Treadwell trade?

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11783
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 202

Re: Treadwell trade?

Post by S197 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:22 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:42 pm
S197 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:02 pm
My worry with Beebe is he has trouble staying healthy and he's also prone to drops. I think there's a misconception that he has good hands but if you read the beat writers reports, they all say he's had a number of drops in camp. I'm not saying he has poor hands, just that he's not the Edelman-like WR some people perceive him to be.
Fair point.

Just remember ... Julian Edelman was a quarterback in college and wasn't "Julian Edelman" for the first four years of his career, not breaking out until his 5th season. Interestingly enough, he also couldn't stay on the field, suffering a number of injuries.

And for the ultimate irony ... in October of 2015, Edelman appeared in a Sports Illustrated article entitled "From Edelman to Hankerson, the 10 WRs with the worst hands in the NFL." As a starter (since 2013) he's never had a drop rate of less than 9.8%, which consistently ranks him among the top 10 in drops. In spite of the drops, he's a pretty valuable member of the Patriots.

Not saying Beebe is Edelman. Just saying that if a guy shows real potential, stick with him. If that means fewer snaps for Beebe until he sharpens things up, then great. But at least he can separate, unlike Laquon Treadwell.
I think it's tough for guys of Beebe/Edelman's size to stay healthy especially when they're usually running in the middle of the field where they take more LB hits.

That's interesting about Edelman. I certainly think Beebe has a lot of potential and am glad he's on the team. He's made some great catches as well so maybe for him it's more a matter of not trying to do too much and secure the ball before heading up field. That's usually pretty coachable.

My bigger worry is the squad as a whole. Other than Treadwell, Diggs is our highest drafted WR and he was taken in the 5th. The majority weren't even drafted. That worked out great with Thielen but that's really more the exception than the rule.

With the cap and needing guys in the trenches, I can understand the lack of higher round picks. I just don't know of any other team that fields a roster that's 1 5th rounder and 4 UDFAs. It's kinda scary.
0 x

User avatar
Raptorman
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:23 pm
Location: Sebastian, FL
x 48

Re: Treadwell trade?

Post by Raptorman » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:22 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:22 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:42 pm

Fair point.

Just remember ... Julian Edelman was a quarterback in college and wasn't "Julian Edelman" for the first four years of his career, not breaking out until his 5th season. Interestingly enough, he also couldn't stay on the field, suffering a number of injuries.

And for the ultimate irony ... in October of 2015, Edelman appeared in a Sports Illustrated article entitled "From Edelman to Hankerson, the 10 WRs with the worst hands in the NFL." As a starter (since 2013) he's never had a drop rate of less than 9.8%, which consistently ranks him among the top 10 in drops. In spite of the drops, he's a pretty valuable member of the Patriots.

Not saying Beebe is Edelman. Just saying that if a guy shows real potential, stick with him. If that means fewer snaps for Beebe until he sharpens things up, then great. But at least he can separate, unlike Laquon Treadwell.
I think it's tough for guys of Beebe/Edelman's size to stay healthy especially when they're usually running in the middle of the field where they take more LB hits.

That's interesting about Edelman. I certainly think Beebe has a lot of potential and am glad he's on the team. He's made some great catches as well so maybe for him it's more a matter of not trying to do too much and secure the ball before heading up field. That's usually pretty coachable.

My bigger worry is the squad as a whole. Other than Treadwell, Diggs is our highest drafted WR and he was taken in the 5th. The majority weren't even drafted. That worked out great with Thielen but that's really more the exception than the rule.

With the cap and needing guys in the trenches, I can understand the lack of higher round picks. I just don't know of any other team that fields a roster that's 1 5th rounder and 4 UDFAs. It's kinda scary.
I don't care how a player comes into the league or what position they are drafted in. If they can play who cares if they are a UDFA or the 2nd pick in the draft.
1 x
Vikings fan since Nov. 6, 1966. Annoying Packer fans since Nov. 7, 1966

User avatar
fiestavike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3852
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:03 am
x 64

Re: Treadwell trade?

Post by fiestavike » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:10 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:22 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:42 pm

Fair point.

Just remember ... Julian Edelman was a quarterback in college and wasn't "Julian Edelman" for the first four years of his career, not breaking out until his 5th season. Interestingly enough, he also couldn't stay on the field, suffering a number of injuries.

And for the ultimate irony ... in October of 2015, Edelman appeared in a Sports Illustrated article entitled "From Edelman to Hankerson, the 10 WRs with the worst hands in the NFL." As a starter (since 2013) he's never had a drop rate of less than 9.8%, which consistently ranks him among the top 10 in drops. In spite of the drops, he's a pretty valuable member of the Patriots.

Not saying Beebe is Edelman. Just saying that if a guy shows real potential, stick with him. If that means fewer snaps for Beebe until he sharpens things up, then great. But at least he can separate, unlike Laquon Treadwell.
I think it's tough for guys of Beebe/Edelman's size to stay healthy especially when they're usually running in the middle of the field where they take more LB hits.

That's interesting about Edelman. I certainly think Beebe has a lot of potential and am glad he's on the team. He's made some great catches as well so maybe for him it's more a matter of not trying to do too much and secure the ball before heading up field. That's usually pretty coachable.

