Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Raptorman » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:05 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:46 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:41 pm


We should be better this year than last. I still worry we didn't do enough to improve the line and are hoping guys have a bounce back year or do well at a new position at guard (sound familiar).

Dennison is at best a push at Oline coach, Kubiak and Stefanski should call plays more in line with what the HC wants. The run game should be better.

Defensively they will be better against the run with Stephen, but possibly not have the pass rush from the DT spot without Johnson and Richardson there.

My prediction has been 10-6 all off season, and I believe this team makes the playoffs. I don't know how it makes the jump to Super Bowl contender with the pieces they added/subtracted though.
Do you have any specific thoughts about how Cousins performance might improve beyond a possible uptick in OL play?
Well, it should get better with better o-line play. The Vikings will win more games if the defense shows up every game as well. Giving up points doesn't make it any easier on the QB.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:39 am

I will echo what other here have said about Kubiak's system bringing some optimism. I've always loved the zone blocking scheme and feel it will fit our specific members of the O line well. Most of are O lineman are on smaller ur lighter side... not to us average guys.. but compared to some of the real big lineman, and are better at using anime speed and quickness to be in a specific spot and misdirect or cause the defender to go where they want then to go, instead of trying to manhandle or push then there, if I'm making that point clear. Its 4 30 am and just getting around so maybe no taking my point without the benefit of that 1st cup of Java. I just think back to a guy like Schlereth in his days with Denver. Not the biggest strongest guy, but he used this scheme to perfection.
2. We gotta remember that Elf is truly healthy again, as is Cook. U believe we will see the Elflein we saw as a rookie, but back at the G position he wanted to play. Bradbury is really impressing son far and has the makings of a career stud center.
Cook is in his 2nd year back from the knee injury. This is the year they always say guys are back to where they feel great again, and MOST importantly don't think about the knee anymore. They just go out and play.
Lastly, I think this is really a team full of talented, unselfish guys who care about each other and the team, and really wanna win and are gonna use last year's heartbreak season as motivation to get that bad taste that they have carried all off season out their mouths.
I also think Cousins is in his 2nd year, more comfortable, especially with Kubiak now there and Stefanski as the OC over Flip.
O myself see so much potential and optimism going into this season. I hope I'm right. I really do
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:41 am

P.s. I REALLY look for Cook to really have a great year in this system, as he will be used perfectly for his skill set, and sounds like the kid is HUNGRY and really seems to have his head on straight.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:43 am

fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:07 pm
CharVike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:27 am

I think Cousins will play better. We need this new approach to functional very quickly. Can that be done? Yes. How I don't have a clue. I also like that they know the starting 5 OL right off the bat. I think this 1st pick of ours will be a heck of a player. There will be some rookie mistakes but at least they have the guy. I knock Klein but he may come back and he is a good fit with experience. This may seem strange but I think we need to improve defensively. I make it sound that I want shut outs but that's unrealistic. I would like to see more TOs. I want us to lead the league. That's hard to do. Maybe it's scheme related and if it is it needs to be changed. I don't know if we have a CB on our team that has the ball skills I'm looking for. Rhodes, who is a great player, needs to bounce back to top form. He has the skills needed. I'm worried about our deep depth and hope that Hughes will be back and playing to form ASAP. Hill I don't even know if he will be back. Can you put eggs in that basket? But if he comes back that will be a huge plus. The guy proved he can play. I paint alot of doom and gloom but we have a talented Roster. In the end I think we will challenge for the DIV Title and make the playoffs,
Is your reason for feeling like Klein is a good fit solely based on experience? I think the Guard positions are the biggest question marks at this point. Can Elflein bounce back? Is Klein better than his reputation? If we don't get favorable answers to at least one of those questions, we'll have some real trouble. Obviously its a cliche, but having a better offense--an offense that can get a lead and run clock--will have a positive impact on the defense. Playing fewer snaps and putting opposing offenses into more predictable situations is liable to yield better results. Whether that means leading the league in turnovers doesn't much matter to me.
Turnovers are very important. IMO we don't create enough of them. I have no idea why. Below is what I found out about turnovers. Nothing new.
As it turns out, the importance of winning the turnover battle has been remarkably static throughout NFL history. Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games.

Bottom line win the TO battle and you have a much better chance of winning the game. We were middle of the pack in getting TOs and for me that don't cut it. Be a top D and lead the league.

Supposedly Klein fits the zone block scheme. Will he be back to form? Who knows. This isn't a kid and he also could be done. His size is Height: 6-3 Weight: 300 Age: 29, He's a smaller player, which I can't stand, but he fits the size Kub wants.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:04 am

CharVike wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:43 am
fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:07 pm


Is your reason for feeling like Klein is a good fit solely based on experience? I think the Guard positions are the biggest question marks at this point. Can Elflein bounce back? Is Klein better than his reputation? If we don't get favorable answers to at least one of those questions, we'll have some real trouble. Obviously its a cliche, but having a better offense--an offense that can get a lead and run clock--will have a positive impact on the defense. Playing fewer snaps and putting opposing offenses into more predictable situations is liable to yield better results. Whether that means leading the league in turnovers doesn't much matter to me.
Turnovers are very important. IMO we don't create enough of them. I have no idea why. Below is what I found out about turnovers. Nothing new.
As it turns out, the importance of winning the turnover battle has been remarkably static throughout NFL history. Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games.

