What success we had running the ball this year came early in the season by running Right behind Fusco and Loadholt, and then after Fusco's injury came by spreading out and gashing a weak falcons defense with draw plays on the read option. We don't have the ability to overpower even an average NFL defense, let alone a team like the Lions.

[Purple Reign]

That being said it is way to early to make any rash judgements and I feel like the D played an outstanding game considering how many minutes that they spent on the field.

I agree that the defense played an outstanding game yesterday but I wouldn't put the qualification 'considering how many minutes that they spent on the field' on it. It just seemed like they were on the field more since the offense couldn't sustain hardly any drives. Detroit had a slight edge in TOP but it was fairly close at 32:21 to 27:39 (which can be deceiving at times since a running team can eat up more clock than a passing team because incomplete passes stop the clock). A more telling stat would be the number of plays by each team and Detroit only had 2 more plays 65-63. Plus Detroit was only 1 of 13 in 3rd down conversions (and I believe the lone conversion was because of penalty) so it wasn't like the defense couldn't get off the field.

[losperros]

The accountability should start with the Wilf's. Ever since the moment they fired Tice, with a 9-7 record. They humiliated him, firing him right on the spot. We then found out, the Wilf's aren't only NJ thugs, they know nothing about football. And they hire Childress.

Then they kept Rickie around, and instead of punishing him, or firing him, for the disappointing seasons, they promote him to GM. Rickie is more to blame then anyone, for what this team is.

He should be gone at the end of the season. I hope Zimmer, Teddy and Norv are the real thing. Or everything during Spielman's tenure is a complete waste.

Its hard to put a lot of blame on Teddy. Its kind of like what happened to #7. He got forced in earlier then expected, and the Oline is/was worse then anyone imagined. Lets hope Teddy can bounce back because #7 never has.

I don't know what to think of Spielman yet. I have my doubts but I'm not convinced the draft picks are as bad as some are saying.

Aside from that, I agree with your post wholeheartedly. The Wilfs are a questionable group, what with their own behavioral troubles and their ownership track record so far. Couple that with Zygi needing cue cards to answer even the simplest questions in public. And this was all right after tightwad Red McCombs! What a train wreck of ownerships.

[losperros]

I agree. I don't know what most fans expected when the Vikes lost so many of their more highly rated offensive players, but it's not exactly surprising that they are struggling right now. I don't think it's time to call for firings quite yet, and in fact it's extremely likely this season is going to be a very long one where the best we can hope for is to see marked growth in some of the younger players on the team. Defenses are going to study Bridgewater's tendencies and he's going to struggle as a result. They're going to come after him and try to knock him around and get inside his head. He's going to have to adapt to that, and that process is a necessary one to answer the question as to whether Bridgewater can be the answer at QB for this team, or if they have to keep looking

I very much agree with both of you on this. It doesn't feel good after a loss and this last one was bad, especially the OL's non-performance, but at this point I'm not giving up on the team. That said...

I think there may be character/leadership issues on the team and I definitely think there are issues with the team's talent level. That's been true for several years now.

You bet. Quite honestly, I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this. The character issues might be something that cannot be cured until next year. I hope it isn't that way. If there are some severe characters issues (and I believe that is a possibility), then some players need to step up and become forceful leaders.

Regarding talent gaps, I think it's obvious. The Vikings need at least one more draft and free agency to deal with them.

[indianation65]

Every season I always say it takes 4-6 games to really know where the team stands. Now, living down here in cowboy land, I shake my head again at this season, and at my/our Vikings. I do really believe in "the football gods, curses, the stars in and out of alignment, favorite sons, destiny, etc.," all that "out in the universe" stuff. For teams that constantly have Super Bowl trophies on the shelves, and for those who don't. I wonder if my time will expire before Minnesota is crowned a champ. MV is not the only team, there are a few more that feel "real" pain in the NFL, and those like Pitt that seem to find a way every few years. Dallas' season so far, come on, this has to be a joke. I'm hoping to turn around in a shower like Bobby Ewing, realizing it was all a dream/bad nightmare.

