5 non CB / non WR prospects @ 23

[CharVike]

Char.. Torrence is a plug and play LG. I would be ecstatic if we took him. I just wonder though.... We need, imo, to trade down a few picks, pick up some picks and solidify the interior OL and defense with youth. If it was possible to get JMS at C and a future LG... Not to mention numerous defensive players, the draft is a success.
Having been all about this time of the year, I hope to accumulate a bunch of 3rd rd picks. A defense with Asamoah, Dorian Williams and another LB like Ivan Pace, Jack Campbell, Trenton Simpson, or Darryl Henley would be incredible for the next 4-5 years. Add a couple DBs and this makeover is in full effect while still very competitive right now

Our GM needs to get to work and get a 2nd round pick and another 3rd. Campbell and Simpson are nice players. They will be gone before the 3rd. I hate trading down unless you get great value. I think we made a bad trade last year. We should have the Lions 1st round pick. That's water under the bridge.

[CharVike]

Give me CJ Stroud all day !!!

Btw, Tanner McKee sux

I like McKee. He has a live arm, is smart and great size. He didn't have the flash stats. Not too many 60 to 0 games. But Stanford don't have a powerhouse team either. Most completions took accuracy because guys weren't running free. They don't run free in the NFL either.

[IIsweet]

Hard pass for me Char. I watched McKee highlights and also his performance at the combine. Not impressed at all.

[CharVike]

Hard pass for me Char. I watched McKee highlights and also his performance at the combine. Not impressed at all.

That's another good thing about the draft we all have opinions. McKee does look awful at times almost like he has no idea how to play the position. Then I see a guy like Stroud who torn up Toledo with 5 TD passes and 77 points but then looked like crap against Michigan who has a team. Only 3 points the entire 2nd half and 2 ints. That's folding big time at home. That don't work for me at all. Most ignore that game for some reason. But I know zero about college ball and find it boring as hell. I don't watch it. I just look at the prospects. The only reason I knew about McKee was a mock that had us drafting him round 1. Basically because our GM likes smart players. So I took a look. Let's face it most if not all of these QBs will amount to nothing. Finding the one that has a chance is beyond hard and almost impossible to figure out.

[VikingLord]

Interesting article worth reading:
https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/202 ... irst-round

Just watched some tape for Arkansas LB Drew Sanders. That kid is a baller and would make us instantly better on D. Paired w/ Asamoah we would go from slow and soft in the middle to fast and intimidating.

Thoughts on any of these prospects?

Thanks for posting that Texas. I've been looking at a lot of potential options at #23 over the last month or so, and this is an interesting list of possible picks there. Most mocks seem to have the Vikings focus on CB or WR because those are the positions of greatest immediate need on the team, but I think it is worth pointing out that both positions are pretty deep this year. While the Vikings lack a 2nd round pick, I could easily see KAM trading back from #23 to get into the first half of the 2nd and maybe first half of the 3rd and still getting three good prospects that fill both the immediate needs as well as maybe an area of concern like center or LB. He could also stay pat at #23, but based on what he demonstrated last year I think another trade back is pretty likely unless a top talent falls to #23, and even then I could see KAM still justify a trade back if he got enough in return.

Now for the prospects on the list in the article:

Kancey - I am totally sold on Kancey. He gets knocked for being undersized, but so did John Randle and we know how that turned out. Kancey is a lot like Randle in that he brings bottomless energy to the field and is so relentless and athletic that it takes a lot to counter him. If Kancey were bigger he'd be gone in the first 10 picks easy as his numbers and tape speak for themselves. If he's there at #23 he'd be very hard to pass up.

Smith - I'm less sold on Smith (by a country mile, in fact). He is smallish for an edge player, and while he flashes at times and certainly has the physical makeup to be an impact edge rusher, his college production didn't match his physical potential IMHO, plus I'm really concerned he is going to be a one trick pony as a pro as I'm not sure he can hold up against the run. He just hasn't demonstrated enough to justify #23, or even a first round selection from where I sit. Smith in the middle of the 2nd would be fine.

Van Ness - Intriguing is the word that best describes Van Ness. He was very productive on the field. He is very strong and very athletic as well and he is fundamentally solid. If you're looking for a player who can anchor one end of your defensive line and you can just count on him to play the position the way it needs to be played, Van Ness is an easy choice in my view. My only concern with Van Ness is he's a big guy (6'5", 270 pounds), so maybe he's not an ideal fit for a 3-4, but I think he's athletic enough to pull it off and would not be upset if the Vikings selected him at #23.

