Defense Going Forward

[Cliff]

People are complaining about Donatell a lot and I'm getting the impression people think if Donatell goes away the defense will just change to something completely different. The problem is KOC picked the scheme before he picked Donatell. He specifically brought in someone familiar with running it. In other words, KOC already had a particular defense in mind and brought in a person to help install it. I don't think Donatell was brought on board and given free reign the way Zimmer seemed to work with offensive coordinators and we might be used to.

This is from before the season when Donatell was brought on:

O'Connell indicated on Thursday the Vikings would operate from a 3-4 base defense, though he added they'd mix in some four-man fronts and would spend plenty of time in nickel packages that have four linemen. He sought out the 65-year-old Donatell, he said, because of his time working for Vic Fangio in a defense that's been copied around the NFL, as teams seek to limit big plays with deep safeties and force impatient quarterbacks to throw interceptions into zone coverages.

"What really drew me to Ed Donatell was his ability to teach a system that I know is very hard to play against as a quarterback and as an offensive coach," O'Connell said. "I've experienced it in Los Angeles. There's definitely different forms of it going around the league right now, but obviously Ed's experience with Vic Fangio and his connection to that system is something that really drew me to him, and then obviously the person that he is was huge for me."

Donatell had input, no doubt, but my point is that firing Donatell doesn't necessarily make that scheme go away, just Donatell's version and defensive play-calling. To my mind, people had more problem with the scheme than any particular play call. I think the idea to limit big plays as priority #1 on defense is a KOC philosophy and pre-dates Donatell even being hired.

I'm not as hard on the defense as a lot of people. The conventional stats look bad but it obviously worked to some degree. The defense made several key stands in many games and the "bend don't break" philosophy did actually work on several occasions. The problem is, and the reason the stats are so screwy, is that when they broke they broke hard.

I think the way KOC wants a defense/team to operate is driven by some set of statistics that doesn't necessarily look good in the traditional sense. I'm a data guy and to my mind, given the length of an NFL season and all the variables within them, that many games playing out similarly is a trend rather than a coincidence. Even the game they lost against the Giants was shaping up to go to overtime and another potential one score victory.

I'm not saying the defense was great or anything, just that they were more middling than some stats say and at times looked very good. I'm not surprised there are growing pains. They've got a lot of players that are converting from Zimmer's double-a gap 4-3 stuff and I'm not sure there are two more different defensive philosophies currently in football.

So I'm conflicted about how I'll feel regarding the defense going forward or what I want to see. After ripping off the Band-Aid I definitely want to try and stick with some kind of 3-4 if that is KOC's vision for the team.

If KOC intends to field a similar defense next season (meaning one that seems to value limiting big plays above all else) who would you want to see run it? Which team (past or present) has a defense you might want to mimic?

Or would you like to see a complete rethink of defensive philosophy? I think that highly unlikely but in that case, who would you like to see come in?

[Maelstrom88]

If KOC has trouble scheming against this type of defense that speaks poorly about him. The defense is in a prevent most of the game so just hit all the guys in the first 10 yards for easy first downs.

I think the players got old fast and didn't have the speed necessary to cover one on one but Donatell completely misused Hunter last year. Hunter had 10 sacks despite him. The same thing happened in Denver with Von Miller. His production went down until he was traded to the Rams. It's a vanilla scheme that requires pro bowl players across the board to succeed. This video is imo very unflattering to the scheme. It basically says he needs elite cover guys and block shedders to be good. You're never going to have that. You have to be able to out scheme the opponent on certain plays with blitz packages etc.



As for the future of the defense we must go back to a 4-3. Hunter is still our best player and he plays at his best with his hand in the dirt. You tell him to go get the QB. Cap wise we will be stuck with Harry Smith another year but we need to let PP, Kendricks, Hicks, and Zadarius Smith go. I'd start Cine, Asamoah, Jones, and Booth next year and play 4-3 heavy Nickel on run downs with 3 safeties. Harry Smith would essentially be in the box at all times blitzing and covering TEs and RBs. The draft should feature trade downs and defense/offensive line picks exclusively. The one player I'd stick and draft would be Joey Porter Jr. if he's available in the first. Rex Ryan or Tony Oden the defensive assistant/ cornerbacks coach on the Jets would be my pick for the job. He did outstanding with Sauce Gardener this year. Past teams I'd like to mimic are the Rex Ryan Jets/Ravens and Jets from last year. I want Ryan's creativeness in a 4-3.

[halfgiz]

We didn’t have the cap space or the personal to run a 3/4 Defense last season...31st place sais it all.
I didn’t really see much adjustment during the season. Thought maybe they would go a little more hybrid.
Would like to see a younger upcoming DC. Can’t do worse than 31st.

