Re: A little early but college QBs

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CharVike
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Re: A little early but college QBs

Post by CharVike »

I like this guy Joe Burrow who was considered a 2nd to 3rd round talent. I know Speilman will never pick a QB anyway but IMO that better be at the top of the draft board. If a guy gets close get him. This isn't the first time I posted about this kid and I don't watch much if any college football. But I tuned in the Alabama game just to see this kid play. He has it all. Including an NFL arm which in my opinion is a must have to be considered in round 1. I was impressed. Is he a step in guy? Nope. He will get a year on the bench. Now since he beat that Bama stiff he's flying up the boards and might go No 1. He's not that he needs to sit. The guy for the Tide did nothing for me. A major project. But he's considered the next no 1 overall pick. There is absolutely no way I would take this guy at this spot. I wouldn't take him in round 1 at all. Not even round 2. He has a pop gun arm. No thanks. Can't complete a tight window throw with that pop gun. I'm not a scout but I want a guy that can throw a football first. Every pass is in the book. With him half the play book needs to go in the garbage. That's my early QB look and see. But my guy won't be there anymore so it don't really matter.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

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I'd love to see the team commit to building up the OL but getting a QB in the first would find no objection from me. Most likely we'll end up going CB as both Rhodes and Waynes likely wont be wearing purple next year.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

Post by VikingLord »

I read that the Vikings passed on taking a QB who is now successful in the NFL (forget who it was - Russell Wilson maybe?) because they wanted to show confidence in Ponder after they drafted him in the 1st. I don't remember where I read that, but I remember reading it.

Another year, they passed twice on Aaron Rodgers while forcing more "immediate needs" in the 1st.

The year after they traded Moss, they forced a speedy WR in the first (Troy Williamson).

My opinion on any draft is work with what the draft gods deign to provide and don't force things. Improving a team during the offseason requires a GM who can see the big picture and is capable of using all methods and tools available.

Also, a GM only usually gets one pick per round each season. Those have to be spent on some position. If the GM doesn't spend his high picks on OL over a period of time, and the OL doesn't perform well, he'll get criticized for not taking an OL high. If he spends it on a player or players who don't turn out, he'll get second-guessed. The fact remains that the draft is largely a crapshoot at every position. While some GMs and teams might do a better job at evaluating college prospects than others, and some prospects have had more success in college than others, there is a lot of pure luck involved. So sure, Spielman should probably be looking at QBs in the upcoming draft, but should only consider taking one if, after all their evaluation of collect prospects they are interested in, said QB is the best prospect available with the pick.

If the draft goes by without them taking a QB because there were none worthy when their selections came around, there are other ways to fortify the position through trade or free agency. Plenty of teams have found success signing promising backups and/or aging vets. It's not ideal to go that route necessarily, but that approach can work just as well as hitting on a draft pick.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

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fiestavike wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:01 pm I'd love to see the team commit to building up the OL but getting a QB in the first would find no objection from me. Most likely we'll end up going CB as both Rhodes and Waynes likely wont be wearing purple next year.
Yes CB is a big need and so is OL. That will probably be the road we need to take but if a guy drops to us or gets close we need to take him. This sitting around with nothing in the hole is bad planning. Well there's no planning at that point.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

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VikingLord wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:35 pm I read that the Vikings passed on taking a QB who is now successful in the NFL (forget who it was - Russell Wilson maybe?) because they wanted to show confidence in Ponder after they drafted him in the 1st. I don't remember where I read that, but I remember reading it.

Another year, they passed twice on Aaron Rodgers while forcing more "immediate needs" in the 1st.

The year after they traded Moss, they forced a speedy WR in the first (Troy Williamson).

My opinion on any draft is work with what the draft gods deign to provide and don't force things. Improving a team during the offseason requires a GM who can see the big picture and is capable of using all methods and tools available.

Also, a GM only usually gets one pick per round each season. Those have to be spent on some position. If the GM doesn't spend his high picks on OL over a period of time, and the OL doesn't perform well, he'll get criticized for not taking an OL high. If he spends it on a player or players who don't turn out, he'll get second-guessed. The fact remains that the draft is largely a crapshoot at every position. While some GMs and teams might do a better job at evaluating college prospects than others, and some prospects have had more success in college than others, there is a lot of pure luck involved. So sure, Spielman should probably be looking at QBs in the upcoming draft, but should only consider taking one if, after all their evaluation of collect prospects they are interested in, said QB is the best prospect available with the pick.