Sanders - Some players just pop out when watching highlights and Sanders is one of those players. He has all the attributes you want in the middle of your 2nd level of defense, and it looks like he can get bigger and stronger. With that said, he played on a great team with a lot of talent around him and he only played at a high level for one year. Neither are knocks on him as an individual player or prospect, but more just caution signs at #23 where you ideally want the best overall prospect with the fewest unknowns or risks. Sanders has a few more of those than I'd prefer that high in the draft, but with the potential he's displayed so far I'd still be excited if the Vikings took him.

Schmitz - Man, center is an area of the OL I would really like to see improved. Bradbury is clearly not the long term answer there and I don't know how many more times I can stomach watching a DT duck walk the center back into the QB or blow up an interior run play. Schmitz would add the size, college pedigree and leadership and intelligence that would likely make him a reliable starting center for the next 10 years. With that said, this year's draft has a few good center prospects coming out that also have a very good chance of becoming reliable starting pro centers for the next 10 years. It's not a large, deep center class, but there are a few I could get excited about and who might last as late as the 4th as interior OL players tend to slide. I also think it will be tough to use #23 on a center given some of the CB and WR prospects who will be on the board at that spot. In the great scheme of things, center probably isn't a position of such great need where the prospect value would justify using #23 on it this year. With that said, if the Vikings went with a center at #23, Schmitz would be a great choice. If KAM trades back into the mid-2nd Schmitz would be a great choice there.

All things considered, I think the odds of KAM trading back into the 2nd and trying to pick up another 3rd or 4th rounder is most likely.

[Texas Vike]

Interesting article worth reading:
https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/202 ... irst-round

Just watched some tape for Arkansas LB Drew Sanders. That kid is a baller and would make us instantly better on D. Paired w/ Asamoah we would go from slow and soft in the middle to fast and intimidating.

Thoughts on any of these prospects?

Thanks for posting that Texas. I've been looking at a lot of potential options at #23 over the last month or so, and this is an interesting list of possible picks there. Most mocks seem to have the Vikings focus on CB or WR because those are the positions of greatest immediate need on the team, but I think it is worth pointing out that both positions are pretty deep this year. While the Vikings lack a 2nd round pick, I could easily see KAM trading back from #23 to get into the first half of the 2nd and maybe first half of the 3rd and still getting three good prospects that fill both the immediate needs as well as maybe an area of concern like center or LB. He could also stay pat at #23, but based on what he demonstrated last year I think another trade back is pretty likely unless a top talent falls to #23, and even then I could see KAM still justify a trade back if he got enough in return.

Now for the prospects on the list in the article:

Kancey - I am totally sold on Kancey. He gets knocked for being undersized, but so did John Randle and we know how that turned out. Kancey is a lot like Randle in that he brings bottomless energy to the field and is so relentless and athletic that it takes a lot to counter him. If Kancey were bigger he'd be gone in the first 10 picks easy as his numbers and tape speak for themselves. If he's there at #23 he'd be very hard to pass up.

Smith - I'm less sold on Smith (by a country mile, in fact). He is smallish for an edge player, and while he flashes at times and certainly has the physical makeup to be an impact edge rusher, his college production didn't match his physical potential IMHO, plus I'm really concerned he is going to be a one trick pony as a pro as I'm not sure he can hold up against the run. He just hasn't demonstrated enough to justify #23, or even a first round selection from where I sit. Smith in the middle of the 2nd would be fine.

Van Ness - Intriguing is the word that best describes Van Ness. He was very productive on the field. He is very strong and very athletic as well and he is fundamentally solid. If you're looking for a player who can anchor one end of your defensive line and you can just count on him to play the position the way it needs to be played, Van Ness is an easy choice in my view. My only concern with Van Ness is he's a big guy (6'5", 270 pounds), so maybe he's not an ideal fit for a 3-4, but I think he's athletic enough to pull it off and would not be upset if the Vikings selected him at #23.

Sanders - Some players just pop out when watching highlights and Sanders is one of those players. He has all the attributes you want in the middle of your 2nd level of defense, and it looks like he can get bigger and stronger. With that said, he played on a great team with a lot of talent around him and he only played at a high level for one year. Neither are knocks on him as an individual player or prospect, but more just caution signs at #23 where you ideally want the best overall prospect with the fewest unknowns or risks. Sanders has a few more of those than I'd prefer that high in the draft, but with the potential he's displayed so far I'd still be excited if the Vikings took him.