[IIsweet]

I can see them continuing the 3-4 defensive change, if it's what KOC wants. I just think that we do not have the personnel right now. We need to add many more LB. Right now, Hunter is a 4-3 DE. That's it, not a OLB! I think we look to add 2-3 LB in draft and FA. I have mentioned 3 that I would love to have on many strands. They have to have length and be fast. Jack Campbell and Demarvion Overshown are my 2 favorites.

Another option that peaks my interest is resigning Petersen and then moving him to free safety. Let him be the Center Fielder of the defense. IF, he is interested in doing so. He immediately can tutor Cine and get him into the right coverage. Just an idea.

I think the plan is to run a 3-3-5 with 3 safeties. 1 of them being a hybrid. LB Owen Pappoe from Auburn could fill this role learning this defense. He's an undersized LB but can run with WRs.

In the end, I feel Donatell stays. We keep changing to the 3-4.

[CharVike]

Donatell is just a patsy so he stays. Fire KOC then. Even that 4th and 8 we ran there was 1 WR that went beyond the mark and of course it was JJ and the Giants had him bracketed and a safety coming over the top so there was only one option. Kirk screwed it up by throwing way short when he needed to throw to JJ no matter what the coverage was. The RB to the left was even further away than the TE. Theilen I'm sure one guy had him blanketed. Next year it will be the same stuff. Bend and eventually break D and a one read O. This HC is running everything. I'm sure he's the ST coordinator also. Two more years of this. Super Bowl has no chance. Thanks for clearing that up. Go back to Zim with a healthy Hunter and Z at RDE and Tomlinson inside he would attack the QB. He had SB hero Stafford begging to come out of that game when he sacked him 10 times. The HC said F you throw some dump offs when you get back out there. Clear your head. Never thought I'd want Zim back. Pound Cook into the grave again so you get the cap value. That's more exciting. Hope you can win 12 - 9 or something like that with a last second FG. Of course if Peg is in a slump we will lose 3 or 4 in a row.

[IIsweet]

Donatell is just a patsy so he stays. Fire KOC then. Even that 4th and 8 we ran there was 1 WR that went beyond the mark and of course it was JJ and the Giants had him bracketed and a safety coming over the top so there was only one option. Kirk screwed it up by throwing way short when he needed to throw to JJ no matter what the coverage was. The RB to the left was even further away than the TE. Theilen I'm sure one guy had him blanketed. Next year it will be the same stuff. Bend and eventually break D and a one read O. This HC is running everything. I'm sure he's the ST coordinator also. Two more years of this. Super Bowl has no chance. Thanks for clearing that up. Go back to Zim with a healthy Hunter and Z at RDE and Tomlinson inside he would attack the QB. He had SB hero Stafford begging to come out of that game when he sacked him 10 times. The HC said F you throw some dump offs when you get back out there. Clear your head. Never thought I'd want Zim back. Pound Cook into the grave again so you get the cap value. That's more exciting. Hope you can win 12 - 9 or something like that with a last second FG. Of course if Peg is in a slump we will lose 3 or 4 in a row.

Boooo... completely disagree with this entire take.
Actually KJ was breaking open in the middle of the field.
Cousins had to throw it because Ezra was being run over into Cousins. He didn't have a chance to check off JJ, which is where he was initially trying to go, but had 3 guys closing in on him. It is actually comical to see how bad Cleveland was being manhandled on the final play of the season.
KJ was the play. Btw, 3 WRs were beyond the mark. TJ blocked and never released. Cook was spied by a LBer. Watch the play. It will be painfully obvious!

[Maelstrom88]

Kurt Warner baffled by our defensive scheme.



Another good coordinator hire would be Flores.

[MossCarterJefferson]

Kurt Warner baffled by our defensive scheme.



Another good coordinator hire would be Flores.

I hope Vikings would pass on Flores, I really do not want Vikings to hire Flores who sued everyone after he got fired, it would cause a bad reputation on the Vikings if Flores gets hired

[CharVike]

Donatell is just a patsy so he stays. Fire KOC then. Even that 4th and 8 we ran there was 1 WR that went beyond the mark and of course it was JJ and the Giants had him bracketed and a safety coming over the top so there was only one option. Kirk screwed it up by throwing way short when he needed to throw to JJ no matter what the coverage was. The RB to the left was even further away than the TE. Theilen I'm sure one guy had him blanketed. Next year it will be the same stuff. Bend and eventually break D and a one read O. This HC is running everything. I'm sure he's the ST coordinator also. Two more years of this. Super Bowl has no chance. Thanks for clearing that up. Go back to Zim with a healthy Hunter and Z at RDE and Tomlinson inside he would attack the QB. He had SB hero Stafford begging to come out of that game when he sacked him 10 times. The HC said F you throw some dump offs when you get back out there. Clear your head. Never thought I'd want Zim back. Pound Cook into the grave again so you get the cap value. That's more exciting. Hope you can win 12 - 9 or something like that with a last second FG. Of course if Peg is in a slump we will lose 3 or 4 in a row.