If the draft goes by without them taking a QB because there were none worthy when their selections came around, there are other ways to fortify the position through trade or free agency. Plenty of teams have found success signing promising backups and/or aging vets. It's not ideal to go that route necessarily, but that approach can work just as well as hitting on a draft pick.
I agree with you. Don't take one to take one. But if this LSU guy gets close I hope we take him. At least he has the physical tools. It's not this no arm BS.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

Post by S197 »

CharVike wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:28 am I like this guy Joe Burrow who was considered a 2nd to 3rd round talent. I know Speilman will never pick a QB anyway but IMO that better be at the top of the draft board. If a guy gets close get him. This isn't the first time I posted about this kid and I don't watch much if any college football. But I tuned in the Alabama game just to see this kid play. He has it all. Including an NFL arm which in my opinion is a must have to be considered in round 1. I was impressed. Is he a step in guy? Nope. He will get a year on the bench. Now since he beat that Bama stiff he's flying up the boards and might go No 1. He's not that he needs to sit. The guy for the Tide did nothing for me. A major project. But he's considered the next no 1 overall pick. There is absolutely no way I would take this guy at this spot. I wouldn't take him in round 1 at all. Not even round 2. He has a pop gun arm. No thanks. Can't complete a tight window throw with that pop gun. I'm not a scout but I want a guy that can throw a football first. Every pass is in the book. With him half the play book needs to go in the garbage. That's my early QB look and see. But my guy won't be there anymore so it don't really matter.
Many people think Burrow will be the #1 pick. Vikings have no shot.

Tua is interesting though, especially if he falls. Vikings could trade to the back of the 1st and draft him even if he can't play next year. Cousins plays out his contract and Tua steps in with 4 years on a rookie deal.

Will never happen though, Rick doesn't draft QBs early unless absolutely necessary.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

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S197 wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:43 pm
CharVike wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:28 am I like this guy Joe Burrow who was considered a 2nd to 3rd round talent. I know Speilman will never pick a QB anyway but IMO that better be at the top of the draft board. If a guy gets close get him. This isn't the first time I posted about this kid and I don't watch much if any college football. But I tuned in the Alabama game just to see this kid play. He has it all. Including an NFL arm which in my opinion is a must have to be considered in round 1. I was impressed. Is he a step in guy? Nope. He will get a year on the bench. Now since he beat that Bama stiff he's flying up the boards and might go No 1. He's not that he needs to sit. The guy for the Tide did nothing for me. A major project. But he's considered the next no 1 overall pick. There is absolutely no way I would take this guy at this spot. I wouldn't take him in round 1 at all. Not even round 2. He has a pop gun arm. No thanks. Can't complete a tight window throw with that pop gun. I'm not a scout but I want a guy that can throw a football first. Every pass is in the book. With him half the play book needs to go in the garbage. That's my early QB look and see. But my guy won't be there anymore so it don't really matter.
Many people think Burrow will be the #1 pick. Vikings have no shot.

Tua is interesting though, especially if he falls. Vikings could trade to the back of the 1st and draft him even if he can't play next year. Cousins plays out his contract and Tua steps in with 4 years on a rookie deal.

Will never happen though, Rick doesn't draft QBs early unless absolutely necessary.
First pick will be out of reach but I hope they dont rule out trading up if they believe a great qb is available.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

Post by CharVike »

S197 wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:43 pm
CharVike wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:28 am I like this guy Joe Burrow who was considered a 2nd to 3rd round talent. I know Speilman will never pick a QB anyway but IMO that better be at the top of the draft board. If a guy gets close get him. This isn't the first time I posted about this kid and I don't watch much if any college football. But I tuned in the Alabama game just to see this kid play. He has it all. Including an NFL arm which in my opinion is a must have to be considered in round 1. I was impressed. Is he a step in guy? Nope. He will get a year on the bench. Now since he beat that Bama stiff he's flying up the boards and might go No 1. He's not that he needs to sit. The guy for the Tide did nothing for me. A major project. But he's considered the next no 1 overall pick. There is absolutely no way I would take this guy at this spot. I wouldn't take him in round 1 at all. Not even round 2. He has a pop gun arm. No thanks. Can't complete a tight window throw with that pop gun. I'm not a scout but I want a guy that can throw a football first. Every pass is in the book. With him half the play book needs to go in the garbage. That's my early QB look and see. But my guy won't be there anymore so it don't really matter.
Many people think Burrow will be the #1 pick. Vikings have no shot.