Bottom line win the TO battle and you have a much better chance of winning the game. We were middle of the pack in getting TOs and for me that don't cut it. Be a top D and lead the league.

Supposedly Klein fits the zone block scheme. Will he be back to form? Who knows. This isn't a kid and he also could be done. His size is Height: 6-3 Weight: 300 Age: 29, He's a smaller player, which I can't stand, but he fits the size Kub wants.
Kline's decline in TN was in large part because they switched to a zone blocking scheme. Where are you reading he is a good fit?
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by halfgiz » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:01 pm

I know we don't like talking about this...
The biggest thing that would help us this year is staying healthy. Seems every season injuries has hampered us on offense.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Raptorman » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:04 pm

You can sit there and discuss QB's and offense's all day long. And yes, they can and do make a difference in the game. But it is a team game. Period. Historically it goes like this.

Code: Select all

PPG given up.   Chance of winning.

19 or less.     85%
20 to 24.       60%
25 or more.     25% 

Now, I have run these numbers on both QB's and teams. And it doesn't make a difference. I'm not saying QB's don't matter, I'm saying they have to look at as a member of the "team". Very few QB's can win games by themselves And no one can do it all the time. A couple of games a year at most. Can they elevate team play? Yes, but if the defense doesn't do its part what you get is wins in the regular season and then losses in the playoffs. The greatest example of this is Peyton Manning. The Colts very seldom had a top 10 defense, but almost always had top 5 offense.

I am a firm believer that had Manning been playing in NE, the Patriots would have 12 Super Bowls in the last 20 years instead of 5. Manning won more games with poorer defense than any other QB. Marino comes close.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by fiestavike » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:39 pm

CharVike wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:43 am
fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:07 pm


Is your reason for feeling like Klein is a good fit solely based on experience? I think the Guard positions are the biggest question marks at this point. Can Elflein bounce back? Is Klein better than his reputation? If we don't get favorable answers to at least one of those questions, we'll have some real trouble. Obviously its a cliche, but having a better offense--an offense that can get a lead and run clock--will have a positive impact on the defense. Playing fewer snaps and putting opposing offenses into more predictable situations is liable to yield better results. Whether that means leading the league in turnovers doesn't much matter to me.
Turnovers are very important. IMO we don't create enough of them. I have no idea why. Below is what I found out about turnovers. Nothing new.
As it turns out, the importance of winning the turnover battle has been remarkably static throughout NFL history. Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games.

Bottom line win the TO battle and you have a much better chance of winning the game. We were middle of the pack in getting TOs and for me that don't cut it. Be a top D and lead the league.

Supposedly Klein fits the zone block scheme. Will he be back to form? Who knows. This isn't a kid and he also could be done. His size is Height: 6-3 Weight: 300 Age: 29, He's a smaller player, which I can't stand, but he fits the size Kub wants.
Yes, but the best way to win the turnover battle is not to turn the ball over. Teams have far more control of turnovers on offense than they do on defense. Control the clock, play with the lead, take care of the ball, the defense will play better and likely get more turnovers.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:45 am

fiestavike wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:39 pm
CharVike wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:43 am

Turnovers are very important. IMO we don't create enough of them. I have no idea why. Below is what I found out about turnovers. Nothing new.
As it turns out, the importance of winning the turnover battle has been remarkably static throughout NFL history. Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games.

Bottom line win the TO battle and you have a much better chance of winning the game. We were middle of the pack in getting TOs and for me that don't cut it. Be a top D and lead the league.

Supposedly Klein fits the zone block scheme. Will he be back to form? Who knows. This isn't a kid and he also could be done. His size is Height: 6-3 Weight: 300 Age: 29, He's a smaller player, which I can't stand, but he fits the size Kub wants.
Yes, but the best way to win the turnover battle is not to turn the ball over. Teams have far more control of turnovers on offense than they do on defense. Control the clock, play with the lead, take care of the ball, the defense will play better and likely get more turnovers.
Not sure about that. You control TOs on both sides. Next time we play the Bears and they open the game on offense and try to pound the rock on us hit the RB hard and knock the ball out. Swarm him. Don't let the guy poke long runs through you. and not get touched until he's way beyond the LOS. You won't get many TOs that way. Force them. That has zero to do with the offense.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:55 am

fiestavike wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:39 pm
CharVike wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:43 am

Turnovers are very important. IMO we don't create enough of them. I have no idea why. Below is what I found out about turnovers. Nothing new.
As it turns out, the importance of winning the turnover battle has been remarkably static throughout NFL history. Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games.