My bigger worry is the squad as a whole. Other than Treadwell, Diggs is our highest drafted WR and he was taken in the 5th. The majority weren't even drafted. That worked out great with Thielen but that's really more the exception than the rule.

With the cap and needing guys in the trenches, I can understand the lack of higher round picks. I just don't know of any other team that fields a roster that's 1 5th rounder and 4 UDFAs. It's kinda scary.
Its not the deepest position on the team, but it certainly is top heavy with Thielen and Diggs. Given that I expect a lot of 2 TE and FB alignments, some of my concern is mitigated but of course injuries could make for a frightening situation. If Diggs or Thielen go down, who is most likely to step up and actually be able to contribute. Beebe is exclusively a slot guy. I think Zylstra is probably the best if he can stay healthy, and I liked some of the things I saw from Johnson against the Seahawks. Treadwell is in that mix, but I don't think he has much if any of a leg up on the younger guys who can affordably be kept in house for the next couple seasons. I'm hoping they keep guys who might have a future with the team rather than the guy who clearly doesn't.
0 x

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11783
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 202

Re: Treadwell trade?

Post by S197 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:10 pm

Raptorman wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:22 pm
S197 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:22 pm


I think it's tough for guys of Beebe/Edelman's size to stay healthy especially when they're usually running in the middle of the field where they take more LB hits.

That's interesting about Edelman. I certainly think Beebe has a lot of potential and am glad he's on the team. He's made some great catches as well so maybe for him it's more a matter of not trying to do too much and secure the ball before heading up field. That's usually pretty coachable.

My bigger worry is the squad as a whole. Other than Treadwell, Diggs is our highest drafted WR and he was taken in the 5th. The majority weren't even drafted. That worked out great with Thielen but that's really more the exception than the rule.

With the cap and needing guys in the trenches, I can understand the lack of higher round picks. I just don't know of any other team that fields a roster that's 1 5th rounder and 4 UDFAs. It's kinda scary.
I don't care how a player comes into the league or what position they are drafted in. If they can play who cares if they are a UDFA or the 2nd pick in the draft.
That goes without saying but the likelihood "they can play" is a lot higher for a 2nd pick in the draft vs someone who got passed over by everyone. You can find a diamond in the rough, and we have, but 5 of them? Seems rather unrealistic.
0 x

User avatar
Raptorman
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:23 pm
Location: Sebastian, FL
x 48

Re: Treadwell trade?

Post by Raptorman » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:36 pm

S197 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:10 pm
Raptorman wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:22 pm

I don't care how a player comes into the league or what position they are drafted in. If they can play who cares if they are a UDFA or the 2nd pick in the draft.
That goes without saying but the likelihood "they can play" is a lot higher for a 2nd pick in the draft vs someone who got passed over by everyone. You can find a diamond in the rough, and we have, but 5 of them? Seems rather unrealistic.
In 2018 the Vikings had 17 undrafted players, and 15 1st and 2nd round players on the 53 man squad. Unrealistic.
0 x
Vikings fan since Nov. 6, 1966. Annoying Packer fans since Nov. 7, 1966

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11783
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 202

Re: Treadwell trade?

Post by S197 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:57 pm

Raptorman wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:36 pm
S197 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:10 pm


That goes without saying but the likelihood "they can play" is a lot higher for a 2nd pick in the draft vs someone who got passed over by everyone. You can find a diamond in the rough, and we have, but 5 of them? Seems rather unrealistic.
In 2018 the Vikings had 17 undrafted players, and 15 1st and 2nd round players on the 53 man squad. Unrealistic.
You only get one pick per round absent a trade so I'm not really sure what you're trying to support with this anecdotal evidence. You're obviously not going to have 30 top round picks on a roster.

But if you look at positions, do you see another filled with UDFAs? Secondary? Definitely not. LBs? Nope. DL is mostly mid-round picks. OL is a mix but a lot of high picks (Reiff, Bradbury, O'Neill). RB is high picks. So is TE.

It is a very unique and risky move to field a roster of UDFAs at one position. The Vikings have some luxury here due to Thielen and Diggs, all I'm saying is it's not the norm.
0 x

User avatar
PurpleMustReign
Starting Wide Receiver
Posts: 19148
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Crystal, MN
x 113

Re: Treadwell trade?

Post by PurpleMustReign » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:41 pm

S197 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:57 pm
Raptorman wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:36 pm


In 2018 the Vikings had 17 undrafted players, and 15 1st and 2nd round players on the 53 man squad. Unrealistic.
You only get one pick per round absent a trade so I'm not really sure what you're trying to support with this anecdotal evidence. You're obviously not going to have 30 top round picks on a roster.

But if you look at positions, do you see another filled with UDFAs? Secondary? Definitely not. LBs? Nope. DL is mostly mid-round picks. OL is a mix but a lot of high picks (Reiff, Bradbury, O'Neill). RB is high picks. So is TE.

