Draft Day thread

[fiestavike]

First off if anyone took my posts as mocking, I apologize as that was never even close to my intent. My philosophy is have at it if you don't like the trade and you have it figured already as a bad trade. I don't have any issue with anyone here doing that.

However, there are other opinions out there.

I personally am not that hung up on trade charts to be the ultimate barometer of a GM. Especially considering I have zero knowledge of the draft board or thoughts from this group.

At some point they have to worry about actual players and not charts, and I just think (guess) they felt Cine was a top player that they wanted once the first two DB's were gone - and maybe even had him rated higher than Hamilton for what they want their D flexibility to be. Hamilton ran in the 4.7's on his pro day. That would be scary for sure for a regime wanting to make decisions based on metrics. In fact I would have been shocked if they took Hamilton.

I don't particularly like this trade, but I also don't think it's the end of things for this regime or team - or even a horrible trade. It's "meh" for me. And let's not paint this any other way, like there is a faction here "that loves this trade and if it doesn't work out well we'll be back to crucify". I have not seen anyone post that they love this trade. AT BEST it will take a few years to determine that anyway. But I can almost guarantee the first time Jameson Williams scores for DET we'll get dozens of posts here calling Kwesi an idiot. It's just the way it is. Let's just hope Cine runs him down a few times.

Should NFL players, coaches and GMs be evaluated on what they contribute to "on the field success"? Sure, yes, of course, that is the ultimate goal of this business. To put a team on the field to win games, and hopefully enough wins to end up on top. Do we need to evaluate the means they use to get there? Well, not if they prove they can be successful. How much grief is Belicheck taking for drafting the OL from Chattanooga that apparently wasn't on ANYONE'S first round board? Not much. He needed a guard, he'll make it work.

We have a first time GM and first time HC. I certainly did not expect they would hoodwink the entire league in their first draft or season. I expect mistakes along the way. Was this trade a mistake? Some have already made that determination but for me, only time will tell.

But in the meantime, the ultimate goal of an NFL GM should not be winning the annual Jimmy Johnson Contest, and I'm pretty sure right now Kwesi could care less what the charts (or experts) have to say. Maybe time will tell a different tale.

Would the 12 for the 32 straight up have been a bad trade?

[fiestavike]

the Vikings feel there’s value to be had in the depth of the draft from around picks 25 to 75.

The general premise I have no problem with, but 75 is a little too convenient to be believable with the vikings at 77. Whatta you bet the Lions views this draft as having value through the top 50 picks, and shazam, they moved up to 12 but still have two picks in the top 50 with the Vikings 2nd rounder coming back to them.

[VikingLord]

I want to talk about a common happening after drafts that happens with the fans of every team. When fans start off with a very negative perception of what their favorite team has done they start hearing all the wonderful things about the pick and watch the highlights and hear why the trade was good and they want to feel good again. They talk themselves into believing all the positive spin. I know this because I have done this on several occasions. Most of us are susceptible to this. Some of us may be immune, but those people are very much in the minority.

I've done that a lot, too, and am still tempted to do it more every year.

If a team wants to move up as far as the Lions did in the first round, I think its reasonable to play hardball, because worst case, you can always sit tight and make a pick if you don't get what you want. But KAM actually said the following in his post-draft presser yesterday https://www.vikings.com/news/kwesi-adof ... ft-day-two:

We really looked at is as, 'Hey, what is your outcome if you don't do this trade versus what is your outcome if you stay and pick?' Ultimately, the division thing does come into it. But also, 'Hey, they have to play the Minnesota Vikings and all the players we're going to get.' We're going to go from there. There's also the possibility that they have backups [as trade partners], right? So if we don't do the trade, there are odds they can do a trade anyway. You're always kind of factoring in many things that could happen. We did that, and we're happy with our decision.

(bold mine)

I mean, what??? Who cares if the Lions have backup trades arranged? Why would that even factor into KAM's decision-making? Either the trade is right for the Vikings and he gets what he needs to make the trade, or he doesn't and he stays and picks at #12.

Anyway, KAM so far has not impressed me at all. I hope KOC is a more astute coach than KAM is proving to be a GM.

[VikingsFan84]

Vikings traded their pick to Packers

[Bowhunting Viking]

Are we sure Spielman isn't still in the war room??????