Bottom line win the TO battle and you have a much better chance of winning the game. We were middle of the pack in getting TOs and for me that don't cut it. Be a top D and lead the league.

Supposedly Klein fits the zone block scheme. Will he be back to form? Who knows. This isn't a kid and he also could be done. His size is Height: 6-3 Weight: 300 Age: 29, He's a smaller player, which I can't stand, but he fits the size Kub wants.
Yes, but the best way to win the turnover battle is not to turn the ball over. Teams have far more control of turnovers on offense than they do on defense. Control the clock, play with the lead, take care of the ball, the defense will play better and likely get more turnovers.
Not sure about that. You control TOs on both sides. Next time we play the Bears and they open the game on offense and try to pound the rock on us hit the RB hard and knock the ball out. Swarm him. Don't let the guy poke long runs through you. and not get touched until he's way beyond the LOS. You won't get many TOs that way. Force them. That has zero to do with the offense.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:38 am

CharVike wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:55 am
fiestavike wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:39 pm


Yes, but the best way to win the turnover battle is not to turn the ball over. Teams have far more control of turnovers on offense than they do on defense. Control the clock, play with the lead, take care of the ball, the defense will play better and likely get more turnovers.
Not sure about that. You control TOs on both sides. Next time we play the Bears and they open the game on offense and try to pound the rock on us hit the RB hard and knock the ball out. Swarm him. Don't let the guy poke long runs through you. and not get touched until he's way beyond the LOS. You won't get many TOs that way. Force them. That has zero to do with the offense.
Someone should tell Zimmer this great strategy for getting turnovers.

Just take the ball away from the runner Zim. That is all you have to do to cause more fumbles.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:44 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:38 am
CharVike wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:55 am

Not sure about that. You control TOs on both sides. Next time we play the Bears and they open the game on offense and try to pound the rock on us hit the RB hard and knock the ball out. Swarm him. Don't let the guy poke long runs through you. and not get touched until he's way beyond the LOS. You won't get many TOs that way. Force them. That has zero to do with the offense.
Someone should tell Zimmer this great strategy for getting turnovers.

Just take the ball away from the runner Zim. That is all you have to do to cause more fumbles.
That was my quote OK. Hit him hard. That's what you missed. You need to knock it out. A big hit or a swipe punch. Play some ball. Zimm don't do that. His scheme is the bend but don't break. That has proven not to work against the good teams. Your D needs to get after those teams. He let Brady score whenever he felt like it. Brady could have put up 40 easily but coasted to save Zim embarrassment. Zero pressure that won't work. Don't let him have that free ride. Chase him he can't move. Football is an aggressive game so be aggressive. Don't bend.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by PacificNorseWest » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:11 am

I like what the Bears are doing and I hate it...I feel that Trubisky isn't the guy though, at least not right now. This is Minnesota's season, with this current team. Window is done after this. They will need to get substantially younger on defense, especially.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:38 am

PacificNorseWest wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:11 am
I like what the Bears are doing and I hate it...I feel that Trubisky isn't the guy though, at least not right now. This is Minnesota's season, with this current team. Window is done after this. They will need to get substantially younger on defense, especially.
I felt Trubisky wasn't the guy either until I looked up his stats. I know stats aren't everything, but the kid did better than I thought and was surprised. I was labeling him as just so so. He's a young guy and could go up which is scary for me. The Bears also play D the way I like to see it. They create TOs. I also agree with the window closing. Last year Griff and Rhodes didn't do a thing. That's two very good players. But they aren't kids anymore. Are they done? Can they get there stuff back? It could go either way if it goes south that's big trouble for us. I do like Jaleel Johnson DT and I'm hoping he can push for the starting spot. That would be a great lift for us.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:29 pm

Raptorman wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:04 pm
You can sit there and discuss QB's and offense's all day long. And yes, they can and do make a difference in the game. But it is a team game. Period. Historically it goes like this.

Code: Select all

PPG given up.   Chance of winning.

19 or less.     85%
20 to 24.       60%
25 or more.     25% 

Now, I have run these numbers on both QB's and teams. And it doesn't make a difference. I'm not saying QB's don't matter, I'm saying they have to look at as a member of the "team". Very few QB's can win games by themselves And no one can do it all the time. A couple of games a year at most. Can they elevate team play? Yes, but if the defense doesn't do its part what you get is wins in the regular season and then losses in the playoffs. The greatest example of this is Peyton Manning. The Colts very seldom had a top 10 defense, but almost always had top 5 offense.

I am a firm believer that had Manning been playing in NE, the Patriots would have 12 Super Bowls in the last 20 years instead of 5. Manning won more games with poorer defense than any other QB. Marino comes close.
I agree 100%. I personally think manning was the best QB to ever play the game. I take him over Brady any day of the week. Manning’s defenses usually weren’t very good which is sad they couldn’t somehow figure that out
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