Draft Day thread

[Texas Vike]

Worthwhile read:

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/4/29 ... ta-vikings

[VikingsFan84]

Worthwhile read:

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/4/29 ... ta-vikings

So what happens with Bynum then?

[S197]

My biggest gripe with Rick wasn't that he would trade down but that he would give up a lot of these higher round picks for a bundle of late round picks, which almost never work out. I can kinda get behind the thought process that there's not a whole lot of differentiation between a 1st-3rd rounder or a "tier 1" and "tier 2" player. I just hope Kwesi doesn't go nuts today and tomorrow and end up with 10 picks, half of which don't even make it past training camp like Spielman.

If he does keep trading, I hope he at least gets some objective value in return.

I'm also not sure why the Wilfs dumped Spielman. KAM's player personnel moves thus far have been, to put it kindly, underwhelming.

Maybe KOC will make a big difference as head coach, but it's hard to objectively look at the Vikings right now and see reason to expect different results on the field this coming season. It's pretty much the same team from last year with a new head coach.

I believe they dumped him because he never learned from his errors. OL is a good example but QB and compiling a silly number of 7ths are others. Or panic trading high round picks. On the QB front, I mean having no contingency plan for any of our starting QBs going back to Favre. He would have his guy and proceed to have an old journeyman as backup and an UDFA as 3rd string. He took zero chances to upgrade the position unless absolutely necessary until he took Mond. But by then his bed was made.

[Pep2Moss]

Worthwhile read:

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/4/29 ... ta-vikings

The player they took is very good, The deal they made to get to that spot was God awful Just horrible value.

Hamilton and 46 for Cine, 34 and 66.

Terrible.

[Texas Vike]

Worthwhile read:

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/4/29 ... ta-vikings

So what happens with Bynum then?

Not sure. Sounds like Donatell's scheme might rely on three safeties frequently. Smith and Cine can both edge rush / play LB in certain situations. We'll see. But it's telling that they took Cine at 32. If they go with Booth at 34, it would be very interesting.

[psjordan]

First off if anyone took my posts as mocking, I apologize as that was never even close to my intent. My philosophy is have at it if you don't like the trade and you have it figured already as a bad trade. I don't have any issue with anyone here doing that.

However, there are other opinions out there.

I personally am not that hung up on trade charts to be the ultimate barometer of a GM. Especially considering I have zero knowledge of the draft board or thoughts from this group.

At some point they have to worry about actual players and not charts, and I just think (guess) they felt Cine was a top player that they wanted once the first two DB's were gone - and maybe even had him rated higher than Hamilton for what they want their D flexibility to be. Hamilton ran in the 4.7's on his pro day. That would be scary for sure for a regime wanting to make decisions based on metrics. In fact I would have been shocked if they took Hamilton.

I don't particularly like this trade, but I also don't think it's the end of things for this regime or team - or even a horrible trade. It's "meh" for me. And let's not paint this any other way, like there is a faction here "that loves this trade and if it doesn't work out well we'll be back to crucify". I have not seen anyone post that they love this trade. AT BEST it will take a few years to determine that anyway. But I can almost guarantee the first time Jameson Williams scores for DET we'll get dozens of posts here calling Kwesi an idiot. It's just the way it is. Let's just hope Cine runs him down a few times.

Should NFL players, coaches and GMs be evaluated on what they contribute to "on the field success"? Sure, yes, of course, that is the ultimate goal of this business. To put a team on the field to win games, and hopefully enough wins to end up on top. Do we need to evaluate the means they use to get there? Well, not if they prove they can be successful. How much grief is Belicheck taking for drafting the OL from Chattanooga that apparently wasn't on ANYONE'S first round board? Not much. He needed a guard, he'll make it work.

We have a first time GM and first time HC. I certainly did not expect they would hoodwink the entire league in their first draft or season. I expect mistakes along the way. Was this trade a mistake? Some have already made that determination but for me, only time will tell.

But in the meantime, the ultimate goal of an NFL GM should not be winning the annual Jimmy Johnson Contest, and I'm pretty sure right now Kwesi could care less what the charts (or experts) have to say. Maybe time will tell a different tale.

[VikingsVictorious]

If he does keep trading, I hope he at least gets some objective value in return.

I'm also not sure why the Wilfs dumped Spielman. KAM's player personnel moves thus far have been, to put it kindly, underwhelming.

Maybe KOC will make a big difference as head coach, but it's hard to objectively look at the Vikings right now and see reason to expect different results on the field this coming season. It's pretty much the same team from last year with a new head coach.

The Wilfs dumped Speilman because he keeps failing to address the offensive line

Spielman addressed the offensive line more than any other GM over the last 5 years. He just didn't do it successfully.

[VikingsVictorious]

Worthwhile read:

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/4/29 ... ta-vikings

The player they took is very good, The deal they made to get to that spot was God awful Just horrible value.

