Let's Make Another Hockenson-Type Trade!

[VikingLord]

Is going all in on 2023 the right move though? The defense will almost certainly be terrible again next season and the interior of the Oline will still be bad. Having 3 great receivers (Hock, JJ and Jeudy) and a bad Oline is the recipe Cincy has used to success (albeit with a better QB), but they also had a pretty good defense. You add Jeudy and this team becomes the type of team Denny trotted out each season. Fun to watch in the regular season, but no real shot in the postseason.

With all the issues the defense had last year I think any major FA investments on offense are chasing fools gold.

If the draft offers up value at #23 at WR, a smart GM doesn't turn that down, but no need to force something there either.

I suspect the Wilfs might want KAM and KOC to try to squeeze one more drop of juice out of the lemon that is the Kirk Cousins-led Vikings, but given the yawning gap between where the defense currently is and where it needs to be and the very unlikely prospect of significantly improving the offense to a point that can compensate for the lack of talent on defense, I hope that KAM and KOC start to make moves to prepare for longer-term competitiveness. That probably means taking a hit next year, but I'd rather do that than end up in Denny Green purgatory for the next several years.

[MossCarterJefferson]

I do not want Jeudy, he has too many drops and Vikings need their draft picks to draft defense since the defense is a problem, not the offense

Not sure where you’re getting the drop claim from. He’s nowhere near the top of the league in drops. He had near 1k yards in a terrible offense. Jerry Jeudy is a stud stuck in a bad offense

And this offense is going to 100% be in trouble without a legitimate number 2. When teams shut down JJ this year, we typically lost. I’m not sure how people aren’t seeing that. Towards the end of the year people figured us out and we don’t have another WR to take any pressure away from JJ. That’s a problem. A big one that is going to cause JJ to get frustrated when he’s not getting the ball or getting tripled all game.

I’m not sure who you’re expecting our #2 to be

Osborn? Nailor? A rookie?

[Pondering Her Percy]

Not sure where you’re getting the drop claim from. He’s nowhere near the top of the league in drops. He had near 1k yards in a terrible offense. Jerry Jeudy is a stud stuck in a bad offense

And this offense is going to 100% be in trouble without a legitimate number 2. When teams shut down JJ this year, we typically lost. I’m not sure how people aren’t seeing that. Towards the end of the year people figured us out and we don’t have another WR to take any pressure away from JJ. That’s a problem. A big one that is going to cause JJ to get frustrated when he’s not getting the ball or getting tripled all game.

I’m not sure who you’re expecting our #2 to be

Osborn? Nailor? A rookie?

Relying on Jalen Nailor to be our #2 WR? Not sure why we would think that is a viable option right now. Osborn is nothing more than a reliable #3. He would be the only one with an outside shot but I dont see Osborn freeing up or helping JJ. As for a rookie, I mean I guess but you're the one saying we need to save our picks for the defense. So what round rookie are we going to make our #2? A 5th rounder?

I just dont see how any of those options make a viable #2 WR. The Bengals #2 is Tee Higgins. The Eagles have Devonta Smith. The Dolphins have Jaylen Waddle. And look how explosive their offenses are. Look how little Jamar Chase gets double teamed due to the other WRs on this team. Same goes for AJ Brown. Same goes for Tyreek Hill. A LEGITIMATE #2 keeps a defense honest when you have a WR as good as Jefferson, Chase, AJ Brown or Hill. A defense cant go and double or triple Jefferson when he has someone like Jeudy next to him that's going to burn that defense if they try that. Insert Higgins, Smith and Waddle into that same sentence. KJ Osborn isnt going to take defenders away from JJ. I can assure that Nailor isnt either. Maybe a 1st-2nd round rookie can but we dont even have a 2nd round pick.

Fans have to understand that if we dont put a legitimate option next to JJ, he's going to get frustrated and want out of here. Because his targets and/or catches are going to be down due to constant double and triple teams. Look at him against GB and then the Giants in the playoffs. Shut down and both games we lost. Yes we need defensive help, but trust me when I say this, we need #2 WR help just as bad because we currently do not have one.