Schmitz - Man, center is an area of the OL I would really like to see improved. Bradbury is clearly not the long term answer there and I don't know how many more times I can stomach watching a DT duck walk the center back into the QB or blow up an interior run play. Schmitz would add the size, college pedigree and leadership and intelligence that would likely make him a reliable starting center for the next 10 years. With that said, this year's draft has a few good center prospects coming out that also have a very good chance of becoming reliable starting pro centers for the next 10 years. It's not a large, deep center class, but there are a few I could get excited about and who might last as late as the 4th as interior OL players tend to slide. I also think it will be tough to use #23 on a center given some of the CB and WR prospects who will be on the board at that spot. In the great scheme of things, center probably isn't a position of such great need where the prospect value would justify using #23 on it this year. With that said, if the Vikings went with a center at #23, Schmitz would be a great choice. If KAM trades back into the mid-2nd Schmitz would be a great choice there.

All things considered, I think the odds of KAM trading back into the 2nd and trying to pick up another 3rd or 4th rounder is most likely.

Excellent breakdown of your view of these prospects. I enjoyed reading your thoughts. This was the exact kind of post I was hoping would come in this thread!

Out of curiosity: do you watch a lot of college FB? Or do you devote a lot of time to watching tape in this pre-draft period?

I watch a fair bit of Big 12 FB, and then the playoffs, but even so I don't feel like notice any player beyond the obvious ballers, .

[VikingLord]

Out of curiosity: do you watch a lot of college FB? Or do you devote a lot of time to watching tape in this pre-draft period?

I watch a fair bit of Big 12 FB, and then the playoffs, but even so I don't feel like notice any player beyond the obvious ballers, .

Actually, I don't watch many college games. Usually when the season is over for the Vikings I start looking at mock drafts for the upcoming draft across a wide range of publicly available sites, visit sites that discuss players and their prospects (Walterfootball is one of my favorites for that), and run through various mock draft simulators to start to see trends on where players are going at various points in those mocks. Many of them also provide rundowns on prospects so you can read more about them and where they have been projected to go over time. There is also a bunch of great draft profile evals by various folks on YouTube where they break the players down in detail which is very helpful especially for top prospects. They discuss strengths and weaknesses for different prospects and back it with video from the player's college games to illustrate what they're talking about. The better ones also compare the player to previous prospects at the same position which gives a pretty accurate (in my experience) indicator of the pro ceiling for that player. These are also a great place to learn about sleeper prospects who put some good stuff on tape but are overlooked for one reason or another.

That tends to give a pretty good picture about at least the upper half of the draft as it is likely to play out, and more specifically, as it is likely to play out around where the Vikings are slotted to pick absent any trades. Since some of the mock draft simulators allow for trades you can also experiment with drafting at virtually any spot in the draft which gives a better idea of prospects that are likely to be available at other spots, or you can also draft as a different team and see how things shake out.

Thinking about the 5 non CB prospects on that list, I'd still take one not on that list if he's available, and that would be Bijan Robinson. That would not be a popular pick I think among the Vikings Faithful, but Robinson has no business sliding anywhere near #23. He's a top 5 talent who will instantly upgrade the Vikings offense and help take pressure off both the OL and the QB with his ability to create both as a runner and receiver. He will force defenses to specially account for him or pay the price. The Vikings won't have to upgrade at WR or as much along the OL with a player like that, and they also don't need to overpay at RB to get great production at the position. Robinson is a home run at #23 who will instantly pay off next year and for his entire rookie contract, plus he's durable. He didn't make that list but based on what I'm seeing he should have as there is a good chance he makes it to #23.

[Texas Vike]

Out of curiosity: do you watch a lot of college FB? Or do you devote a lot of time to watching tape in this pre-draft period?

I watch a fair bit of Big 12 FB, and then the playoffs, but even so I don't feel like notice any player beyond the obvious ballers, .

Actually, I don't watch many college games. Usually when the season is over for the Vikings I start looking at mock drafts for the upcoming draft across a wide range of publicly available sites, visit sites that discuss players and their prospects (Walterfootball is one of my favorites for that), and run through various mock draft simulators to start to see trends on where players are going at various points in those mocks. Many of them also provide rundowns on prospects so you can read more about them and where they have been projected to go over time. There is also a bunch of great draft profile evals by various folks on YouTube where they break the players down in detail which is very helpful especially for top prospects. They discuss strengths and weaknesses for different prospects and back it with video from the player's college games to illustrate what they're talking about. The better ones also compare the player to previous prospects at the same position which gives a pretty accurate (in my experience) indicator of the pro ceiling for that player. These are also a great place to learn about sleeper prospects who put some good stuff on tape but are overlooked for one reason or another.

That tends to give a pretty good picture about at least the upper half of the draft as it is likely to play out, and more specifically, as it is likely to play out around where the Vikings are slotted to pick absent any trades. Since some of the mock draft simulators allow for trades you can also experiment with drafting at virtually any spot in the draft which gives a better idea of prospects that are likely to be available at other spots, or you can also draft as a different team and see how things shake out.

