Vikings vs. Cardinals thoughts

[Cliff]

Re: Effort in the preseason.

It's really difficult to tell if its lack of effort or an emphasis on staying healthy in a worthless game. Many think the preseason is too long as it is. Some players (starters) might just reflect that stance.

Cousins had an off night but that happens. Most know my stance on Cousins but I think most agree he's better than that game.

[CharVike]

It’s a preseason game. Cousins is arguably one of the more accurate QBs in the league but he goes 3-13 one time in a meaningless game and fans are panicking? Stump doesn’t even like cousins but is level headed enough to not worry about that.

The big problem is that is was another example of Cousins not being level headed. There are many factors that might explain poor production. Likewise, the conditions that caused him to panic and lose composure might also be mitigated by a more diverse offense, better weapons, better line play etc. What will never change is Kirk's propensity to panic and lose composure in those circumstances. This is a problem, and it might be a problem that limits the ceiling of a team QBed by Kirk Cousins. If it doesn't work out this year, it's time to move on from Kirk.

What does level headed mean?

[Purple Martin]

Yeah Zimmer said in his postgame that they didn’t gameplan or script any plays. That being said, he was pissed with the effort put out. He even said some guys on defense didn’t go into the huddle and thus didn’t even know the play call. That’s pretty infuriating, yeah it’s a preseason game but I really hate that lack of effort and judging by Zimmer face, so did he.

I think he’s right in that these guys on defense have been together so long that they’re a little complacent. Rhodes definitely looked like he was coasting. Pass rush from the 1st team was also poor (Zimmer’s assessment).

All signs that Zimmer is losing or has already lost the team. Or maybe just a lackluster effort from Zimmer on that particular day, if you want to paint some lipstick on the pig. Either way, Zimmer needs to shoulder more of the blame for these anemic efforts that happen too frequently. What was the highlight of the game offensively? The guy who is in Zimmer's doghouse coming out and winning the game. And will he get rewarded for that by being let out of the doghouse and moving up the depth chart for Thursday's game? Of course not.

[CharVike]

Yeah Zimmer said in his postgame that they didn’t gameplan or script any plays. That being said, he was pissed with the effort put out. He even said some guys on defense didn’t go into the huddle and thus didn’t even know the play call. That’s pretty infuriating, yeah it’s a preseason game but I really hate that lack of effort and judging by Zimmer face, so did he.

I think he’s right in that these guys on defense have been together so long that they’re a little complacent. Rhodes definitely looked like he was coasting. Pass rush from the 1st team was also poor (Zimmer’s assessment).

All signs that Zimmer is losing or has already lost the team. Or maybe just a lackluster effort from Zimmer on that particular day, if you want to paint some lipstick on the pig. Either way, Zimmer needs to shoulder more of the blame for these anemic efforts that happen too frequently. What was the highlight of the game offensively? The guy who is in Zimmer's doghouse coming out and winning the game. And will he get rewarded for that by being let out of the doghouse and moving up the depth chart for Thursday's game? Of course not.

That's some strong stuff "losing the team" and if that's the case we are in big trouble. Not sure how you tell if Rhodes was coasting. If that was the case he better get a big time fine. IMO I think he has lost some movement level. No different than what we all saw last year. He blamed injury but I've heard that before. Regardless I hope he is elite again. Just shutting the entire side down. The 1st two weeks will tell the story for him. So I'll hold judgement until then.

[StumpHunter]

Yeah Zimmer said in his postgame that they didn’t gameplan or script any plays. That being said, he was pissed with the effort put out. He even said some guys on defense didn’t go into the huddle and thus didn’t even know the play call. That’s pretty infuriating, yeah it’s a preseason game but I really hate that lack of effort and judging by Zimmer face, so did he.

I think he’s right in that these guys on defense have been together so long that they’re a little complacent. Rhodes definitely looked like he was coasting. Pass rush from the 1st team was also poor (Zimmer’s assessment).

All signs that Zimmer is losing or has already lost the team. Or maybe just a lackluster effort from Zimmer on that particular day, if you want to paint some lipstick on the pig. Either way, Zimmer needs to shoulder more of the blame for these anemic efforts that happen too frequently. What was the highlight of the game offensively? The guy who is in Zimmer's doghouse coming out and winning the game. And will he get rewarded for that by being let out of the doghouse and moving up the depth chart for Thursday's game? Of course not.

You have guys, specifically Rhodes, who are being forced to play in a meaningless game and risk injury, who have no real guarantees on their contracts after this year. Meanwhile some guys like Smith, Theilen and Joseph, sit and watch from the sidelines not risking injury.

If I am a CB as accomplished as Rhodes, I am probably checked out in that game as well.

[J. Kapp 11]

Yeah Zimmer said in his postgame that they didn’t gameplan or script any plays. That being said, he was pissed with the effort put out. He even said some guys on defense didn’t go into the huddle and thus didn’t even know the play call. That’s pretty infuriating, yeah it’s a preseason game but I really hate that lack of effort and judging by Zimmer face, so did he.

I think he’s right in that these guys on defense have been together so long that they’re a little complacent. Rhodes definitely looked like he was coasting. Pass rush from the 1st team was also poor (Zimmer’s assessment).