[Maelstrom88]

Lmao Queso is the worst GM in the league.

[Pep2Moss]

They need to take Kwesi out in hand cuffs. He sucks

[VikingLord]

the Vikings feel there’s value to be had in the depth of the draft from around picks 25 to 75.

The general premise I have no problem with, but 75 is a little too convenient to be believable with the vikings at 77. Whatta you bet the Lions views this draft as having value through the top 50 picks, and shazam, they moved up to 12 but still have two picks in the top 50 with the Vikings 2nd rounder coming back to them.

Exactly. Where a team decides there is value is completely arbitrary. KAM thinks 25-75 is flat in terms of talent? That's his opinion, great, but he could be way off in that assessment for all anyone knows. This is even more true because KAM has no track record as a GM and nothing to base that opinion on that I am aware of. Maybe he went and back tested his evaluation process against past drafts somehow? Maybe he has some secret formula to assess the talent in a given draft class to arrive at that opinion? Or maybe he's just playing the odds similar to what Spielman did under the more-chances-is-better philosophy?

Whatever it is, the fact remains that all picks are not created equal. #12 is a premium spot that is earned through a long season of underachievement and suffering for players and fans alike. #32 is normally the spot where the Lombardi winner finds itself sitting. The gap between those two spots in the first round should be worth much more than moving 12 spots up in the 2nd and an early 3rd.

That's my opinion, and I think it holds pretty much regardless of whether the first 50 picks, or the first 75 picks, have value.

[S197]

Chicago Bears, come on down! You're the next contestant on "Ask Kwesi for literally anything!"

I actually hate this trade less than last night but good grief, the Packers...

[Tark]

What’s next…we bend over for the Bears?

[Foreman44]

Vikings traded their pick to Packers

What did we get. Crazy

[VikingLord]

Vikings traded their pick to Packers

Ugh.

#34 for #53 and #59 I believe.

High 2nd for two low 2nds this time. Value-wise, not terrible, but Packers used the pick to take a WR who might be the sleeper of this draft at the position.

Vikes still don't have a CB, either. The Lions got the best WR in this class when he's healthy, and the Packers might have gotten the next-best WR in the class.

KAM got picks, though...

[psjordan]

Didn't see that coming, 34 for 53 and 59 so the hated GB can get their WR? Does Kwesi think every player in this draft class is overrated? Holy cow this is gambling on top of gambling.

[VikingsVictorious]

Amazing how no NFL team has interest in Malik Willis.

[VikingsVictorious]

I’m going to go back to what I said before, even though it got me derided and mocked by VikingsVictorious.

KAM and company see the depth of this draft — NOT high-end talent — as the place where the most value is.

From Chad Graff at The Athletic:

While this draft has been discounted for its lack of premium talent, the Vikings feel there’s value to be had in the depth of the draft from around picks 25 to 75. The Vikings now have four selections in that range.

As for Lewis Cine:

The Vikings have a need at safety and even though they’re confident in second-year player Cam Bynum, they’re envisioning a dynamic group that could include having all three safeties on the field at the same time, perhaps as a way to combat the pass-happy tendencies of the league.

Cine is a do-it-all safety, too. He’s great at stepping up into the box and stopping the run. He makes tackles look effortless. He can cover ground, too, as evidenced by his 4.37-second 40-yard dash. It’s easy to envision him playing next to Harrison Smith for a couple of years and eventually becoming the stalwart Smith has been on the Vikings’ backend.

I bolded that sentence for the benefit of those who are so sure that Kyle Hamilton (4.59 in the 40, slowest safety at the combine) is miles better than Cine.

Bottom line: Laugh all you want. Gripe to your heart’s content. Feel free to groan about how this is Rick Spielman 2.0 and how the Vikings got fleeced based on a chart developed 30 years ago. But the truth you need to acknowledge is that KAM has a plan, and obviously that plan has been approved by ownership. You may hate the plan, but don’t be so naive as to think the entire Vikings staff simply spazzed out at the first damn phone call.

And if his plan pans out, there is a very real chance that the Vikings walk away after Friday night with four potential starters. If that happens, just remember the few of us on this board who told you so.

And if it turns out to be a disaster, I’ll admit it. Unlike so many others, I’m always willing to call it when I’m wrong.

I like Cine and I'm not a particular fan of Hamilton.