Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer

[dead_poet]

Considering what a hostile work environment Kluwe was creating for his teammates and coaches it wouldn't be surprising for Priefer or any other player/coach to lose their temper and say something stupid.

From Kluwe's Deadspin letter:

Throughout the months of September, October, and November, Minnesota Vikings special-teams coordinator Mike Priefer would use homophobic language in my presence. He had not done so during minicamps or fall camp that year, nor had he done so during the 2011 season. He would ask me if I had written any letters defending "the gays" recently and denounce as disgusting the idea that two men would kiss, and he would constantly belittle or demean any idea of acceptance or tolerance. I tried to laugh these off while also responding with the notion that perhaps they were human beings who deserved to be treated as human beings. Mike Priefer also said on multiple occasions that I would wind up burning in hell with the gays, and that the only truth was Jesus Christ and the Bible. He said all this in a semi-joking tone, and I responded in kind, as I felt a yelling match with my coach over human rights would greatly diminish my chances of remaining employed. I felt uncomfortable each time Mike Priefer said these things. After all, he was directly responsible for reviewing my job performance, but I hoped that after the vote concluded in Minnesota his behavior would taper off and eventually stop.

Near the end of November, several teammates and I were walking into a specialist meeting with Coach Priefer. We were laughing over one of the recent articles I had written supporting same-sex marriage rights, and one of my teammates made a joking remark about me leading the Pride parade. As we sat down in our chairs, Mike Priefer, in one of the meanest voices I can ever recall hearing, said: "We should round up all the gays, send them to an island, and then nuke it until it glows." The room grew intensely quiet, and none of the players said a word for the rest of the meeting. The atmosphere was decidedly tense. I had never had an interaction that hostile with any of my teammates on this issue—some didn't agree with me, but our conversations were always civil and respectful. Afterward, several told me that what Mike Priefer had said was "messed up."

And yet Kluwe is the one creating a hostile work environment? That's...a unique perspective.

[dead_poet]

Oh dear, so someone expresses an opinion contrary to Kluwe's so he writes all of this stuff, unbelievable. I thought we were talking about tolerance.

That's exactly what he's fighting for: tolerance and equality. You're right, though, he's not being tolerant of someone else's intolerance. The jerk. Why did we even allow women to vote? We weren't being very tolerant to the views that only men should have that privilege.

[King James]

That's exactly what he's fighting for: tolerance and equality.

You're really buying into that lie?

[dead_poet]

You're really buying into that lie?

Why is that so difficult to believe?

[dead_poet]

Using logic like that, we might as well say Kluwe is writing this way because he's a racist and doesn't like African Americans.

Let's go ahead and not say that. I don't follow how you came to that conclusion. Nothing in his writing to the congressman was racist.

[dead_poet]

Worth the read:

http://time.com/2989808/chris-kluwe-kic ... t-vikings/

Why does Kluwe want the report to go public?

“For one, it corroborates my claims, obviously, or else they would have made it public by now,” says Kluwe. “And two, it shows the kind of atmosphere that could be allowed to happen if steps aren’t taken to correct that kind of culture. We want to make people aware that what they’re saying has consequences, and can be potentially hurtful to other people.” He also hopes the NFL can learn lessons. “Even though you are the NFL, you are still a business, and you are required to abide by the law,” Kluwe says. “You can’t say, just because this is football we don’t have to play by the same rules as everyone else, which I think is very important when you’re talking about a multi-billion-dollar-a-year industry that frequently takes public funds to construct stadiums and host events.”

In his Deadspin piece, Kluwe wrote, “If there’s one thing I hope to achieve from sharing this story, it’s to make sure that Mike Priefer never holds a coaching position again in the NFL.” Kluwe wants that one back.

“I was being too harsh there,” Kluwe says. “What I would like to see is coach Priefer suspended for a period of time, subject to the personal conduct policy — I mean, that’s something we all have to abide by — and then to get training and work with the LGBT groups to understand why what he did was wrong. Because that way, he can serve as a positive role model to other potential coaches or managers out there who might be thinking of doing the same thing he did.

