King of Cassel

[purplehaze]

I thought King of Cassel deserves a thread of his own. I liked WEBBFANN'S comments in the 54.2 thread. Here is his quote ""Cassel has had very good years and very bad years so I don't know how anyone can predict his future play with a new team (MN). I don't think he is or isn't a solution, he's a question mark that can only be answered by playing him.""

Great question. I find myself rooting for the Vikes to win again when Cassel plays unlike our other QB. Also, Cassel did not have AD in the backfield when he played for the Chiefs and Pats.

[losperros]

I have to admit I now believe that Cassel should start for the rest of this season. If the Vikings don't do that, then I think they'll be making a mistake. And I'm basing this solely on this season. I don't care what he did for other teams in the past. All I care about is what is happening right now for the Vikings offense. Currently, Cassel seems to be the most productive QB with the team.

[tmscr]

If the object is (as it should be) to put people on the field who give you the best chance of winning, then I see no reason to start anyone other than Cassel. He has performed admirably, especially considering his playing time has been sporadic at best. At this point, I just don't know what reason there would be to continue starting Ponder. The Vikings must know he won't be THE guy in the long run, and he hasn't distanced himself from Cassel in any way IMO. So, assuming Freeman is the non-factor he's become and Ponder is still the erratic, inconsistent guy he is, I see no reason for Cassel to not take over the ship the rest of the way. The offense just seems different when he's under center. He may not throw a pretty ball, but he throws guys open and forces defenses to at least honor the fact that the Vikings are capable of completing a pass greater than 7 yards downfield.

[purplehaze]

Is it just me or doesn't Cassel get rid of the ball much quicker than Ponder? Seems like he is much more decisive in the pocket.

[indianation65]

"I see no reason Cassel shouldn't start the rest of the season." A sentiment by Mr. tmscr, and I agree, except for the following:

There is one reason, the main reason, and that is Frazier. Whether he has/is being instructed to do so, Frazier sees Cassel, (the best QB on the Vikes) as a backup. Frazier can "barely" give any credit to Cassel, and for some reason he is in the Ponder camp no ifs, ands or buts! This season could have been entirely different if the positive energy would have stayed on the offense with Cassel playing. The team knows it, the players know it, the receivers for sure know it, the QBs know it and so do the coaches. I'd bet Frazier knows Cassel "should" have led the team all season, but he won't "choose" him. Then again, what's the point of reflecting too much. It only leads to frustration and anger, then stomach and headaches. This "fire'less" coach gives me headaches.

I know Cassel and the entire Chiefs organization had the negative vibe last year, but that was last year. As previously stated, I care about this year, and Cassel could have made a "real" difference. You don't think the Vikings could be competing with the Lions for first place if Cassel hadn't started all year? If you do not, you may have a little Frazier in'ya! Kidding Vikings brothers, we're all buddies here, and we all want the same thing, wins!

...wisdom

[thatguy]

I just see flashes of TJack when I look at Cassel. Not athletically, of course, but I can't tell if he's just horribly inconsistent or a complete headcase that can only come in and perform well when there's literally no pressure on him to do so. Look at how poorly he played against Carolina. He came into that game knowing that he was going to be the starter. If I recall correctly, his start against Pittsburgh was a last minute scratch for Ponder that gave Cassel the go. I just remember seeing Jackson perform like that so many times when Childress played around with him and Frerotte in 2008. Just a thought...

[indianation65]

I see the game against Carolina as I saw the Seahawks/Saints game. It was a unique lopsided game. The two teams in each game are not "that" far apart, but again, it's all opinion. The negative energy of each losing team in those two games became insurmountable and laughable.

...wisdom ? I don't know, but who does?

[mondry]

They're both prone to mistakes and not the future but as of right now Cassel's just better. For one he can actually stay healthy because the best part of his game isn't running! Some anti cassel / pro ponder guy will come in here and say how their completion percentage and other stats are pretty similar but if you actually watch the games it's pretty clear how superior Cassel actually is.

Yes a 4 yard pass that the receiver has to stop and wait for it to be delivered and caught counts towards Ponder's inflated completion percentage but the 4 yard pass that's put on the money that they can catch in front of them in stride that goes for 10+ yards is the same on the completion % sheet but completely different in effectiveness.

Cassel regularly get's past his first read far more often than Ponder. With Cassel you'll actually remember we have WR's not named Simpson and TE's not named Carlson. Seriously though, I almost thought Jennings was cut before Cassel came into the bears game, and how about that joke of an interview ponder had when asked about Jennings coming open over the middle and he said something along the lines of "Well my job is to get the ball to the open receiver and if he didn't get the ball I guess he wasn't open." Completely going off of memory for the quote so could have butchered it.