Tua is interesting though, especially if he falls. Vikings could trade to the back of the 1st and draft him even if he can't play next year. Cousins plays out his contract and Tua steps in with 4 years on a rookie deal.

Will never happen though, Rick doesn't draft QBs early unless absolutely necessary.
I wouldn't even consider Tau in round 1. That was a Alabama hype job. He has a pop gun arm. Joe can throw a football. That's what I want. But your correct. He went from 2nd to 3rd round to first pick based on one game. Don't expect him to start day one. If a team does then they are picking the wrong guy and he will be ruined. Just like the guy from Ohio St this year for the Skins. He played one year in college. He's not ready. But he's playing. They might have destroyed him.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

Post by VikingLord »

I want a QB who has "arm talent", preferable that along with good decision-making, especially under pressure.

If he can run ala Lamar Jackson, that's a big plus as well, but simply showing the ability to sense and avoid pressure with small movements and fakes in the pocket is great too.

I think its safe to say that the Vikings won't have a shot at a top QB prospect in the draft as they're almost certain to be picking in the bottom 3rd of the first round, so if they do end up targeting a QB in the draft its going to be someone with some question marks. Spielman would have to show he can see through those questions.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

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VikingLord wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:56 pm I want a QB who has "arm talent", preferable that along with good decision-making, especially under pressure.

If he can run ala Lamar Jackson, that's a big plus as well, but simply showing the ability to sense and avoid pressure with small movements and fakes in the pocket is great too.

I think its safe to say that the Vikings won't have a shot at a top QB prospect in the draft as they're almost certain to be picking in the bottom 3rd of the first round, so if they do end up targeting a QB in the draft its going to be someone with some question marks. Spielman would have to show he can see through those questions.
We won't have a shot at a top guy. I'm not saying bypass a better talent but if a QB is close in talent QB should win. They are hard to come by. Be nice to get a 2nd round or 3rd round talent guy to sit and learn.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

CharVike wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:45 pm
S197 wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:43 pm

Many people think Burrow will be the #1 pick. Vikings have no shot.

Tua is interesting though, especially if he falls. Vikings could trade to the back of the 1st and draft him even if he can't play next year. Cousins plays out his contract and Tua steps in with 4 years on a rookie deal.

Will never happen though, Rick doesn't draft QBs early unless absolutely necessary.
I wouldn't even consider Tau in round 1. That was a Alabama hype job. He has a pop gun arm. Joe can throw a football. That's what I want. But your correct. He went from 2nd to 3rd round to first pick based on one game. Don't expect him to start day one. If a team does then they are picking the wrong guy and he will be ruined. Just like the guy from Ohio St this year for the Skins. He played one year in college. He's not ready. But he's playing. They might have destroyed him.
You're KILLING me.

Tua does NOT have a pop gun arm. That's ludicrous. Go back and look at ONE THROW ... the throw to win the national championship a couple years ago. That was 40 yards on a frozen rope. You've admitted you don't watch college football, so maybe you shouldn't play scout. From a talent standpoint, Tua Tagovailoa is front-of-the-draft, easily. Every scout in America says the same thing. The knock is that he's been banged up, and now a very serious injury.

It all depends on this injury. If it's as severe as Bo Jackson's, then obviously he won't make it. But if not, then a team has to decide whether he's worth the risk. Will the injury history continue? Or will he be like Jaylon Smith and come back strong? Because of the injury, the speculation is that he may fall to the back of the first, or even into the second round. For my money, a team would be nuts not to take a chance on this guy. He's a Deshaun Watson type player. Arm, mobility, instincts, character.

As for the Vikings ... if Kirk Cousins keeps this up, I wouldn't draft him. I'd extend Cousins. He's playing nearly at an MVP level. I'll take a proven commodity over any rookie.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

Post by CharVike »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:42 pm
CharVike wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:45 pm
I wouldn't even consider Tau in round 1. That was a Alabama hype job. He has a pop gun arm. Joe can throw a football. That's what I want. But your correct. He went from 2nd to 3rd round to first pick based on one game. Don't expect him to start day one. If a team does then they are picking the wrong guy and he will be ruined. Just like the guy from Ohio St this year for the Skins. He played one year in college. He's not ready. But he's playing. They might have destroyed him.
You're KILLING me.