Hamilton and 46 for Cine, 34 and 66.

Terrible.

You mean Jordan Davis and 46.

[Pondering Her Percy]

It is an immediate need, Vikings do not have anyone good next to Harrison

It was a somewhat need. Most people considered CB to be a bigger need. I like Cine, but most had him as a 2nd round pick. The consensus is not that we got a steal.
Rick Spielman traded back last year not nearly as far and got two 3rd round picks thrown in without giving up a 2nd round pick.

But hey, 90% of this board wanted Spielman gone. Exactly why I said back then, be careful what you wish for. Spielman had his flaws, but there is zero chance in hell he makes that trade. He would’ve drafted Hamilton. He already said in a podcast that Hamilton was his favorite player in the draft. Again, I like Cine. But I want to throw up at the value we got in return of that trade

[VikingsVictorious]

I want to talk about a common happening after drafts that happens with the fans of every team. When fans start off with a very negative perception of what their favorite team has done they start hearing all the wonderful things about the pick and watch the highlights and hear why the trade was good and they want to feel good again. They talk themselves into believing all the positive spin. I know this because I have done this on several occasions. Most of us are susceptible to this. Some of us may be immune, but those people are very much in the minority.

[S197]

The Wilfs dumped Speilman because he keeps failing to address the offensive line

Spielman addressed the offensive line more than any other GM over the last 5 years. He just didn't do it successfully.

That’s even worse.

[VikingsVictorious]

Spielman addressed the offensive line more than any other GM over the last 5 years. He just didn't do it successfully.

That’s even worse.

It may be worse, but it's true. To say he didn't address the O Line couldn't be further from the truth.

[J. Kapp 11]

I’m going to go back to what I said before, even though it got me derided and mocked by VikingsVictorious.

KAM and company see the depth of this draft — NOT high-end talent — as the place where the most value is.

From Chad Graff at The Athletic:

While this draft has been discounted for its lack of premium talent, the Vikings feel there’s value to be had in the depth of the draft from around picks 25 to 75. The Vikings now have four selections in that range.

As for Lewis Cine:

The Vikings have a need at safety and even though they’re confident in second-year player Cam Bynum, they’re envisioning a dynamic group that could include having all three safeties on the field at the same time, perhaps as a way to combat the pass-happy tendencies of the league.

Cine is a do-it-all safety, too. He’s great at stepping up into the box and stopping the run. He makes tackles look effortless. He can cover ground, too, as evidenced by his 4.37-second 40-yard dash. It’s easy to envision him playing next to Harrison Smith for a couple of years and eventually becoming the stalwart Smith has been on the Vikings’ backend.

I bolded that sentence for the benefit of those who are so sure that Kyle Hamilton (4.59 in the 40, slowest safety at the combine) is miles better than Cine.

Bottom line: Laugh all you want. Gripe to your heart’s content. Feel free to groan about how this is Rick Spielman 2.0 and how the Vikings got fleeced based on a chart developed 30 years ago. But the truth you need to acknowledge is that KAM has a plan, and obviously that plan has been approved by ownership. You may hate the plan, but don’t be so naive as to think the entire Vikings staff simply spazzed out at the first damn phone call.

And if his plan pans out, there is a very real chance that the Vikings walk away after Friday night with four potential starters. If that happens, just remember the few of us on this board who told you so.

And if it turns out to be a disaster, I’ll admit it. Unlike so many others, I’m always willing to call it when I’m wrong.

[Cliff]

It was a somewhat need. Most people considered CB to be a bigger need. I like Cine, but most had him as a 2nd round pick. The consensus is not that we got a steal.
Rick Spielman traded back last year not nearly as far and got two 3rd round picks thrown in without giving up a 2nd round pick.

But hey, 90% of this board wanted Spielman gone. Exactly why I said back then, be careful what you wish for. Spielman had his flaws, but there is zero chance in hell he makes that trade. He would’ve drafted Hamilton. He already said in a podcast that Hamilton was his favorite player in the draft. Again, I like Cine. But I want to throw up at the value we got in return of that trade

We'll see what actually comes of the players hes picked before I'll "miss" Spielman.

Right now tho, I just looked up the 8 1st rounders picked by Spielman between 2013 and 2018 and I miss him less than ever.

[J. Kapp 11]

I want to talk about a common happening after drafts that happens with the fans of every team. When fans start off with a very negative perception of what their favorite team has done they start hearing all the wonderful things about the pick and watch the highlights and hear why the trade was good and they want to feel good again. They talk themselves into believing all the positive spin. I know this because I have done this on several occasions. Most of us are susceptible to this. Some of us may be immune, but those people are very much in the minority.

Or maybe, Dr. Phil, people look into actual scouting reports and find out that they really didn’t know anything about the player. That they aren’t the experts they thought they were. You should try it sometime.