[CharVike]

Is going all in on 2023 the right move though? The defense will almost certainly be terrible again next season and the interior of the Oline will still be bad. Having 3 great receivers (Hock, JJ and Jeudy) and a bad Oline is the recipe Cincy has used to success (albeit with a better QB), but they also had a pretty good defense. You add Jeudy and this team becomes the type of team Denny trotted out each season. Fun to watch in the regular season, but no real shot in the postseason.

With all the issues the defense had last year I think any major FA investments on offense are chasing fools gold.

If the draft offers up value at #23 at WR, a smart GM doesn't turn that down, but no need to force something there either.

I suspect the Wilfs might want KAM and KOC to try to squeeze one more drop of juice out of the lemon that is the Kirk Cousins-led Vikings, but given the yawning gap between where the defense currently is and where it needs to be and the very unlikely prospect of significantly improving the offense to a point that can compensate for the lack of talent on defense, I hope that KAM and KOC start to make moves to prepare for longer-term competitiveness. That probably means taking a hit next year, but I'd rather do that than end up in Denny Green purgatory for the next several years.

Longer-term competitiveness comes from drafting well. KAM's draft based on year one sucked. That won't work. During the Chief / Bengal champ game the announcers said the Chief's had 4 rookies in the secondary playing. See the difference? Of course Mahomes is an eventually HOF player he's a once in a lifetime guy but he does have players around him. Reid makes sure of that. He rebuilt that OL across the board in one off season. We sit here with a POS OL and just look and hope. That will never work. How many competitive teams are there? Can you call the Bills competitive. Playoffs and beat every year. KAM did that year 1 with a POS team. 49ers they make the playoffs every year and then dumped. We keep striking out when drafting QBs. Last year I heard how great Mond is and that he can do everything. Where is the bum?

[Pondering Her Percy]

Adding a great 2nd WR is absolutely a path to building a championship caliber team. I don't know if trading for that receiver is the right way of acquiring him though and would attempt to draft one with that 23rd overall pick.

Unlike with TE, WRs don't take multiple years to develop and you can draft a WR this season and have them contribute in a big way right away. It is also a position where it seems like you are just as likely to get a good one at pick 23 as you would at pick 10. Drafting one this year gives the Vikings 4 seasons of cheap play compared to just the one for Jeudy, and with how much WRs are making now, a rookie WR contract is almost as valuable as a QB rookie contract.

Of course, there is no guarantee that a WR worth a 1st round pick falls to the Vikings at 23, and if that happens then maybe you look at Jeudy to go all in on 2023, making a draft day trade similar to what the Eagles did last year.

Is going all in on 2023 the right move though? The defense will almost certainly be terrible again next season and the interior of the Oline will still be bad. Having 3 great receivers (Hock, JJ and Jeudy) and a bad Oline is the recipe Cincy has used to success (albeit with a better QB), but they also had a pretty good defense. You add Jeudy and this team becomes the type of team Denny trotted out each season. Fun to watch in the regular season, but no real shot in the postseason.

With Jeudy, technically we'd get 2 years before a big contract correct? This season and then his 5th year option season? I am not opposed to drafting a WR at 23 either. I just know we will have so many holes on defense that need filling as well.

In terms of the Cincy comparison, yes the OL could struggle. But I do know we will have 2 elite level tackles. Cleveland should be fine. The question is center and RG. Can Ingram make a leap in year 2. And then do we re-sign Bradbury or draft a center? Cincy's OL was bad yes, but I dont think ours is in the shambles that Cincy's once was. We dont have to build our OL from the ground up. Cincy had to do that.

I dont think trading for Jeudy is us going all in for 2023. I think that's us finding elite young players to build around. Jefferson, Hockenson, Darrisaw, possibly Jeudy, etc. That's our future. At least on the offensive side of the ball.