Addendum: There is still lots of football to be played, but any week when cowboys and packers both win, and Vikings do not, it hurts. I can't listen to local sports talk the following Monday.
Addendum II: I just saw this quote from Zimmer..." "I'm extremely disappointed about this loss. I can handle getting beat, but I can't handle getting our butts whipped like that." If I was a coach, I couldn't handle any loss. I'd seethe privately, but publicly, I'd find other words. "Hating to lose," loathing it, is the first step.

...wisdom

[Pseudo Everything]

Tom Johnson was one of the few Vikings that played well yesterday. Maybe he needs to get arrested more often.

[PurpleKoolaid]

You obviously haven't read my recent posts Mr. Negative

What makes Fusco average Demi?? His top 10 grades in BOTH run and pass blocking??? His top 10 overall OG rank??

What makes Joseph average Demi?? His 3 consecutive CONSISTENT 50 tackle, 3-4 sack seasons?? The fact that he is outplaying 8 of the top 10 highest payed DT's in the NFL???

What makes Spielman incapable of finding a 1 tech DT and a RG??? Has he ever took a 1 tech DT or RG early since 2012?? No. So does that make him incapable of finding them?? No it simply shows that he had other bigger needs to assess at the time and has found them other ways such as FA and late in the draft.

Simply another post with ZERO backing behind it. Every thread I have posted in today consists of your negative, minimally supported posts that say nothing but "he's average, he sucks, no talent" but have NOTHING to back any of it up. So why don't you go ahead and answer my above questions. Or better yet, go into other threads where I have more in depth posts regarding similar matters and back a post of yours up for once. Show me something other than your "whining and crying" to mommy as you put it. Because right now (and always)....that's all you have and that's all I see.

First off, Foe him, if his rational posts upset you so much.

Secondly, you know there is no prize for sticking up for Rickie, every time someone mentions his name in a negative way, right?

[Pondering Her Percy]

First off, Foe him, if his rational posts upset you so much.

Secondly, you know there is no prize for sticking up for Rickie, every time someone mentions his name in a negative way, right?

It has nothing to do with "foeing" him. I am asking him to backup his negativity for once. If he can't do that, then it does nothing but show me he has zero rationale behind anything and very much enjoys bit**ing and complaining

Also, what I am defending Spielman for, actually has backing behind it. I am defending him with facts as shown in my post above. Not just defending him so "I can win a prize". There's a difference.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I definitely think there are issues with the team's talent level.

I find it quite laughable when I see this. Especially after seeing the HUGE jump our defense has made and simply because of the hit our offense has taken as I mentioned in other threads. So in turn, I will post exactly what I did earlier so I don't have to type up the same points I mentioned before......


THAT TALENT IS HURT/SUSPENDED and we have a rookie QB in his 2nd career game. Holy geez......what do you expect??? We lost our best overall player, our best overall lineman and one of our top receiving options. To add onto that we have a 21 year old kid making his 2nd career start at QB. You act like Spielman knew Peterson would be gone, Fusco and Rudolph would be hurt and our QB options would be limited and he just did nothing about it.

I would honestly LOVE to see what you would have done this offseason. Take a LG at #9??? Ok than how would you assess SLB?? Would you draft a WR at 32?? Ok then how did you plan on assessing QB?? What about a safety in the 3rd round??? Ok so you would have gone into this year with backups of Asiata and Banyard???

I mean come on.....everyone gives Zimmer all this credit for working wonders for the defense which he has. I think he has done a great job but someone tell me another reason why this defense is so much better??? Yes Zimmer is part of the reason but why else??? Would it be because of the players Spielman has put on that defense perhaps???

The depth he provided by drafting Gerald Hodges who has played great and will probably be Greenway's successor. What about the move that SPIELMAN made to move up and draft possibly one of the best safeties in the game in Smith. The signing of Joseph who has been solid in the middle. The draft pick of Floyd who I thought has played better this year. The draft pick of Xavier Rhodes who has came into his own. Josh Robinson who is looking better. 2 mid-round DE's that have brought play and leadership. Anthony Barr who has been an absolute beast. A late round sleeper in Shamar Stephen.

