I need....some optimism

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PacificNorseWest
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I need....some optimism

Post by PacificNorseWest » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:53 am

Inject me, please...
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:51 am

Pacific, its early morning before work so gonna be lazy here. Go to the Why didnt Kirk Cousins play like Tom Brady thread.. go to page 18 , scroll down to the 2nd from bottom and read my post that starts Now this isnt gospel, then go to page 19 and read my next post, a reply to Kapp.
Maybe this will help you gain a little optimism. As u will see this stuff is coming from a retired starting center from my hometown who played in the Shanahan/ Kubiak system in Denver and Washington, was Cousins center for 2 seasons , and still stays in contact with him.
He and I had a great talk a few wks , and he made me feel VERY good with the things he told me about the potential he see for the Vikes this year, and especially the things he took away from a recent talk with Cousins. It was pretty great to hear.
Like I said, it doesnt mean its gonna translate on the field, but coming from a guy who is experienced in the system, Cousins and believes the O lineman we have fit this blocking scheme perfectly, I know I am very excited about the upcoming season.
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:53 am

Sorry for some reason my phone posted it twice.. well the guy typing did. Need more coffee
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:41 am

The run game and the play calling will be better.

There is no reason to think that a team that was top 10 offensively in 2017 can't be top ten again in 2019.

Zimmer's career in MN has been 1 year down, win the division, 1 year down, win division and make the NFCCG, 1 year down. If that trend continues we are in the SB this year.

Defensively, Griffen and Barr were off last year at the start, one because of some mental health issues, the other because he was afraid to get hurt on the last year of his deal. Both came on strong towards the end of the season, and the defense at the end of the year in 2018 was not all that different from the one in 2017.

The Bears will be worse without Fangio.

The Lions are the Lions.

Rodgers is not the same QB he once was.
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by S197 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:21 pm

Defensively, the only starter not returning is Richardson and he's being replaced by Shamar who obviously knows the defense well. There should be a great deal of continuity. The secondary also has good depth if they can make it past the first 4 games in good health.

The schedule is set up for a late season run. Not only due to all 3 December division games being at home but the team doesn't play outdoors after November 3rd. Okay they do but in San Diego so no cold games where they have traditionally struggled.

On paper the OL should be much improved. I think Kubiak can also help the run game to bring back some balance to the offense. All the skill position players are back and if a guy like Beebe can be a solid #3, they have a good core of starters.

It's also an odd year, the team has done well in years that end in odd numbers.
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:04 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:21 pm
Defensively, the only starter not returning is Richardson and he's being replaced by Shamar who obviously knows the defense well. There should be a great deal of continuity. The secondary also has good depth if they can make it past the first 4 games in good health.

The schedule is set up for a late season run. Not only due to all 3 December division games being at home but the team doesn't play outdoors after November 3rd. Okay they do but in San Diego so no cold games where they have traditionally struggled.

On paper the OL should be much improved. I think Kubiak can also help the run game to bring back some balance to the offense. All the skill position players are back and if a guy like Beebe can be a solid #3, they have a good core of starters.

It's also an odd year, the team has done well in years that end in odd numbers.
Hopefully this season ends in February 2020. A very even number. :govikes: :lol:
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by S197 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:00 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:04 pm
S197 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:21 pm
Defensively, the only starter not returning is Richardson and he's being replaced by Shamar who obviously knows the defense well. There should be a great deal of continuity. The secondary also has good depth if they can make it past the first 4 games in good health.

The schedule is set up for a late season run. Not only due to all 3 December division games being at home but the team doesn't play outdoors after November 3rd. Okay they do but in San Diego so no cold games where they have traditionally struggled.

On paper the OL should be much improved. I think Kubiak can also help the run game to bring back some balance to the offense. All the skill position players are back and if a guy like Beebe can be a solid #3, they have a good core of starters.

It's also an odd year, the team has done well in years that end in odd numbers.
Hopefully this season ends in February 2020. A very even number. :govikes: :lol:
Lol did not think about that.
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by VikingLord » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:40 pm

- Cousins in the system for the 2nd year and has more experience with his receivers
- Offensive line can't be worse than last year
- Dalvin Cook starts and stays healthy
- Expectations are down and so is the pressure on the team to meet those expectations. Can play without feeling like they have a target on their backs.
- Special teams, especially field goal unit, can't be worse than last year

But the best reason to be optimistic heading into this year is that this is still a very talented team that lost a lot of close games on what amounted to fluky plays and bad luck. I've compared them to the 1972 Vikings and I stand by that comparison on more than one level. The '72 team was every bit as talented as the '71 and '73 teams, but also missed the playoffs after also making a big change at QB to start that season. That team rebounded nicely the following year and played more up to their potential, and I expect this year's Vikings to do the same (but hopefully with a better result to end the season than the '73 team had).