Thinking about the 5 non CB prospects on that list, I'd still take one not on that list if he's available, and that would be Bijan Robinson. That would not be a popular pick I think among the Vikings Faithful, but Robinson has no business sliding anywhere near #23. He's a top 5 talent who will instantly upgrade the Vikings offense and help take pressure off both the OL and the QB with his ability to create both as a runner and receiver. He will force defenses to specially account for him or pay the price. The Vikings won't have to upgrade at WR or as much along the OL with a player like that, and they also don't need to overpay at RB to get great production at the position. Robinson is a home run at #23 who will instantly pay off next year and for his entire rookie contract, plus he's durable. He didn't make that list but based on what I'm seeing he should have as there is a good chance he makes it to #23.

As a Longhorn, I love Bijan and am very familiar with his abilities. Two reasons I don't think the Vikings draft him: 1) I don't think he makes it to 23, (and I don't think we'll trade up for him) 2) I am not convinced that KOC views the RB as an essential component of his offense, at least not enough to justify taking one at #23 when there are so many other needs on this team. But if the Vikings surprise me and draft Bijan, I'll be happy with that choice.

Edit to add: If Kwesi stays @23 and decides to go offense, a much more likely choice, IMO, is Jaxon Smith-Njigba. I hear that Thielen and the FO have different impressions of his abilities at this stage of his career and therefore both what money and role in the offense he deserves. I see him getting cut today or tomorrow. JSN would be a huge upgrade at WR2 and would take major pressure off of JJ.

[VikingLord]

Edit to add: If Kwesi stays @23 and decides to go offense, a much more likely choice, IMO, is Jaxon Smith-Njigba. I hear that Thielen and the FO have different impressions of his abilities at this stage of his career and therefore both what money and role in the offense he deserves. I see him getting cut today or tomorrow. JSN would be a huge upgrade at WR2 and would take major pressure off of JJ.

I definitely could see them go with Smith-Njigba at #23, although I am very worried at how little he played his last year in college due to his injury. Risk-reward would be acceptable for him though, and I think he'd be a good complement to JJ.

Another WR prospect who I really like is Rashee Rice out of Southern Methodist. He's the same size as S-N, just about as fast, and just as productive. He's flying under the radar in a relatively deep WR class, which means he's likely to still be around in the 3rd or even early 4th, but I think he's going to turn into a very good pro.

[Texas Vike]

Edit to add: If Kwesi stays @23 and decides to go offense, a much more likely choice, IMO, is Jaxon Smith-Njigba. I hear that Thielen and the FO have different impressions of his abilities at this stage of his career and therefore both what money and role in the offense he deserves. I see him getting cut today or tomorrow. JSN would be a huge upgrade at WR2 and would take major pressure off of JJ.

I definitely could see them go with Smith-Njigba at #23, although I am very worried at how little he played his last year in college due to his injury. Risk-reward would be acceptable for him though, and I think he'd be a good complement to JJ.

Another WR prospect who I really like is Rashee Rice out of Southern Methodist. He's the same size as S-N, just about as fast, and just as productive. He's flying under the radar in a relatively deep WR class, which means he's likely to still be around in the 3rd or even early 4th, but I think he's going to turn into a very good pro.

I ALWAYS think SMU WRs are going to be sneaky good picks (Courtland Sutton, Proche), but they haven't done much in the NFL. Maybe the third time is the charm?

[J. Kapp 11]

Honestly, there aren’t many receivers in this year’s draft that I’d go crazy over.

Smith-Njigba didn’t run the 40 at the combine, which tells me his camp anticipated it would be slow. Rice runs 4.51. I feel like we need speed opposite Jefferson.

I think I’d rather see what it would take to sign DJ Chark.

[CharVike]

Give me CJ Stroud all day !!!

Btw, Tanner McKee sux

I watched the highlights of Stroud versus Georgia and I will give the kid a ton of praise. Georgia was pressuring him relentlessly and the kid actually was able to avoid the rush and make some throws. That's not easy. He was sacked a few times but it should have been many times. When he did have a clean pocket he tore that defense up. It was easy. He has a nice arm and can throw any pass in the book. He's not a one look and go guy either. His head moves around looking for guys. McKee isn't on the same planet as this guy just from a physical stand point. That's why one is a top 5 and the other is a can go anywhere player.

[Pep2Moss]

posting this here as well as the QB thread

https://www.drafttek.com/2023-NFL-Mock- ... und-1b.asp