[dead_poet]

You use an argument where you are accusing people of intolerance because they don't think like you. So, here is Chris Kluwe writing to a congressman in another state a profane letter, browbeating him because he doesn't have the same opinion as the intolerant Chris Kluwe.

You need to read that letter again. Kluwe is writing, largely, in defense of free speech. And also, again, in defense of equality.

...they won't even overthrow the government in an orgy of hedonistic debauchery because all of a sudden they have the same legal rights as the other 90 percent of our population—rights like Social Security benefits, child care tax credits, Family and Medical Leave to take care of loved ones, and COBRA healthcare for spouses and children. You know what having these rights will make gays? Full-fledged American citizens just like everyone else, with the freedom to pursue happiness and all that entails. Do the civil-rights struggles of the past 200 years mean absolutely nothing to you?

Do you also believe men should be able to marry boys? After all, we wouldn't even allow women to vote!

Ah yes, the slippery slope argument. When proponents of marriage equality refer to same-sex marriage, what they are talking about is that sort of bond. The key factors here are:

Two human beings, both of whom are:
--Legal adults, and who are a part of:
--A mutually consenting relationship

So, using your example: Nope. Two strikes against this, because one partner is not a legal adult and is thus not actually capable of giving consent.

[Mothman]

I'm glad he realizes he was being too harsh with that one.

However, I'd feel better regarding this talk about the report corroborating his story if we actually had some indication of that corroboration from a source other than his camp.

Then there's this:

“In the NFL, it’s okay to commit crimes or beat your wife or get caught drunk driving, but when you speak out for something, that’s the line you can’t cross.

“Apparently, I can’t be redeemed.”

Yeesh, what a martyr...

[Purple bruise]

I'm glad he realizes he was being too harsh with that one.

However, I'd feel better regarding this talk about the report corroborating his story if we actually had some indication of that corroboration from a source other than his camp.

Then there's this:
Yeesh, what a martyr...

good God how is it okay to beat your wife or get duis??? The league has disciplinary actions taken against those individuals caught involved in those types of crimes. This chump needs to shut his BIG mouth and go away!! He is just in it for the hype and publicity IMO.

[Eli]

good God how is it okay to beat your wife or get duis??? The league has disciplinary actions taken against those individuals caught involved in those types of crimes. This chump needs to shut his BIG mouth and go away!! He is just in it for the hype and publicity IMO.

Yeah, he needs to go away, but the point he was trying to make is simple enough to understand. Players who get DUIs or beat their partners are disciplined, but remain in the league. Kluwe is saying that he was drummed out of the league for his views. Complete BS, but it's exactly the argument you'd expect from him after his claims of what supposedly happened to him.

[King James]

Why is that so difficult to believe?

Because the way he went about it makes me think it's just a publicity stunt. How can you promote tolerance and equality when you verbally bash people who may be against homosexuality. He could have been an adult about the situation and discuss this with the coaches or the owners about his displeasure of Priefer's alleged comments. Or write a letter to the NFLPA. He could have tried to talk to Priefer about it and who knows, Priefer probably would have apologized if he did say it. Cause like I said, people say things when their upset or frustrated. But no, what probably happen was that after he failed to make the Raiders team, he believed he should still be playing for the Vikings in the first place. So then he takes his personal anger about not being on a NFL team out on the Vikings all because he got released. So he accuses the team of discrimination to get back at the team and personally accuses his former special team coach of making hateful comments against homosexuals. Kluwe is an attention seeker. Whenever something doesn't go his way, you can bet your #### that he will post a fabricated article on the internet against whoever pissed him off. There's ways to promote tolerance and equality without causing a big scene. Perhaps if he actually showed compassion in his articles rather than calling people liars, bigots, and hypocrites, then you see that he's really showing an example of tolerance and equality towards homophobes. You can't fight fire with fire and expect peaceful results.

[maembe]

Oh great, we're back to the "Kluwe is just as bad because he is intolerant of bigots" argument...

[Mothman]

A few tidbits that may or may not interest you...

From a Pioneer Press article published on June 24, 2013:

http://www.twincities.com/ci_23527517/c ... econd-book

If Chris Kluwe thinks he was dumped by the Minnesota Vikings because of his social activism and profane commentary, he isn't saying.