It's still a very talented team playing with a great deal of continuity across the board.
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:48 pm

Two words. Gary Kubiak.

This is the best hire the Vikings have made since Denny Green, mainly because he has a proven track record for the running game, and a strong running game is what this team needs most. In 22 seasons as either an offensive coordinator or head coach, his teams have finished in the top-10 in rushing 15 times, and in the top-5 10 times. He's helped guys like Terrell Davis (6th round draft choice), Reuben Droughns (waived by Detroit, signed by Denver), Olandis Gary (4th round draft choice), Justin Forsett (7th round draft choice), Arian Foster (undrafted) to become 1,000-yard rushers. He has the ability to take average offensive lines and get the most out of them.

He also does a great job with very average quarterbacks. Even Peyton Manning in 2015 was a severely below-average QB, and they won the SB (obviously because of an amazing defense, but he still got enough out of Manning to get the job done). In my opinion, the Vikings have as much talent at the skill positions as Kubiak has ever worked with. This offense will go as the O-line goes, and I believe he can get the most out of them, making this offense good enough to work well with a talented defensive unit.

A number of people don't want to hear this about Kubiak. I get it. We've been burned with the likes of Norv Turner and John DeFilippo. The difference is that Kubiak has the track record of not only producing solid, balanced offenses, but also of WINNING. I like this hire a lot, and when all is said and done, I believe many of you will too.
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:21 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:41 am
The run game and the play calling will be better.

There is no reason to think that a team that was top 10 offensively in 2017 can't be top ten again in 2019.

Zimmer's career in MN has been 1 year down, win the division, 1 year down, win division and make the NFCCG, 1 year down. If that trend continues we are in the SB this year.

Defensively, Griffen and Barr were off last year at the start, one because of some mental health issues, the other because he was afraid to get hurt on the last year of his deal. Both came on strong towards the end of the season, and the defense at the end of the year in 2018 was not all that different from the one in 2017.

The Bears will be worse without Fangio.

The Lions are the Lions.

Rodgers is not the same QB he once was.
Good post definitely agree
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:26 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:21 pm
Defensively, the only starter not returning is Richardson and he's being replaced by Shamar who obviously knows the defense well. There should be a great deal of continuity. The secondary also has good depth if they can make it past the first 4 games in good health.

The schedule is set up for a late season run. Not only due to all 3 December division games being at home but the team doesn't play outdoors after November 3rd. Okay they do but in San Diego so no cold games where they have traditionally struggled.

On paper the OL should be much improved. I think Kubiak can also help the run game to bring back some balance to the offense. All the skill position players are back and if a guy like Beebe can be a solid #3, they have a good core of starters.

It's also an odd year, the team has done well in years that end in odd numbers.
I think we’re going to see someone emerge other than Stephen. I think Holmes, Hercules and Watts are all sleepers. Watts might be a year or so away. But Holmes and Hercules are going to make some noise this year I think. Both of them are on the more athletic/quicker side than usual DTs you see. They might be considered “small” but small isn’t always a bad thing.

I think Spielman signing Stephen was a very good under the radar signing because he’s so good vs the run but that doesn’t always gain the recognition it should. Holmes and Hercules are going to be our pass rushing DTs I think. Watts is the same way. But we really needed a run stopper at 3 tech because we didn’t have one. That’s where Stephen fills in
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:32 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:48 pm
Two words. Gary Kubiak.

This is the best hire the Vikings have made since Denny Green, mainly because he has a proven track record for the running game, and a strong running game is what this team needs most. In 22 seasons as either an offensive coordinator or head coach, his teams have finished in the top-10 in rushing 15 times, and in the top-5 10 times. He's helped guys like Terrell Davis (6th round draft choice), Reuben Droughns (waived by Detroit, signed by Denver), Olandis Gary (4th round draft choice), Justin Forsett (7th round draft choice), Arian Foster (undrafted) to become 1,000-yard rushers. He has the ability to take average offensive lines and get the most out of them.

He also does a great job with very average quarterbacks. Even Peyton Manning in 2015 was a severely below-average QB, and they won the SB (obviously because of an amazing defense, but he still got enough out of Manning to get the job done). In my opinion, the Vikings have as much talent at the skill positions as Kubiak has ever worked with. This offense will go as the O-line goes, and I believe he can get the most out of them, making this offense good enough to work well with a talented defensive unit.