Tua does NOT have a pop gun arm. That's ludicrous. Go back and look at ONE THROW ... the throw to win the national championship a couple years ago. That was 40 yards on a frozen rope. You've admitted you don't watch college football, so maybe you shouldn't play scout. From a talent standpoint, Tua Tagovailoa is front-of-the-draft, easily. Every scout in America says the same thing. The knock is that he's been banged up, and now a very serious injury.

It all depends on this injury. If it's as severe as Bo Jackson's, then obviously he won't make it. But if not, then a team has to decide whether he's worth the risk. Will the injury history continue? Or will he be like Jaylon Smith and come back strong? Because of the injury, the speculation is that he may fall to the back of the first, or even into the second round. For my money, a team would be nuts not to take a chance on this guy. He's a Deshaun Watson type player. Arm, mobility, instincts, character.

As for the Vikings ... if Kirk Cousins keeps this up, I wouldn't draft him. I'd extend Cousins. He's playing nearly at an MVP level. I'll take a proven commodity over any rookie.
I didn't make it up. It's what I read and saw. Below is not me but scouts. You post that I'm making stuff up. In your mind he has a Farve arm. Well he doesn't. Let some other team take another Pennington in Rd 1. Good luck. Plus he was surrounded by a tremendous supporting cast. That Bama team is loaded. You'll say they have nothing. They will plug the next guy in and it's not like they won't win a game. I wouldn't pick him at the top even before the injury. It's a hype job and some are buying it.

Tagovailoa possesses elite anticipation, ball placement, decision-making and comfort reading defender leverage. Because of his immense mental gifts and football intelligence, he's overcome an arm best compared to Chad Pennington's.

There aren't many knocks on Alabama gunslinger Tua Tagovailoa. The athletic quarterback eviscerated defenses throughout 2018, and an ankle injury that later required surgery was the biggest reason for his one bad game against Georgia. His biggest flaw is a physical limitation: average arm strength.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

CharVike wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:07 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:42 pm
You're KILLING me.

Tua does NOT have a pop gun arm. That's ludicrous. Go back and look at ONE THROW ... the throw to win the national championship a couple years ago. That was 40 yards on a frozen rope. You've admitted you don't watch college football, so maybe you shouldn't play scout. From a talent standpoint, Tua Tagovailoa is front-of-the-draft, easily. Every scout in America says the same thing. The knock is that he's been banged up, and now a very serious injury.

It all depends on this injury. If it's as severe as Bo Jackson's, then obviously he won't make it. But if not, then a team has to decide whether he's worth the risk. Will the injury history continue? Or will he be like Jaylon Smith and come back strong? Because of the injury, the speculation is that he may fall to the back of the first, or even into the second round. For my money, a team would be nuts not to take a chance on this guy. He's a Deshaun Watson type player. Arm, mobility, instincts, character.

As for the Vikings ... if Kirk Cousins keeps this up, I wouldn't draft him. I'd extend Cousins. He's playing nearly at an MVP level. I'll take a proven commodity over any rookie.
I didn't make it up. It's what I read and saw. Below is not me but scouts. You post that I'm making stuff up. In your mind he has a Farve arm. Well he doesn't. Let some other team take another Pennington in Rd 1. Good luck. Plus he was surrounded by a tremendous supporting cast. That Bama team is loaded. You'll say they have nothing. They will plug the next guy in and it's not like they won't win a game. I wouldn't pick him at the top even before the injury. It's a hype job and some are buying it.

Tagovailoa possesses elite anticipation, ball placement, decision-making and comfort reading defender leverage. Because of his immense mental gifts and football intelligence, he's overcome an arm best compared to Chad Pennington's.

There aren't many knocks on Alabama gunslinger Tua Tagovailoa. The athletic quarterback eviscerated defenses throughout 2018, and an ankle injury that later required surgery was the biggest reason for his one bad game against Georgia. His biggest flaw is a physical limitation: average arm strength.
Have you actually watched an Alabama game? Or has your newly found ability to use Google suddenly made you an expert at cherry-picking scout analysis that you can then exaggerate into descriptions like "pop gun arm"?

News flash. Average arm strength is not the same as pop gun arm.

If Tua recovers fully from his injury, he'll be a better quarterback than Chad Pennington ever dreamed of being. I'd say "you heard it here first," but that would be a lie. Most experts say the same thing.
Last edited by J. Kapp 11 on Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A little early but college QBs

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Re: A little early but college QBs

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand »

Do you know what gets hyped? Arm strength. Same as in baseball. Give me a pitcher that has great control and has a good grip on the mental part (knows how to pitch) over someone that can throw hard any day.
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