Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

[fiestavike]

That's wrong. It affects his play positively when it doesn't effect it negatively. The effect of negative plays is severely underestimated by most fans.

Clearly you missed the stat then.

Cousins from in the pocket:

When holding it for less than 2.5 seconds: 112.0 passer rating

When holding it more than 2.5 seconds: 112.1 passer rating

I think his play this year is what has been severely underestimated by fans. Granted he’s had two poor games like any QB. But he’s not making near the amount of turnovers (11 by this point last year, he has 5 this year (one being 100% on diggs)), he’s not taking near the amount of sacks (24 by this point last year, 16 this year) and has us at 6-3.

These are things guys complained about last year. The sacks, the turnovers, etc. Now he’s doing drastically better with both and guys are still complaining. His garbage time numbers are next to nothing at this point. Really only the bears game. Anything he’s done this year he’s earned for the most part. But instead guys are trying to make an argument that’s”holding the ball too long” is effecting his play. It’s not, he’s been just as good holding the ball longer as he has getting it out quick. And again, when you’re going deep as often as we are, you need to hold the ball longer. I can also bet that having constant 7 step drops from under center is also jacking that number higher.

I’m starting to think this guy needs to turn into Pat Mahomes over night in order for some fans to ever side with him. Like I’ve been saying, he never got a fair shot from the start with many fans and at this rate, he’ll never get a fair shot no matter how good he plays

No, I didn't miss the stat. You aren't interpreting it correctly. Of course there are advantages to holding the ball longer. There are also disadvantages. These are both pretty obvious and don't need to be spelled out.

In any case, the main issue is one of temperament and response to pressure, both situational/self imposed and physical/immediate.

[Pondering Her Percy]

If they had kept Teddy or Case they would have had more money to make the team better. Since your argument has always been the team being good resulting in wins over the QB being good resulting in them, why wouldn't you take that money to make the team good?

You can't argue Cousins was worth the big contract and then turn around and argue QBs aren't that important to winning.

It's a team game period. It doesn't matter how much you pay your QB. Well, it does if it affects the other aspects of the team. My point has always been it doesn't take a top 5 QB to win in the NFL. It's a myth. You need a QB that doesn't make stupid mistakes. IF that QB costs 28 million a year so be it. If it cost 4 million a year so be it.

Aaron Rodgers has been one of the highest-paid QB's in the league for the last 10 years. His record when the Packers defense gives up 25 ppg or more is 18-43-1.

Joe Montana, another great QB. His record was 13-19 when they gave up 25 ppg or more. Brady is 33-42. The fact is, when the defense gives up 25 ppg or more, you have less than a 50% chance of winning that game.

Good post raptor and also a good point. Like I’ve mentioned on here before, Kyle Brandt on good morning football said that he’s 100% bought into Kirk cousins. He said everyone complains he can’t win in prime time but he then researched and found out that his completion percentage, passer rating, td:int ratio, etc is actually better in prime time than in regular day games. The kicker was Brandt found out that in cousins defenses have given up on AVERAGE 31.8 points a game. The only team in the nfl currently that gives up more points is the dolphins at 32.0. THATS how bad cousins defenses have been in prime time....but Kirk cousins is taking the blame for that? Clearly Kirk cousins is NOT the problem in prime time. I was so glad to hear that stat from Brandt because it’s someone that actually looks into these “records” and not just on the surface of them like the rest of the media and fans do. So anyone that complains about him in prime time clearly have no idea what they are talking about

[Raptorman]

It's a team game period. It doesn't matter how much you pay your QB. Well, it does if it affects the other aspects of the team. My point has always been it doesn't take a top 5 QB to win in the NFL. It's a myth. You need a QB that doesn't make stupid mistakes. IF that QB costs 28 million a year so be it. If it cost 4 million a year so be it.

Aaron Rodgers has been one of the highest-paid QB's in the league for the last 10 years. His record when the Packers defense gives up 25 ppg or more is 18-43-1.