All signs that Zimmer is losing or has already lost the team. Or maybe just a lackluster effort from Zimmer on that particular day, if you want to paint some lipstick on the pig. Either way, Zimmer needs to shoulder more of the blame for these anemic efforts that happen too frequently. What was the highlight of the game offensively? The guy who is in Zimmer's doghouse coming out and winning the game. And will he get rewarded for that by being let out of the doghouse and moving up the depth chart for Thursday's game? Of course not.

What in the world? Lost the team? Where are you getting this stuff?

Man, I've seen some negativity on this board. But "lost the team" in the preseason? That takes the cake.

[J. Kapp 11]

Re: Effort in the preseason.

It's really difficult to tell if its lack of effort or an emphasis on staying healthy in a worthless game. Many think the preseason is too long as it is. Some players (starters) might just reflect that stance.

Cousins had an off night but that happens. Most know my stance on Cousins but I think most agree he's better than that game.

Totally agree.

This is why I hate preseason. And it's why I think Sean McVay has it right (although I hate to admit that McVay has ANYTHING right). The Rams don't play any starters in the preseason ... in any game. They use preseason solely as evaluation for the the rest of the guys. Which I think is probably smart. Which makes me think that two preseason games would be plenty.

Don't add more regular season games. Don't expand the playoffs (do we really want 7-9 teams in the tournament?). Just shorten the preseason.

[Purple Martin]

All signs that Zimmer is losing or has already lost the team. Or maybe just a lackluster effort from Zimmer on that particular day, if you want to paint some lipstick on the pig. Either way, Zimmer needs to shoulder more of the blame for these anemic efforts that happen too frequently. What was the highlight of the game offensively? The guy who is in Zimmer's doghouse coming out and winning the game. And will he get rewarded for that by being let out of the doghouse and moving up the depth chart for Thursday's game? Of course not.

What in the world? Lost the team? Where are you getting this stuff?

Man, I've seen some negativity on this board. But "lost the team" in the preseason? That takes the cake.

They've played equally lackluster at times in the regular season (Buffalo anyone?), and even the playoffs under Zimmer. Anyway I provided an alternative explanation of Zimmer having a bad day. When there are a few bad plays I blame the players but when the team effort is weak I blame the coach.

[VikingsVictorious]

All signs that Zimmer is losing or has already lost the team. Or maybe just a lackluster effort from Zimmer on that particular day, if you want to paint some lipstick on the pig. Either way, Zimmer needs to shoulder more of the blame for these anemic efforts that happen too frequently. What was the highlight of the game offensively? The guy who is in Zimmer's doghouse coming out and winning the game. And will he get rewarded for that by being let out of the doghouse and moving up the depth chart for Thursday's game? Of course not.

You have guys, specifically Rhodes, who are being forced to play in a meaningless game and risk injury, who have no real guarantees on their contracts after this year. Meanwhile some guys like Smith, Theilen and Joseph, sit and watch from the sidelines not risking injury.

If I am a CB as accomplished as Rhodes, I am probably checked out in that game as well.

Great athletes are never checked out. If you would check out over that it is one of the reasons you aren't a great athlete. If Rhodes gets checked out over that I've just lost a lot of respect for him, however until that is proven I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Rhodes Closed]

What in the world? Lost the team? Where are you getting this stuff?

Man, I've seen some negativity on this board. But "lost the team" in the preseason? That takes the cake.

They've played equally lackluster at times in the regular season (Buffalo anyone?), and even the playoffs under Zimmer. Anyway I provided an alternative explanation of Zimmer having a bad day. When there are a few bad plays I blame the players but when the team effort is weak I blame the coach.

Oof da mate. The team tries to stay healthy as a whole and you go straight to "Zimmer lost the team. It's all over! Pandemic in the streets! Ragnarok is happening!"

So are you more vocal when the Vikings are doing well or when they are doing bad, asking for a friend.

[VikingLord]

Yeah Zimmer said in his postgame that they didn’t gameplan or script any plays. That being said, he was pissed with the effort put out. He even said some guys on defense didn’t go into the huddle and thus didn’t even know the play call. That’s pretty infuriating, yeah it’s a preseason game but I really hate that lack of effort and judging by Zimmer face, so did he.

I think he’s right in that these guys on defense have been together so long that they’re a little complacent. Rhodes definitely looked like he was coasting. Pass rush from the 1st team was also poor (Zimmer’s assessment).

I'm not taking the side of the players here, but Zimmer seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth. On the one hand, he seems to diminish the importance of the preseason, while on the other, he's upset if the starters aren't playing hard. Personally, I see no reason for even trotting the established vets onto the field in the preseason unless they need the reps for some reason. Why risk injury? A guy like Xavier Rhodes really doesn't need reps, does he? Do defensive ends like Daniels and Griffin really need to go all-out to get meaningless sacks in the preseason? Maybe if they have some new moves to work on, or if the defensive line is going to rush the passer differently, but really, why take any risks with players you're going to need when the games start to count and who have a well-established track record with the team?