In terms of the defense, by no means are they going to be top 5 next year but I think removing many of your aging veterans off this roster, getting younger and faster, bringing in someone like Brian Flores or Ejiro Evero (aggressive DCs that blitz 30% of the time or more), our defense will be a fair amount better than this past year. Granted are we going to be missing some "instincts" from guys like Kendricks or Hicks, sure. But we're also going to be more aggressive and allow guys with speed to make plays (I'm assuming all of this obviously but I highly doubt they hire Donatell 2.0). Think about it, we were 31st in total defense this past year. I suppose it can get worse but I cant imagine it getting a whole lot worse than it was. Our only way is up at this point because they hit rock bottom last year.

[VikingLord]

Longer-term competitiveness comes from drafting well. KAM's draft based on year one sucked. That won't work. During the Chief / Bengal champ game the announcers said the Chief's had 4 rookies in the secondary playing. See the difference? Of course Mahomes is an eventually HOF player he's a once in a lifetime guy but he does have players around him. Reid makes sure of that. He rebuilt that OL across the board in one off season. We sit here with a POS OL and just look and hope. That will never work. How many competitive teams are there? Can you call the Bills competitive. Playoffs and beat every year. KAM did that year 1 with a POS team. 49ers they make the playoffs every year and then dumped. We keep striking out when drafting QBs. Last year I heard how great Mond is and that he can do everything. Where is the bum?

Last year's draft can't be declared a failure yet. In terms of immediate contribution from most of the rookie class it was, but that was due to injuries. The Chiefs, OTOH, might have gotten a little more than lucky to have so many first year contributors play so well for their defense this season. As bad as it was for the Vikings rookie class in terms of bad luck and lack of contribution, the polar opposite was the case for the Chiefs and their rookie class. I wouldn't count on either becoming a trend for either team.

Mond is with the Browns IIRC after he was picked up off waivers. Not sure where you heard Mond was great. A lot of posters on the board didn't like him much at all. I thought he showed some potential and I wasn't happy when the Vikings put him on waivers. As I understand it, KOC wanted to slip him onto the practice squad so he could develop him, but the Browns snagged him, and generally teams snag guys off waivers like that when they also see something worth passing up one of their own guys they'd otherwise keep on their own practice squad.

But if you want to talk about draft failures, that is an objective failure. Spielman used what, a 3rd rounder on Mond and he didn't even last his rookie deal with the Vikings. Those are objective draft failures where a guy is drafted and doesn't last his rookie deal for whatever reason. I get it that KOC and KAM didn't draft Mond and it's possible KOC wouldn't have drafted him, but it still stinks to spend a higher round pick on any player who not only doesn't contribute to the team that drafted him, but that likely won't ever contribute to that team due to being plucked off the waiver wire or outright released.

[CharVike]

Longer-term competitiveness comes from drafting well. KAM's draft based on year one sucked. That won't work. During the Chief / Bengal champ game the announcers said the Chief's had 4 rookies in the secondary playing. See the difference? Of course Mahomes is an eventually HOF player he's a once in a lifetime guy but he does have players around him. Reid makes sure of that. He rebuilt that OL across the board in one off season. We sit here with a POS OL and just look and hope. That will never work. How many competitive teams are there? Can you call the Bills competitive. Playoffs and beat every year. KAM did that year 1 with a POS team. 49ers they make the playoffs every year and then dumped. We keep striking out when drafting QBs. Last year I heard how great Mond is and that he can do everything. Where is the bum?

Last year's draft can't be declared a failure yet. In terms of immediate contribution from most of the rookie class it was, but that was due to injuries. The Chiefs, OTOH, might have gotten a little more than lucky to have so many first year contributors play so well for their defense this season. As bad as it was for the Vikings rookie class in terms of bad luck and lack of contribution, the polar opposite was the case for the Chiefs and their rookie class. I wouldn't count on either becoming a trend for either team.