Cassel played poorly against Carolina, one of the best defenses in the NFL right now if not the best. Ranked #1 in points allowed, #2 in rush defense, and #6 against the pass. I hate to break it to anyone but Ponder doesn't win that game either. Carolina is simply a top 5 team right now and we didn't stand a chance. But it was enough of an excuse for Frazier to put Ponder back in. But clearly against weaker competition and both QB's getting a half against the bears it's prettttttttttty obvious who the superior QB is. Cassel has a quicker release and decides to get rid of the ball quicker as well. Don't get me wrong both QB's offer a fair share of bad, but at least with Cassel you're seeing the QB position "how it's meant to be played." He'll stand in the pocket and deliver the ball even if he has to take a hit, Ponder will give up and run. He's not afraid to try and exploit 8 in the box but Ponder is.

Frazier just get's stuck on some guys and will seemingly give them every single opportunity imaginable whether they've earned it or not. But then again I'm not surprised if he's going off of our practices. This pathetic D he supports, going against an inept guy like Ponder I'm sure they all look great practice. To him it's like the unstoppable force meeting the unmovable object when really they're both so bad that both sides thrive off of how inept the other is. When Ponder completes his 4 yard pass and the defender tackles it for a 4 yard gain both sides are happy with the result which is just a really weird style of football.

[Webbfann]

Cassel came out of the Pitt game having played very well and giving us our first win of the season. He must have been feeling pretty good about becoming the starter-the team was obviously feeling very good about his play-and he was rewarded with the team signing Freeman. And there was no doubt that Freeman was signed to be a starter. I don't care how "professional" a person is, and from all accounts Cassel is a class act if nothing else, that had to be hugely demoralizing both to him and the entire team. The pathetic performance against Carolina was the result.

I just see flashes of TJack when I look at Cassel. Not athletically, of course, but I can't tell if he's just horribly inconsistent or a complete headcase that can only come in and perform well when there's literally no pressure on him to do so. Look at how poorly he played against Carolina. He came into that game knowing that he was going to be the starter. If I recall correctly, his start against Pittsburgh was a last minute scratch for Ponder that gave Cassel the go. I just remember seeing Jackson perform like that so many times when Childress played around with him and Frerotte in 2008. Just a thought...

[losperros]

Cassel regularly get's past his first read far more often than Ponder. With Cassel you'll actually remember we have WR's not named Simpson and TE's not named Carlson. Seriously though, I almost thought Jennings was cut before Cassel came into the bears game, and how about that joke of an interview ponder had when asked about Jennings coming open over the middle and he said something along the lines of "Well my job is to get the ball to the open receiver and if he didn't get the ball I guess he wasn't open." Completely going off of memory for the quote so could have butchered it.

Yes, this is one of the reasons why I'm presently supporting starting Cassel. Cassel has always liked throwing to his WRs over dump-offs. I'm not indicting Ponder for being too quick to abandon his reads. Rather I'm saying that Cassel seems to have chemistry with Jennings, yet he still includes Simpson, Wright, and Patterson during the game.

I'm certainly not saying Cassel is the final answer for the Vikings at quarterback. But I do think he's proven he is the better QB among the three *backup* quarterbacks on the team's roster.

[Webbfann]

I could be wrong to; maybe Cassel just sucked that game regardless of the Freeman fiasco. But that's OK with me if a QB sucks once for every two wins where he plays well. I'm not one of the unrealistic "franchise QB" dreamers who will settle for nothing less, I just want to be competitive and have a chance to win. That might get old after a few years but I'd rather have consistency for a couple years than the roller coaster of the last few years.

[Webbfann]

Cassel is only a backup if your starter is Brees, Brady or Rodgers, or you are stuck on a fantasy draft pick. If we let him go he will start somewhere else next year. He was a backup under Brady (who wouldn't be?) and has started for almost all of the last few years. He may not be your ideal starter but he is not a backup.

[tmscr]

Cassel came out of the Pitt game having played very well and giving us our first win of the season. He must have been feeling pretty good about becoming the starter-the team was obviously feeling very good about his play-and he was rewarded with the team signing Freeman. And there was no doubt that Freeman was signed to be a starter. I don't care how "professional" a person is, and from all accounts Cassel is a class act if nothing else, that had to be hugely demoralizing both to him and the entire team. The pathetic performance against Carolina was the result.

That's a great point. Don't forget, Freeman was signed on October 6, during the Viking's bye week. It was open and obvious that Cassel's days as a starter were numbered. Now, I'm not saying that's a good reason to underperform, but it was almost like a lame duck game for Cassel. Now that we see how awesome Carolina apparently is, that poor game doesn't look so poor.

[Mothman]

Vikings: Matt Cassel will start at quarterback vs. Ravens

[losperros]

Vikings: Matt Cassel will start at quarterback vs. Ravens

Thanks for the link, Jim. One has to wonder what will happen if Cassel does fairly well. Will he be the starter from that point on? I would not rule out Ponder returning as the starter, especially if Cassel bombs out.

Sure doesn't sound as if Freeman will get another shot anytime soon.