It is a very unique and risky move to field a roster of UDFAs at one position. The Vikings have some luxury here due to Thielen and Diggs, all I'm saying is it's not the norm.
I think Diggs and Thielen mask a lot of the lack of depth there. It's like how Keenum masked the terrible talent they had at OL. People can be all proud that their highest WR (other than Treadwell) is Diggs in the 5th but what that likely means is if either Diggs or Thielen get hurt, they don't have anything behind them that resembles a starter.
I have a feeling they will keep 4 TEs and 4 WRs, along with three RBs (Abdullah will be cut). I'm on the fence if Treadwell will be one of the WRs or not. If I had to guess, I'd say he won't be, and it will be Thielen, Diggs, BeBee, and probably Zylstra, but I could see Dixon being the 4th.
0 x
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2018

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11783
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 202

Re: Treadwell trade?

Post by S197 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:37 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:41 pm
S197 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:57 pm


You only get one pick per round absent a trade so I'm not really sure what you're trying to support with this anecdotal evidence. You're obviously not going to have 30 top round picks on a roster.

But if you look at positions, do you see another filled with UDFAs? Secondary? Definitely not. LBs? Nope. DL is mostly mid-round picks. OL is a mix but a lot of high picks (Reiff, Bradbury, O'Neill). RB is high picks. So is TE.

It is a very unique and risky move to field a roster of UDFAs at one position. The Vikings have some luxury here due to Thielen and Diggs, all I'm saying is it's not the norm.
I think Diggs and Thielen mask a lot of the lack of depth there. It's like how Keenum masked the terrible talent they had at OL. People can be all proud that their highest WR (other than Treadwell) is Diggs in the 5th but what that likely means is if either Diggs or Thielen get hurt, they don't have anything behind them that resembles a starter.
I have a feeling they will keep 4 TEs and 4 WRs, along with three RBs (Abdullah will be cut). I'm on the fence if Treadwell will be one of the WRs or not. If I had to guess, I'd say he won't be, and it will be Thielen, Diggs, BeBee, and probably Zylstra, but I could see Dixon being the 4th.
4 WRs would be surprising but could happen. My guess is Taylor is #4 even though he's yet to do anything in preseason. I think it's really up for grabs though.

If I had to guess right now, I'd say they keep 5 with Taylor and Badet making the roster. Johnson on the PS. I agree Abdullah probably doesn't make it and they keep Boone as #3.
0 x

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11783
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 202

Re: Treadwell trade?

Post by S197 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:51 pm

First half of the Cards game confirmed my fears. I don’t think we have anyone after Diggs/Thielen. Granted Cousins played very poorly himself but the WR depth chart was really poorly thought out.
0 x

User avatar
PurpleMustReign
Starting Wide Receiver
Posts: 19148
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Crystal, MN
x 113

Re: Treadwell trade?

Post by PurpleMustReign » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:01 pm

S197 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:51 pm
First half of the Cards game confirmed my fears. I don’t think we have anyone after Diggs/Thielen. Granted Cousins played very poorly himself but the WR depth chart was really poorly thought out.
I agree... The reason I thought 4 WRs is because they have Irv Smith who could be like a WR, and he could line up if they do a 5 WR set.
It's why I really think they need to keep Treadwell unless someone is willing to give them better than a 5th for him.
0 x
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2018

CharVike
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 57

Re: Treadwell trade?

Post by CharVike » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:25 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:04 pm
CharVike wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:29 am

That's what Speilman decided to go with. Beebe is the 3rd guy and who really knows what he is. Treadwell certainly has better physical skills but again he's in a new offense. Every year it's a new offense for him. It could take 1/2 the season for him to get comfortable. This will be a two TE offense based on Kub's history. So maybe the 3rd WR isn't that important. I really don't like this switching offenses every year. Obviously some think it's the way to go. I'm not one of them. The first two games will tell alot about our team. Rodgers and Ryan are a tough out. If we aren't top 3 ranked pass D after those two then it's the same story.
Thielen and Diggs are in the same situation with new offenses every year, and they seem to be just fine.

Also, I disagree that Treadwell has better physical skills than Beebe. Zimmer talks about how Beebe gets separation because he doesn't have to slow down at the top of the route to make his break. The same can't be said for Treadwell. The only thing Treadwell has going for him over Beebe is size, which means little if you can't get open. He's also shown that he's prone to drops, which has nothing to do with scheme.

Where I can agree is that I wish we could see more of Beebe, so that we could see what he's capable of. He's playing with the 1s, and they're played 3 series in two games. Hopefully we'll see more of Beebe against the Cardinals. Since the Vikings are actively shopping Treadwell, I'd guess he gets targeted a bunch this week.
Beebe will get killed eventually. He weighs 170. Be different if he had some speed. Plus he has drop issues also. Neither one is a very good 3rd option and I imagine we will pick up a late camp cut to fill that hole. Bottom line is we are painfully thin at WR. Our 2 starters are good but after that the cupboard is bare. Not even a decent prospect waiting. But the NFL as a whole needs WRs. We are lucky to have 2 good starters and that 3rd slot will be filled with a cut vet which it should be. I'm ok with that. Theilman and Diggs pick up the new stuff. But who knows what Treadwell's mental condition is. Maybe he don't know the play book.
0 x