Mond is with the Browns IIRC after he was picked up off waivers. Not sure where you heard Mond was great. A lot of posters on the board didn't like him much at all. I thought he showed some potential and I wasn't happy when the Vikings put him on waivers. As I understand it, KOC wanted to slip him onto the practice squad so he could develop him, but the Browns snagged him, and generally teams snag guys off waivers like that when they also see something worth passing up one of their own guys they'd otherwise keep on their own practice squad.

But if you want to talk about draft failures, that is an objective failure. Spielman used what, a 3rd rounder on Mond and he didn't even last his rookie deal with the Vikings. Those are objective draft failures where a guy is drafted and doesn't last his rookie deal for whatever reason. I get it that KOC and KAM didn't draft Mond and it's possible KOC wouldn't have drafted him, but it still stinks to spend a higher round pick on any player who not only doesn't contribute to the team that drafted him, but that likely won't ever contribute to that team due to being plucked off the waiver wire or outright released.

I said year one. The Chiefs seem to hit it right more times than not. They rebuilt there OL the entire 5 in one off season. We plug a guy in and wait. Then plug another in and wait.
See how lame that is? Just do it and be done. It's nothing magical. Pinhead Kewsi claims to be the smartest GM. Next year we wii see some of his year one moves. Our OL should be top shelf.

[Thaumaturgist]

Pinhead Kewsi claims to be the smartest GM.

Can you quit with the calling people names? I know you're not the only one, so I don't mean to single you out... You don't like him. You don't like his decisions. That's fine! But... For me, calling people pinheads really turns me off, and it makes me think that none of your argument has any validity. You're smart enough to get your point across without resorting to that.

Please consider it. Thanks!

[Texas Vike]

I do not want Jeudy, he has too many drops and Vikings need their draft picks to draft defense since the defense is a problem, not the offense

Not sure where you’re getting the drop claim from. He’s nowhere near the top of the league in drops. He had near 1k yards in a terrible offense. Jerry Jeudy is a stud stuck in a bad offense

And this offense is going to 100% be in trouble without a legitimate number 2. When teams shut down JJ this year, we typically lost. I’m not sure how people aren’t seeing that. Towards the end of the year people figured us out and we don’t have another WR to take any pressure away from JJ. That’s a problem. A big one that is going to cause JJ to get frustrated when he’s not getting the ball or getting tripled all game.

I’m not sure who you’re expecting our #2 to be

Jeudy is a stud. When he was healthy last season he was the lone shining star on an otherwise dud of an offense. I have a very hard time believing that Sean Payton would trade his best offensive asset away as his first move there. We do know that the Broncos were shopping Jeudy early in the season, but with a new coach who is also rumored to have taken on an essential coach/GM role, I just don't see it happening. Most likely scenario I see playing out is Kwesi trades #24 for a late first and another 3rd and we start to fill in some holes, including WR, C, DL, CB and LB. Whether they resign Bradbury or not is a HUGE decision. If you move on, they possibly look at the Gophers' Schmitz late in the 1st/ early 2nd.

[CharVike]

Pinhead Kewsi claims to be the smartest GM.

Can you quit with the calling people names? I know you're not the only one, so I don't mean to single you out... You don't like him. You don't like his decisions. That's fine! But... For me, calling people pinheads really turns me off, and it makes me think that none of your argument has any validity. You're smart enough to get your point across without resorting to that.

Please consider it. Thanks!

I won't do that any more. Unfortunately it's 2 more years at a minimum of the same old stuff. In our conference it's a year over year turnover to reach the Super Bowl. We have zero chance based on his decisions. We'll spend years trying to upgrade one position like G when it should get done now. It's not magic. Another off season spinning the wheels. Who knows when we will get a new DC. Who knows what the scheme will be unless KOC has made the decision already. The fire/hire should have been a snap of the finger deal. They knew the guy was out. One game didn't do it. That tells me there is no plan or vision.