Boooo... completely disagree with this entire take.
Actually KJ was breaking open in the middle of the field.
Cousins had to throw it because Ezra was being run over into Cousins. He didn't have a chance to check off JJ, which is where he was initially trying to go, but had 3 guys closing in on him. It is actually comical to see how bad Cleveland was being manhandled on the final play of the season.
KJ was the play. Btw, 3 WRs were beyond the mark. TJ blocked and never released. Cook was spied by a LBer. Watch the play. It will be painfully obvious!

I saw KJ break over the middle was he open. Cousins said that's the one play he wanted back. He didn't say what he would have done. But our interior OL is bad. Cleveland played OT his whole life. Will he ever be a good G. Replaying something is easy. I watched it and he should have let JJ try and get it. Once he went that way there was nothing left because of the pressure. So he kept it in play. Perhaps KJ was the play. Anything but yards short would have been better. We couldn't stop them but it might have kept our drive alive.

[JJBreaksRecords]

KO doesnt have the balls to fire Ed. I trust KO less with the D than I even do with the O. I dont trust KO at this point. I dont trust him in the draft. But the Wilfs wont find another HC thats as good as KO is. But he has to stop play calling. He sucked at it. He seems a lot like Zimmer as HC to me. Zimmer was a great DC but was in over his head as HC. I hope the Wilfs dont give KO the amount of time to change HCs with Zimmer as he will if KO still looks like a rookie HC next year.

[kidfozzy.]

If Donatell was fired, it would have happened by now.
What long-term benefit would it serve a team if you play musical chairs w/ each d-coordinator hire and they don’t click?
The defensive veterans serve a net-negative going forward for the Vikes (Kendricks, Hicks, even PP7.) The lack of talent is what dooms MIN’s defense.

I’m not saying keep Donatell, but having a magical single-season Super Bowl-bound defense is about impossible.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Boooo... completely disagree with this entire take.
Actually KJ was breaking open in the middle of the field.
Cousins had to throw it because Ezra was being run over into Cousins. He didn't have a chance to check off JJ, which is where he was initially trying to go, but had 3 guys closing in on him. It is actually comical to see how bad Cleveland was being manhandled on the final play of the season.
KJ was the play. Btw, 3 WRs were beyond the mark. TJ blocked and never released. Cook was spied by a LBer. Watch the play. It will be painfully obvious!

I saw KJ break over the middle was he open. Cousins said that's the one play he wanted back. He didn't say what he would have done. But our interior OL is bad. Cleveland played OT his whole life. Will he ever be a good G. Replaying something is easy. I watched it and he should have let JJ try and get it. Once he went that way there was nothing left because of the pressure. So he kept it in play. Perhaps KJ was the play. Anything but yards short would have been better. We couldn't stop them but it might have kept our drive alive.

Cleveland was the #11 guard in the league this year according to PFF. However his pass blocking wasn’t great. His run blocking was superb. I’m way more worried about ingram than I am Cleveland though

[Pondering Her Percy]

KO doesnt have the balls to fire Ed. I trust KO less with the D than I even do with the O. I dont trust KO at this point. I dont trust him in the draft. But the Wilfs wont find another HC thats as good as KO is. But he has to stop play calling. He sucked at it. He seems a lot like Zimmer as HC to me. Zimmer was a great DC but was in over his head as HC. I hope the Wilfs dont give KO the amount of time to change HCs with Zimmer as he will if KO still looks like a rookie HC next year.

Must not have sucked at play calling too much given we were the 7th best offense in the nfl. Again you’re barking about a coach that went an unexpected 13-4 in his first season. Your argument carries zero weight right now

[Cliff]

KO doesnt have the balls to fire Ed. I trust KO less with the D than I even do with the O. I dont trust KO at this point. I dont trust him in the draft. But the Wilfs wont find another HC thats as good as KO is. But he has to stop play calling. He sucked at it. He seems a lot like Zimmer as HC to me. Zimmer was a great DC but was in over his head as HC. I hope the Wilfs dont give KO the amount of time to change HCs with Zimmer as he will if KO still looks like a rookie HC next year.

Must not have sucked at play calling too much given we were the 7th best offense in the nfl. Again you’re barking about a coach that went an unexpected 13-4 in his first season. Your argument carries zero weight right now

Right.

Beginning of the season:

"We'll be lucky to even win half of our games with new coaching and switching all of our schemes."

End of season, after 13 wins and a division title, but losing a close game in the playoffs:

"But we didn't win convincingly enough, see, I was right!"

[me4get]

KO doesnt have the balls to fire Ed. I trust KO less with the D than I even do with the O. I dont trust KO at this point. I dont trust him in the draft. But the Wilfs wont find another HC thats as good as KO is. But he has to stop play calling. He sucked at it. He seems a lot like Zimmer as HC to me. Zimmer was a great DC but was in over his head as HC. I hope the Wilfs dont give KO the amount of time to change HCs with Zimmer as he will if KO still looks like a rookie HC next year.

Guess He Does!!