Joe Montana, another great QB. His record was 13-19 when they gave up 25 ppg or more. Brady is 33-42. The fact is, when the defense gives up 25 ppg or more, you have less than a 50% chance of winning that game.

Good post raptor and also a good point. Like I’ve mentioned on here before, Kyle Brandt on good morning football said that he’s 100% bought into Kirk cousins. He said everyone complains he can’t win in prime time but he then researched and found out that his completion percentage, passer rating, td:int ratio, etc is actually better in prime time than in regular day games. The kicker was Brandt found out that in cousins defenses have given up on AVERAGE 31.8 points a game. The only team in the nfl currently that gives up more points is the dolphins at 32.0. THATS how bad cousins defenses have been in prime time....but Kirk cousins is taking the blame for that? Clearly Kirk cousins is NOT the problem in prime time. I was so glad to hear that stat from Brandt because it’s someone that actually looks into these “records” and not just on the surface of them like the rest of the media and fans do. So anyone that complains about him in prime time clearly have no idea what they are talking about

Pick any QB that has been playing in the league for any amount of time and you will see a dropoff in wins once the defense starts giving up 25 ppg or more. Oh you will get your Mahomes who is currently 7-5 at with 25 ppg , but he won't last doing it. Even Goff is already at 9-10 when his team gives up 25 ppg or more. Mahomes won't be far behind.

[CharVike]

If they had kept Teddy or Case they would have had more money to make the team better. Since your argument has always been the team being good resulting in wins over the QB being good resulting in them, why wouldn't you take that money to make the team good?

You can't argue Cousins was worth the big contract and then turn around and argue QBs aren't that important to winning.

It's a team game period. It doesn't matter how much you pay your QB. Well, it does if it affects the other aspects of the team. My point has always been it doesn't take a top 5 QB to win in the NFL. It's a myth. You need a QB that doesn't make stupid mistakes. IF that QB costs 28 million a year so be it. If it cost 4 million a year so be it.

Aaron Rodgers has been one of the highest-paid QB's in the league for the last 10 years. His record when the Packers defense gives up 25 ppg or more is 18-43-1.

Joe Montana, another great QB. His record was 13-19 when they gave up 25 ppg or more. Brady is 33-42. The fact is, when the defense gives up 25 ppg or more, you have less than a 50% chance of winning that game.

I never would have thought those QBs would have a losing record when the D basically sucked. Rodgers is a stiff. Worse than Cousins I think when the D blows. That's a good post and clearly shows if your D sucks it's hard to win no matter who is playing QB. I wonder what Brady would do for the skins. I doubt it's a super bowl. And he's the best. They would still suck. How many really good players hit FA anyway. The elite guys don't get there.

[StumpHunter]

Cousins holding the ball longer has not effected his play at all. The stats I showed proved that which in turn, makes your argument invalid.

That's wrong. It affects his play positively when it doesn't effect it negatively. The effect of negative plays is severely underestimated by most fans.

I think most fans actually do realize how much it affects plays negatively, but they attribute the negative part to the oline not blocking well enough. Like PHP did in the Bears and Packers games when Cousins held the ball too long and had a bunch of negative plays because of it.

[StumpHunter]

If they had kept Teddy or Case they would have had more money to make the team better. Since your argument has always been the team being good resulting in wins over the QB being good resulting in them, why wouldn't you take that money to make the team good?

You can't argue Cousins was worth the big contract and then turn around and argue QBs aren't that important to winning.

It's a team game period. It doesn't matter how much you pay your QB. Well, it does if it affects the other aspects of the team. My point has always been it doesn't take a top 5 QB to win in the NFL. It's a myth. You need a QB that doesn't make stupid mistakes. IF that QB costs 28 million a year so be it. If it cost 4 million a year so be it.

Aaron Rodgers has been one of the highest-paid QB's in the league for the last 10 years. His record when the Packers defense gives up 25 ppg or more is 18-43-1.

Joe Montana, another great QB. His record was 13-19 when they gave up 25 ppg or more. Brady is 33-42. The fact is, when the defense gives up 25 ppg or more, you have less than a 50% chance of winning that game.