Did Zimmer somehow create this talent over night??? I can bet money if you took out Harrison Smith, Anthony Barr, Linval Joseph, and Everson Griffen.....our defense would probably suck too.

Thats why I'm saying that this offense has taken a HUGE hit losing the guys they have lost. Not many, if any at all could overcome that kind of hit to an offense. And no I'm not looking to make excuses for the Vikings nor Spielman but bottom line is....its the reality of it. We were that unlucky team that got nailed with injuries and suspensions and the worst part about it is that it all happened on the offensive side of the ball

How bad would the Eagles offense be if they lost Nick Foles, LeSean McCoy, Zack Ertz, and Jason Peters???
" " Broncos offense if they lost Peyton Manning, Montee Ball, Julius Thomas and Ryan Clady??
" " Seahawks offense if they lost Russell Wilson, Marshawn Lynch, Zach Miller and Russell Okung??
Even a lesser team like the Chiefs if they lost Alex Smith, Jamaal Charles, Travis Kelce, and Eric Fisher??

.....do you get the point now??? They would all suck no matter what you say. And it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with any of their GM's. It's the reality of it and plain old bad luck. No matter what the talent level is, its next to impossible to overcome to the point where you can still CONSISTENTLY win games. Period

[Mothman]

I find it quite laughable when I see this. Especially after seeing the HUGE jump our defense has made and simply because of the hit our offense has taken as I mentioned in other threads. So in turn, I will post exactly what I did earlier so I don't have to type up the same points I mentioned before......

"Laughable"? Hardly.

I read your rant earlier so you didn't need to re-post it. However, as I hope you can see from reading my posts, I'm not the sort of fan who just embraces extremes and overreacts to each loss. I think the Vikes clearly have talent issues. In a broader sense, it might be more accurate to say they have personnel issues and when I refer to talent, I really mean it in that broader sense. Talent is an issue but so is the experience level of some of the players on the roster. The reliability and availability of some of the personnel is an issue too.

Saying the team has talent issues is FAR different than saying they are bereft of talent, which seems to be the focus of your response. I'm saying this team does not have a playoff-caliber combination of talent and experience. I think that's a pretty accurate assessment and depth plays a part in it. I'm not holding Spielman accountable for Peterson's absence but it's clearly a problem. The depth at RB has been inadequate to firmly establish a credible running game that concerns opposing defenses. There's some WR talent on the team but a lot of it is in serious need of development and at this point, it's getting harder and harder to see Jennings as anything but a disappointment. The depth at TE is such that losing Rudolph has clearly led to a real dropoff and since Rudolph has proven unreliable (ie: can't stay on the field), his overall value is becoming more and more questionable too. Talent that doesn't play isn't very helpful.

It should be painfully obvious after the last two weeks that there are talent issues on the starting o-line and who knows if the depth there is any good at all? It's largely unproven.

I think the defensive personnel has been upgraded. There are some good players on that side of the ball and some players with the potential to be great but what is the goal here? Is it to be an average defense? A playoff-caliber defense? A Super Bowl defense? I certainly don't see the making of a Super Bowl-caliber defense on the current defensive roster, although some of these players could eventually help anchor that kind of unit.

The defense has taken a step forward when compared to the 2013 unit but the HUGE jump you're talking about has resulted in a unit that, thus far, is statistically comparable (and a little inferior) to the 2012 defense. That defense was part of a playoff team so I'm not being critical. I'm impressed with their progress but I'm also keeping it in perspective. "Better than last year" isn't the end goal. the defense isn't a finished product and it's another area that still needs more talent.

Again, I'm not saying the roster is bereft of talent and I'm not attacking Spielman here either but if the goal is to put together a team capable of winning a Super Bowl, please explain to me how the suggestion that this current Vikings team has talent issues is laughable. I sure don't see a roster that is capable of challenging for a title and I doubt you do either. I don't expect to see that yet either. I'm just saying: the talent/personnel issues on this team are undeniable.