A number of people don't want to hear this about Kubiak. I get it. We've been burned with the likes of Norv Turner and John DeFilippo. The difference is that Kubiak has the track record of not only producing solid, balanced offenses, but also of WINNING. I like this hire a lot, and when all is said and done, I believe many of you will too.
Great post Kapp I agree. I feel like turner ended up being a little behind the times. And Flip was hyped up as the “next McVay” and a one and done at OC and the guy couldn’t have been worse. He’ll be lucky to ever land a HC job.

Kubiak definitely has the track record, especially in the run game. He seems like the type of coach that fits very well with what Zimmer wants. I really think this team is going to make some serious noise this year
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:57 am

To tell the truth, I need some optimism too. Until I see it with my own eyes, I don't believe Kirk has what it takes. Not trying to start another endless discussion. Just stating my opinion.

I'm excited for the running game this year. I think Mattison will be another Mewelde Moore. He'll compliment Cook and should help converting those 3rd and short situation that the Vikings struggled heavily with last year.

Also excited to see Hercules Mata'afa play. Been waiting a long time for another Hawaii player to make the team.
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by VikingLord » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:35 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:32 pm
Kubiak definitely has the track record, especially in the run game. He seems like the type of coach that fits very well with what Zimmer wants. I really think this team is going to make some serious noise this year
You can count me in the "skeptical" camp on Kubiak, or more precisely, on the impact he's likely to have primarily for two reasons:

- Stefanski, not Kubiak, is the offensive coordinator.
- Kubiak, for all the success he's had, doesn't strike me as more accomplished than another older former HC Zimmer hired in Norv Turner. And Norv had the title of offensive coordinator.

On that last point, I think its important to note that Turner left mid-season over what amounted to a dispute between Zimmer and himself regarding the offensive philosophy of the team. At least, that's the best I could make out of that situation. Which underscores that this is Zimmer's team first and foremost. Not Kubiak's and certainly not Stefanski's. From everything I can tell, Zimmer has strong views on how the offensive should play and if he feels like it isn't playing the way he wants it to, he's more than willing to step in and make changes. You can imagine that this is not exactly the sort of situation that an established coach is going to thrive in. Turner certainly didn't, and something tells me Kubiak won't either, regardless of how strong the relationship might be between him and Zimmer.

Stefanski is really the ideal guy to be the offensive coordinator for this team under Zimmer. He's far more likely to do whatever Zimmer wants him to do, and far less likely to challenge Zimmer in the event things aren't going well and Zimmer feels he needs to step in.

Suffice it to say, I'm still not even sold on the extent of the role Kubiak is going to play with this team. It could be he's going to be the Wizard working behind the curtain, but equally likely he'll take on a token advisory role and be more of a soundboard for Stefanski to bounce gameplan ideas off.

And if he is more than than just a true advisor, I still think that situation becomes rip for accountability issues should things start to go poorly on offense as nobody wants to admit to owning the ugly baby.
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Re: I need....some optimism

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:55 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:26 pm
S197 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:21 pm
Defensively, the only starter not returning is Richardson and he's being replaced by Shamar who obviously knows the defense well. There should be a great deal of continuity. The secondary also has good depth if they can make it past the first 4 games in good health.

The schedule is set up for a late season run. Not only due to all 3 December division games being at home but the team doesn't play outdoors after November 3rd. Okay they do but in San Diego so no cold games where they have traditionally struggled.

On paper the OL should be much improved. I think Kubiak can also help the run game to bring back some balance to the offense. All the skill position players are back and if a guy like Beebe can be a solid #3, they have a good core of starters.

It's also an odd year, the team has done well in years that end in odd numbers.
I think we’re going to see someone emerge other than Stephen. I think Holmes, Hercules and Watts are all sleepers. Watts might be a year or so away. But Holmes and Hercules are going to make some noise this year I think. Both of them are on the more athletic/quicker side than usual DTs you see. They might be considered “small” but small isn’t always a bad thing.

I think Spielman signing Stephen was a very good under the radar signing because he’s so good vs the run but that doesn’t always gain the recognition it should. Holmes and Hercules are going to be our pass rushing DTs I think. Watts is the same way. But we really needed a run stopper at 3 tech because we didn’t have one. That’s where Stephen fills in
Stephen is good on 1st and 2nd against the run, better than Richardson was. Where the Vikes need help is on 3rd down or obvious passing downs. Richardson and Johnson were very good at creating pressure up the middle, and the Vikes need someone to step up big to take their spots. Maybe moving Griff there like he did early in his career, or Weatherly possibly.
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