What is Cousins' record in that spot?

Seems like something you would want to bring up when trying to imply Brady, Montana and Rodgers are just as bad when their defenses give up a lot of points.

[Pondering Her Percy]

That's wrong. It affects his play positively when it doesn't effect it negatively. The effect of negative plays is severely underestimated by most fans.

I think most fans actually do realize how much it affects plays negatively, but they attribute the negative part to the oline not blocking well enough. Like PHP did in the Bears and Packers games when Cousins held the ball too long and had a bunch of negative plays because of it.

lol yeah because him getting sacked 6 times in the bears game was because cousins held the ball too long Not this elite pass blocking OL lol. It’s easy to sit here and pick apart his bad games. It’s the only thing you have to run to at this point. Regardless, a 112.1 passer rating throwing over 2.5 seconds doesn’t just happen. Nobody gave him that stat for fun. It’s not a lie. Clearly he’s performing at just as high of a level over 2.5 than he is under. Otherwise he’s would have a passer rating like that. But you and fiesta are trying to defy reality and say that he’s still worse when throwing over 2.5. Just stop...just stop. You’re back to hunting for shi# again. Trying to find flaws in the system. Trying to find leaks in the roof. Problem is, you try to hard because you’re so deep at this point. You’re beyond committed to him being the bad QB you claim him to be. But it doesn’t surprise me one bit that you’re arguing this stat. I could tell you Kirk Cousins middle name is Daniel and you’d find a way to argue it

[Raptorman]

It's a team game period. It doesn't matter how much you pay your QB. Well, it does if it affects the other aspects of the team. My point has always been it doesn't take a top 5 QB to win in the NFL. It's a myth. You need a QB that doesn't make stupid mistakes. IF that QB costs 28 million a year so be it. If it cost 4 million a year so be it.

Aaron Rodgers has been one of the highest-paid QB's in the league for the last 10 years. His record when the Packers defense gives up 25 ppg or more is 18-43-1.

Joe Montana, another great QB. His record was 13-19 when they gave up 25 ppg or more. Brady is 33-42. The fact is, when the defense gives up 25 ppg or more, you have less than a 50% chance of winning that game.

What is Cousins' record in that spot?

Seems like something you would want to bring up when trying to imply Brady, Montana and Rodgers are just as bad when their defenses give up a lot of points.

4-28-2. 24 of those losses are with the Redskins. And I never said they were as bad. Simply stating the fact that if your team gives up points, it doesn't matter who the QB is, it's tough to win. I only used them because they are considered "elite" by many.

Something else to think about. Brady has 75 games with 25 ppg or more, in 276 games, roughly 27 %. Cousins is around 42% of his games at this point in his career.

[StumpHunter]

What is Cousins' record in that spot?

Seems like something you would want to bring up when trying to imply Brady, Montana and Rodgers are just as bad when their defenses give up a lot of points.

4-28-2. 24 of those losses are with the Redskins. And I never said they were as bad. Simply stating the fact that if your team gives up points, it doesn't matter who the QB is, it's tough to win. I only used them because they are considered "elite" by many.

Something else to think about. Brady has 75 games with 25 ppg or more, in 276 games, roughly 27 %. Cousins is around 42% of his games at this point in his career.

You were doing a comparison, and only including half of the equation. Based on that number I get why you would withhold that data.

[halfgiz]

You can make all the excuses you want for Cousins...Bottom line, he currently is a 500 QB.
What has he done in his career

[Pondering Her Percy]

You can make all the excuses you want for Cousins...Bottom line, he currently is a 500 QB.
What has he done in his career

Who cares what he’s done throughout his career? It’s about what he’s doing now and he’s playing well and has us at 6-3. So guys can quit their bitc#ing. That’s like saying spielman is a bad GM because he wasn’t good in Miami. Like who cares? If he’s doing his job now that’s all that matter. Cousins is doing his job right now, that’s all that matters. I don’t care what his record is or what record stats you guys find, it means nothing right now. Holy shi# you guys don’t stop. 4-1 in the last 5 games and you guys are still complaining. Enough already