Yet.

"I'm not in the meetings with coaches and g.m.'s , so I don't know what's said," Kluwe said Monday during an interview on "The Dan Patrick Show." "I think there might be a second book after I'm done playing football."

"All I can do is trust in my body of work and trust in what I've put out on the field over the years," Kluwe told Patrick, adding that he has been "statistically, the best punter the Vikings have had over the past eight years.

"(But) maybe they just wanted to move in another direction."

Kluwe signed with the Oakland Raiders on May 16, just 10 days after he was cut after six seasons in Minnesota. He is competing with another punter, Marquette King, for a spot on the Raiders' roster.

Are the Raiders concerned about Kluwe's activism?

"Make sure you represent the team well," Kluwe said he was told by his new employer. "Focus on football, and don't let things become a distraction."

From a PP article published on May 15, 2014:

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_257 ... estigation

Halunen told the Pioneer Press in January that Kluwe met with director of player development Les Pico shortly after Locke was drafted to complain about Priefer, and left with an understanding the matter would be looked into further.

Kluwe last month acknowledged meeting with Pico when he realized his job might be in jeopardy and said he doesn't know what might have immediately happened in the organization after he complained about Priefer.

In the Deadspin article, Kluwe wrote that he met with Vikings general manger Rick Spielman on May 6, 2013, and was told of his release. During that meeting, Kluwe said Thursday, he didn't mention anything about Priefer or about having met with Pico.

"At that point, it was pretty evident that I was going to be gone anyway, so there was not that much of a point in saying anything," said Kluwe, who was due to make $1.4 million in 2013.

[Mothman]

But you can fire someone for bringing negative attention to your organization which Kluwe was doing when he published that letter to the congressman which was clearly meant for attention with the way it was written and for doing things like the Ray Guy patch which Priefer didn't like either. It got the point where Priefer and probably the team were were tired of his antics as a whole and that plus age/salary/production was enough for them to move on.


What I'm saying is I highly doubt Kluwe was released because of the Vikings holding the opposite opinion of him on gay rights, which is what he claims.

... and he wasn't claiming it until long after the fact.

He's stated more than once that he doesn't actually know why he was fired. He's just confident in his own theory. He was apparently so upset by the way he was treated and discriminated against, and so devoted to the idea that nobody should have to work in a hostile workplace that when he was a Viking, Les Pico was the only person in the organization to whom he expressed concerns about Priefer's behavior (and then only once he thought he job was in danger). As I noted above in a quote from the Pioneer Press, Kluwe didn't even mention his concerns about Priefer when he met with Rick Spielman and Spielman informed him he was being released. Why? According to Kluwe: "At that point, it was pretty evident that I was going to be gone anyway, so there was not that much of a point in saying anything".

"Not much of a point in saying anything...". Those sure sound like the words of a man who's concerned about good workplace conditions for all and Kluwe's reasoning there stands in stark contrast to what he's saying now: "For me, this is about doing and standing up for what's right."

Where was this sense of justice in 2013? If what was happening with the Vikings was that wrong, why wait over half a year to try and do something about it if this is all about what's right?

Kluwe stated in Time that:

"it shows the kind of atmosphere that could be allowed to happen if steps aren’t taken to correct that kind of culture. We want to make people aware that what they’re saying has consequences, and can be potentially hurtful to other people.”

That certainly hasn't been a much of a concern for him when going after people whose views didn't align with his own. Read (or re-read) his letter to Maryland state delegate Emmett C. Burns Jr. and tell me Kluwe isn't a hypocrite.

[Cliff]

Where was this sense of justice in 2013?

I'm guessing it was hiding in the same place that Priefer's honesty was hiding in 2014 ... behind fear.

If what was happening with the Vikings was that wrong, why wait over half a year to try and do something about it if this is all about what's right?

I feel like you could easily argue the same basic point you made about why Priefer originally lied against yourself here.

Like you, I'm not saying I agree with Kluwe's actions, but I can find plausible reasons for them. Also like you, I need more info. Unfortunately Kluwe is the only source of information we have at this point. Hopefully we hear the other side soon and they don't leave us hanging with what is a pretty bad impression at this point.