Vikings vs. New Orleans (preseason) ... thoughts

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Rhodes Closed
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Re: Vikings vs. New Orleans (preseason) ... thoughts

Post by Rhodes Closed »

Tbolt wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:46 pm What’s it going to take for Sloter to get recognized as the second best QB on the team? In 10 preseason games he’s 9TDs 0 int’s. Does he need to save someone from a burning building?
He'll need to play an actual regular season game and have the mental capacities to not be lazy in practice.
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Re: Vikings vs. New Orleans (preseason) ... thoughts

Post by StumpHunter »

Rhodes Closed wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:48 am
Tbolt wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:46 pm What’s it going to take for Sloter to get recognized as the second best QB on the team? In 10 preseason games he’s 9TDs 0 int’s. Does he need to save someone from a burning building?
He'll need to play an actual regular season game and have the mental capacities to not be lazy in practice.
Mannion played against guys who will make an NFL roster, Sloter did not. People need to realize that success in the 3rd and 4th quarter of a preseason game means next to nothing.
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Re: Vikings vs. New Orleans (preseason) ... thoughts

Post by VikingLord »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:51 pm Please, please tell me where the huge breakdown was on this play. There's no jailbreak. This is solid O-line play. It's absolutely inarguable.
Kapp, thanks for taking the time to break that play down and put all that together. Its always enlightening to see how things evolve and how an initial impression like the one I had can be better informed by looking at the details.

It seems pretty clear after looking at what you posted that most of the breakdown came from #56 on the defense blitzing into the gap between the LT and the LG who were both otherwise occupied and Ham's late reaction stepping into that gap and engaging him.

Looking at this, Cousins reaction is even more impressive, not only recognizing the pressure (which I think at times he's struggled with a bit, although this was right in his face), but also realizing that without #56 in that gap, nobody was in that gap on defense, and if he could evade the pressure, he'd have a nice lane to run through. In fact, this is the kind of reaction you expect a veteran QB to have in that situation. It's easily the safest way to pick up the 9 yards the offense needed.

So I stand corrected. That play was not a jailbreak and the OL did a nice job.

And even looking at that, I'm wondering if Ham's "late" reaction is actually designed. If Ham steps up and aggressively attacks #56, then there is no wide open hole for Cousins to run through against a secondary that has its back turned in man coverage and is deeper down the field than what Cousins needs to pick up with his legs. By allowing the blitzer some depth, and then turning him away, Ham actually opens up that running lane nice and wide for Cousins. True, it looks like a busted play and I'm sure the intent on the play is for Cousins to find a receiver, but once the Saints send that LB who is the only guy in a position to prevent Cousins from running, maybe the best play there is to have Cousins tuck it and go.

I realize I'm reaching a bit and its far more likely Ham was late recognizing and picking up the blitzer, but there is a small chance too that what Ham and Cousins did on that play is actually coached based on what the defense did. Even when Ham did step up and engage the blitzer, he almost steered him using his momemtum and didn't try to take him on directly. That's something you see from well coached offensive lines, and maybe well coached running backs, too.

Anyway, thanks for the analysis. I was wrong and the line played well on that play.
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Re: Vikings vs. New Orleans (preseason) ... thoughts

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingLord wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:19 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:51 pm Please, please tell me where the huge breakdown was on this play. There's no jailbreak. This is solid O-line play. It's absolutely inarguable.
Kapp, thanks for taking the time to break that play down and put all that together. Its always enlightening to see how things evolve and how an initial impression like the one I had can be better informed by looking at the details.

It seems pretty clear after looking at what you posted that most of the breakdown came from #56 on the defense blitzing into the gap between the LT and the LG who were both otherwise occupied and Ham's late reaction stepping into that gap and engaging him.

Looking at this, Cousins reaction is even more impressive, not only recognizing the pressure (which I think at times he's struggled with a bit, although this was right in his face), but also realizing that without #56 in that gap, nobody was in that gap on defense, and if he could evade the pressure, he'd have a nice lane to run through. In fact, this is the kind of reaction you expect a veteran QB to have in that situation. It's easily the safest way to pick up the 9 yards the offense needed.

So I stand corrected. That play was not a jailbreak and the OL did a nice job.

And even looking at that, I'm wondering if Ham's "late" reaction is actually designed. If Ham steps up and aggressively attacks #56, then there is no wide open hole for Cousins to run through against a secondary that has its back turned in man coverage and is deeper down the field than what Cousins needs to pick up with his legs. By allowing the blitzer some depth, and then turning him away, Ham actually opens up that running lane nice and wide for Cousins. True, it looks like a busted play and I'm sure the intent on the play is for Cousins to find a receiver, but once the Saints send that LB who is the only guy in a position to prevent Cousins from running, maybe the best play there is to have Cousins tuck it and go.

I realize I'm reaching a bit and its far more likely Ham was late recognizing and picking up the blitzer, but there is a small chance too that what Ham and Cousins did on that play is actually coached based on what the defense did. Even when Ham did step up and engage the blitzer, he almost steered him using his momemtum and didn't try to take him on directly. That's something you see from well coached offensive lines, and maybe well coached running backs, too.

Anyway, thanks for the analysis. I was wrong and the line played well on that play.
Dude, thank you. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to have someone say, "You know, I may have been mistaken." Much appreciated.

And if I'm honest, my first reaction was simply gut feel. Didn't SEEM like a jailbreak to me. Going back and actually looking at the play frame by frame forced me to analyze and prove what my gut was telling me. But I admit that I easily could have been wrong. So I'm glad I broke down that play. Now that I know the mechanics of getting it into the system, I think it might be fun to do more.

That's an interesting point about Ham. My reaction was that he made up for a mistake, but I've never played football beyond high school (plus, I was a kicker) so I don't know the first thing about what a running back is supposed to do in pass protection. You're right ... we always marvel at the RB who sticks his helmet in there and stops a linebacker dead in his tracks, but maybe Ham did exactly what he was supposed to do. Like you said, tackles are taught to do that (see Riley Reiff in the analyzed play). They use the rusher's momentum to take him out of the play.

Again, thanks for your honesty. I respect the heck out of that.
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