[StumpHunter]

You can make all the excuses you want for Cousins...Bottom line, he currently is a 500 QB.
What has he done in his career

Who cares what he’s done throughout his career? It’s about what he’s doing now and he’s playing well and has us at 6-3. So guys can quit their bitc#ing. That’s like saying spielman is a bad GM because he wasn’t good in Miami. Like who cares? If he’s doing his job now that’s all that matter. Cousins is doing his job right now, that’s all that matters. I don’t care what his record is or what record stats you guys find, it means nothing right now. Holy shi# you guys don’t stop. 4-1 in the last 5 games and you guys are still complaining. Enough already

So...we should let his play do the talking and stop making excuses one way or the other?

Sounds good to me.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Who cares what he’s done throughout his career? It’s about what he’s doing now and he’s playing well and has us at 6-3. So guys can quit their bitc#ing. That’s like saying spielman is a bad GM because he wasn’t good in Miami. Like who cares? If he’s doing his job now that’s all that matter. Cousins is doing his job right now, that’s all that matters. I don’t care what his record is or what record stats you guys find, it means nothing right now. Holy shi# you guys don’t stop. 4-1 in the last 5 games and you guys are still complaining. Enough already

So...we should let his play do the talking and stop making excuses one way or the other?

Sounds good to me.

Yeah maybe you should tell yourself to let his play do the talking. Because you seem to find excuses of why the eagles aren’t an above average team but KC was with Matt Moore (no less they just lost to a below average titans team WITH Mahomes) I’m sure you already have your ammo in your pocket for tonight if he wins on how the cowboys arent a good team. Just give credit to where credit is due instead of hunting for any other reason you can to go after cousins.

[fiestavike]

I think most fans actually do realize how much it affects plays negatively, but they attribute the negative part to the oline not blocking well enough. Like PHP did in the Bears and Packers games when Cousins held the ball too long and had a bunch of negative plays because of it.

lol yeah because him getting sacked 6 times in the bears game was because cousins held the ball too long Not this elite pass blocking OL lol. It’s easy to sit here and pick apart his bad games. It’s the only thing you have to run to at this point. Regardless, a 112.1 passer rating throwing over 2.5 seconds doesn’t just happen. Nobody gave him that stat for fun. It’s not a lie. Clearly he’s performing at just as high of a level over 2.5 than he is under. Otherwise he’s would have a passer rating like that. But you and fiesta are trying to defy reality and say that he’s still worse when throwing over 2.5. Just stop...just stop. You’re back to hunting for shi# again. Trying to find flaws in the system. Trying to find leaks in the roof. Problem is, you try to hard because you’re so deep at this point. You’re beyond committed to him being the bad QB you claim him to be. But it doesn’t surprise me one bit that you’re arguing this stat. I could tell you Kirk Cousins middle name is Daniel and you’d find a way to argue it

PHP, if you would take a step back you would realize that holding the ball longer has a number of clear benefits. For instance, receivers have more time to get separation, screen passes have time to develop, play action passes have time to develop, etc. Nobody is denying your statistic, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum and it doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. There was a 3rd and 5 sunday night that resulted in a sack and illustrated where there is also a real value in getting the ball out early, just as there was the week before on passes to Thielen (early in the game) and Ham (late in the game). As you may know, I'm not a big stat's guy, and I'm not saying holding the ball too long is the big problem for Kirk. At times it is, and at times it isn't. I just don't think he deals well with pressure, whether physical pressure in the moment or the pressure Kirk applies to himself at times, when you can see him aiming, overthinking, and failing to react. This year his slide on the QB scramble was perhaps the iconic illustration of this. Last year it may have been the panicked backward pass to his RB. I thought other than aiming his pass to Rudolph down the sideline, and missing Bisi Johnson on his rollout, Kirk did a pretty good job in this game.

[Raptorman]

You can make all the excuses you want for Cousins...Bottom line, he currently is a 500 QB.
What has he done in his career

41-40-2 in career.
15-10-1 with the Vikings.

Guess which one I'm concerned with?