What is the point of the preseason? To win games? To see vets who are facing a long season put it all on the line and risk injuries trying to break up meaningless passes or notch meaningless sacks?

Or is it to plumb the team's depth, to see what rookies and other players who aren't established can do and what roles they can fill regardless of the game's score?

Don't get me wrong - the players are paid to do this and they're professionals, and Zimmer and the fans have every right to expect them to give sincere effort when they're out on the field in any game, but that begs the question about the motivation for putting them out there to begin with. I would say that if those expectations and motivations are clear between player and coach, effort should not be a question mark. If they aren't, well, that's when you might see the disconnect Zimmer noted in his press conference.

I don't think Zimmer has lost the team or anything, but there is a communication issue between the coaches and players. Luckily, the 2019 Vikings still have time to button that up before the games start to count.

[J. Kapp 11]

Yeah Zimmer said in his postgame that they didn’t gameplan or script any plays. That being said, he was pissed with the effort put out. He even said some guys on defense didn’t go into the huddle and thus didn’t even know the play call. That’s pretty infuriating, yeah it’s a preseason game but I really hate that lack of effort and judging by Zimmer face, so did he.

I think he’s right in that these guys on defense have been together so long that they’re a little complacent. Rhodes definitely looked like he was coasting. Pass rush from the 1st team was also poor (Zimmer’s assessment).

I'm not taking the side of the players here, but Zimmer seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth. On the one hand, he seems to diminish the importance of the preseason, while on the other, he's upset if the starters aren't playing hard. Personally, I see no reason for even trotting the established vets onto the field in the preseason unless they need the reps for some reason. Why risk injury? A guy like Xavier Rhodes really doesn't need reps, does he? Do defensive ends like Daniels and Griffin really need to go all-out to get meaningless sacks in the preseason? Maybe if they have some new moves to work on, or if the defensive line is going to rush the passer differently, but really, why take any risks with players you're going to need when the games start to count and who have a well-established track record with the team?

What is the point of the preseason? To win games? To see vets who are facing a long season put it all on the line and risk injuries trying to break up meaningless passes or notch meaningless sacks?

Or is it to plumb the team's depth, to see what rookies and other players who aren't established can do and what roles they can fill regardless of the game's score?

Don't get me wrong - the players are paid to do this and they're professionals, and Zimmer and the fans have every right to expect them to give sincere effort when they're out on the field in any game, but that begs the question about the motivation for putting them out there to begin with. I would say that if those expectations and motivations are clear between player and coach, effort should not be a question mark. If they aren't, well, that's when you might see the disconnect Zimmer noted in his press conference.

I don't think Zimmer has lost the team or anything, but there is a communication issue between the coaches and players. Luckily, the 2019 Vikings still have time to button that up before the games start to count.

I don't know about any loss of communication, but I'll agree with the premise behind the whole "what's the point of the preseason?" question. Again, I go back to Sean McVay, who plays no starters at all in the preseason. I honestly wish we'd do that. I think about the near injury to Alexander Mattison against Seattle, and it makes me want to throw up. Look at Lamar Miller in Houston ... gone for the season, and for what?

Let's get done with this charade in Buffalo and get on with the real football season.

[J. Kapp 11]

What in the world? Lost the team? Where are you getting this stuff?

Man, I've seen some negativity on this board. But "lost the team" in the preseason? That takes the cake.

They've played equally lackluster at times in the regular season (Buffalo anyone?), and even the playoffs under Zimmer. Anyway I provided an alternative explanation of Zimmer having a bad day. When there are a few bad plays I blame the players but when the team effort is weak I blame the coach.

No, you didn't offer an alternate explanation. "Lipstick on a pig" doesn't qualify as anything other than sarcasm.

Against the Cardinals, a lot of individual players missed assignments, dropped passes, missed blocks, overthrew passes and lined up incorrectly. It wasn't just Cousins, and it wasn't Zimmer losing the team. If anything, it was just August.

And if I recall correctly, the Vikings led the Eagles two years ago before midnight struck and Case Keenum turned back into an ugly stepsister. Plus, Philly was pretty good. They scored 41 against New England in the Super Bowl and gained 538 total yards ... I don't see anybody claiming Bill Belichick lost the Patriots.

[Pondering Her Percy]

All signs that Zimmer is losing or has already lost the team. Or maybe just a lackluster effort from Zimmer on that particular day, if you want to paint some lipstick on the pig. Either way, Zimmer needs to shoulder more of the blame for these anemic efforts that happen too frequently. What was the highlight of the game offensively? The guy who is in Zimmer's doghouse coming out and winning the game. And will he get rewarded for that by being let out of the doghouse and moving up the depth chart for Thursday's game? Of course not.

What in the world? Lost the team? Where are you getting this stuff?

Man, I've seen some negativity on this board. But "lost the team" in the preseason? That takes the cake.

Lol my thoughts exactly Kapp

[S197]

I don’t want to read too much into a preseason game either but Zimmer clearly had expectations that weren’t met and that should mean something. FWIW Harry didn’t play because of an infection, Linval is recovering from surgery, and Thielen had soreness from something undisclosed. All easily play in a real game but had reasons to sit out. Seems all the starters that were 100% played.