Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

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Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:22 pm

OK, so I brought this up last year. Dan Carlson missed three kicks against the Packers and got cut, then went to Oakland and made 17-of-18 field goals. Dan Bailey, a career 87-percent kicker, comes to the Vikings and struggles.

My theory was that the problem may not have been the kickers, but the holder. Matt Wile had never held for field goals or extra points until he got to the NFL. It's such an important job, yet rarely gets mentioned.

Low and behold, I come across this today at usatoday.com ...
Instead of using punter Matt Wile as a field-goal holder, Vikings coach Mike Zimmer said the Vikings “maybe” could use wide receivers Adam Thielen and/or Chad Beebe.

It will come down to how comfortable kicker Dan Bailey feels, and it feels like this hints at the fact that he might not be completely comfortable with Wile.
Full story.

I'm kind of a kicker aficionado (weird, I know ... deal with it!), so I find this very interesting. Thoughts?
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Re: Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:59 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:22 pm
OK, so I brought this up last year. Dan Carlson missed three kicks against the Packers and got cut, then went to Oakland and made 17-of-18 field goals. Dan Bailey, a career 87-percent kicker, comes to the Vikings and struggles.

My theory was that the problem may not have been the kickers, but the holder. Matt Wile had never held for field goals or extra points until he got to the NFL. It's such an important job, yet rarely gets mentioned.

Low and behold, I come across this today at usatoday.com ...
Instead of using punter Matt Wile as a field-goal holder, Vikings coach Mike Zimmer said the Vikings “maybe” could use wide receivers Adam Thielen and/or Chad Beebe.

It will come down to how comfortable kicker Dan Bailey feels, and it feels like this hints at the fact that he might not be completely comfortable with Wile.
Full story.

I'm kind of a kicker aficionado (weird, I know ... deal with it!), so I find this very interesting. Thoughts?
Carlson had an issue with his approach he needed a few weeks off and a special trainer to fix.

Bailey had the exact same FG % in Dallas the year prior as he did in MN. There is a reason he was available to pick up off the street.
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Re: Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by S197 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:41 pm

The hold is very important (so I'm told) and Kluwe was probably the last really good one we've had. That being said, I feel like this is just an early camp experiment and potentially an emergency holder tryout. In addition to Thielen and Beebe, all of the backup QBs also did some holding practice.

FWIW, the one FG Bailey missed in practice the other day, Thielen was the holder.
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Re: Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:46 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:59 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:22 pm
OK, so I brought this up last year. Dan Carlson missed three kicks against the Packers and got cut, then went to Oakland and made 17-of-18 field goals. Dan Bailey, a career 87-percent kicker, comes to the Vikings and struggles.

My theory was that the problem may not have been the kickers, but the holder. Matt Wile had never held for field goals or extra points until he got to the NFL. It's such an important job, yet rarely gets mentioned.

Low and behold, I come across this today at usatoday.com ...



Full story.

I'm kind of a kicker aficionado (weird, I know ... deal with it!), so I find this very interesting. Thoughts?
Carlson had an issue with his approach he needed a few weeks off and a special trainer to fix.

Bailey had the exact same FG % in Dallas the year prior as he did in MN. There is a reason he was available to pick up off the street.
Dan Bailey had a groin injury in 2017.

Special trainer? Who cares? Carlson set a Raiders record for field goal percentage. They're calling him their long-term answer at kicker.

The kicker is far from the only component in a successful field goal or extra point attempt. It takes a long snapper who not only puts it on the mark, but with the proper rotation so that the holder doesn't have to spin the ball. It takes the line doing its job. And it takes a holder who gets it down exactly in the right spot and at the right angle. A weak link in any of those areas, and the kicker is at a severe disadvantage.
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Re: Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by PurpleMustReign » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:31 am

I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that a holder makes a difference. As much as I didn't like Kleuwe, he was a good holder.
I am certain Wile will be the holder. I would like to see them stick with one for a few years.
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Re: Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:35 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:46 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:59 am


Carlson had an issue with his approach he needed a few weeks off and a special trainer to fix.

Bailey had the exact same FG % in Dallas the year prior as he did in MN. There is a reason he was available to pick up off the street.
Dan Bailey had a groin injury in 2017.

Special trainer? Who cares? Carlson set a Raiders record for field goal percentage. They're calling him their long-term answer at kicker.

The kicker is far from the only component in a successful field goal or extra point attempt. It takes a long snapper who not only puts it on the mark, but with the proper rotation so that the holder doesn't have to spin the ball. It takes the line doing its job. And it takes a holder who gets it down exactly in the right spot and at the right angle. A weak link in any of those areas, and the kicker is at a severe disadvantage.
The kicker is the main component.

"Who cares" about a kicker completely changing their approach? Okay...?

Bailey did have a groin injury in 2017 and has never been the same since.
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Re: Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:20 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:35 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:46 pm

Dan Bailey had a groin injury in 2017.

Special trainer? Who cares? Carlson set a Raiders record for field goal percentage. They're calling him their long-term answer at kicker.

The kicker is far from the only component in a successful field goal or extra point attempt. It takes a long snapper who not only puts it on the mark, but with the proper rotation so that the holder doesn't have to spin the ball. It takes the line doing its job. And it takes a holder who gets it down exactly in the right spot and at the right angle. A weak link in any of those areas, and the kicker is at a severe disadvantage.
The kicker is the main component.

"Who cares" about a kicker completely changing their approach? Okay...?

Bailey did have a groin injury in 2017 and has never been the same since.
You don't think an inexperienced holder with a rookie kicker could've contributed to the problems of both Carlson and Bailey?

And by the way, what's your source for this "complete change to approach"? Because I can't find anything about it.
Daniel Carlson wrote:"We just felt like at that time, I could take a break, work on some things that I wanted to work on because once you get into the season, you’re just getting ready for Sunday," Carlson said following Wednesday's practice. "You’re getting ready for Sunday. It was nice to be able to step back, work on a couple of little things – luckily this kind of circled around, and I was able to get a workout with [the Raiders] later. I knew an opportunity would come. Obviously, I didn’t know where from, but I just wanted to make sure that when that came I was ready and would be ready for the rest of the season."
That quote is found in multiple articles, but that's about the only thing I've ever found about his time away.

So unless you're making this up ... what's your source?
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Re: Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by Alaskan » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:04 pm

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Re: Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am

Thank you.
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Re: Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by Alaskan » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:07 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am
Thank you.
You are welcome.
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Re: Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by S197 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:55 pm

Bailey has been very inaccurate so far and it's getting a little concerning. Some of it has been bad snaps/holds but he's also struggling from the right hash based on the bloggers.
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Re: Thielen or Beebe to ... hold for field goals?

Post by PacificNorseWest » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:26 am

I'll never rely on another Vikings kicker again. Call it a curse, call it bad luck, whatever, but next time the Vikings are in a must-win-game -- playoffs or otherwise -- trailing, with the ball and in the last minutes of the 4th quarter, I hope that they understand that if 3 wins you the game, 6 will definitely win you the game and to punch that #### in the endzone.
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