Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

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CharVike
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:31 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:16 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:29 am


Not only because of Kirk, but his poor play was a big part of those losses.
The Bears had the best D in the NFL last year. Maybe Kirk didn't play poorly, but the Bears played well.
You may not be aware of this, but they have highly skilled professional athletes on their team also. I'm out. No more replies to Stump on anything he has to say about Captain Kirk.
Good post. We lost as a team. The OL didn't block very well. Our great D don't play well when faced against the top teams. Here is a write I found.
In the end, the Rams were just too overwhelming a force for the Vikings to handle. There was barely any resistance as Los Angeles marched up and down the field with ease, averaging 10.1 yards per play against Mike Zimmer's defense. Jared Goff finished the evening 26 of 33 for 465 yards and five touchdowns

Averaged 10 yards a play. Gave up 5 TD passes. That team had too much for our D. They did what ever they wanted to. Cousins put up 31 on the road. But Cousins lost it. That is my problem with the D ranking as one of the best. Their not close. Yes they shut the Lions down twice sacking the QB a ton. Step up against Brady. Didn't even touch him. He never broke a sweat like a pre season game. Knock him around and prove your the best. Make him not want to throw. Again Cousins put up 29 on the road against GB, should have been over 30, and Cousins lost it. Buffalo don't let that joke move the ball. Again Cousins fault. Cousins has his problems all players do. He missed some throws I'm not doubting that. But our D needs to play some football against the better teams. Don't lay down and take the beating. Fight back. Show some pride.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:09 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:43 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:10 pm

So he was part of the solution. No disclaimers needed. I am soon going to consider you a troll. Constantly looking for negative $hit to annoy everybody.
I’m starting to get the same vibe
I myself haven't been taking part in this one , but I have had this same vibe for a while myself. I was in the same boat with Purple Koolaid, and just not gonna waste the time and energy arguing with someone who just wants to argue just to argue, and keeps beating the same dead horse. And his dead horse happens to wear a purple Jersey with #8 on it.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by fiestavike » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:41 am

Kirk sucked badly last year. There are many reasons for that. Many of those reasons have nothing to do with Kirk. Some of those reasons have a lot to do with Kirk. Hopefully Kirk will play better this year.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:29 am

fiestavike wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:41 am
Kirk sucked badly last year. There are many reasons for that. Many of those reasons have nothing to do with Kirk. Some of those reasons have a lot to do with Kirk. Hopefully Kirk will play better this year.
I want to make sure you meant what you wrote. Sucking is bad. However you said he sucked badly. To me that means he was far beyond simply sucking. It's more like you think he is the suck of all suck. Stats aren't everything, but they are significant. I don't see how having a winning record with 4300 yards passing, 70% completions, 30 TDs, and only 10 interceptions can be the suck of all suck.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by fiestavike » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:52 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:29 am
fiestavike wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:41 am
Kirk sucked badly last year. There are many reasons for that. Many of those reasons have nothing to do with Kirk. Some of those reasons have a lot to do with Kirk. Hopefully Kirk will play better this year.
I want to make sure you meant what you wrote. Sucking is bad. However you said he sucked badly. To me that means he was far beyond simply sucking. It's more like you think he is the suck of all suck. Stats aren't everything, but they are significant. I don't see how having a winning record with 4300 yards passing, 70% completions, 30 TDs, and only 10 interceptions can be the suck of all suck.
I'll amend it to say 'Kirk sucked last year'. We can remove 'badly' if you prefer. As for his yards etc, means nothing to me. He was a poor QB last year. Not the worst by any means.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:28 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:52 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:29 am

I want to make sure you meant what you wrote. Sucking is bad. However you said he sucked badly. To me that means he was far beyond simply sucking. It's more like you think he is the suck of all suck. Stats aren't everything, but they are significant. I don't see how having a winning record with 4300 yards passing, 70% completions, 30 TDs, and only 10 interceptions can be the suck of all suck.
I'll amend it to say 'Kirk sucked last year'. We can remove 'badly' if you prefer. As for his yards etc, means nothing to me. He was a poor QB last year. Not the worst by any means.
Yeah I thought it would be pretty much impossible to support he sucked badly. However, I don't even agree with sucking or playing average. I think he played quite well considering he had the pass rusher in his face about the second he received the snap on half the plays. IMO the stats do mean something and they showed a QB that played well.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Raptorman » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:31 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:41 am
Kirk sucked badly last year. There are many reasons for that. Many of those reasons have nothing to do with Kirk. Some of those reasons have a lot to do with Kirk. Hopefully Kirk will play better this year.
Please explain what "sucked badly". Easy to say, what backs up your claim?
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:33 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:52 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:29 am

I want to make sure you meant what you wrote. Sucking is bad. However you said he sucked badly. To me that means he was far beyond simply sucking. It's more like you think he is the suck of all suck. Stats aren't everything, but they are significant. I don't see how having a winning record with 4300 yards passing, 70% completions, 30 TDs, and only 10 interceptions can be the suck of all suck.
I'll amend it to say 'Kirk sucked last year'. We can remove 'badly' if you prefer. As for his yards etc, means nothing to me. He was a poor QB last year. Not the worst by any means.
Basically a Jameis Winston clone in your thought process. OK got it. Your another one who blames every loss on Cousins. To start off re-watch the 1st Packer game. Yea he lost it. Or the Ram game. Yea another he lost had nothing to do with the D giving up and not even trying. I could go on but I'm not.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by StumpHunter » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:39 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:28 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:52 pm


I'll amend it to say 'Kirk sucked last year'. We can remove 'badly' if you prefer. As for his yards etc, means nothing to me. He was a poor QB last year. Not the worst by any means.
Yeah I thought it would be pretty much impossible to support he sucked badly. However, I don't even agree with sucking or playing average. I think he played quite well considering he had the pass rusher in his face about the second he received the snap on half the plays. IMO the stats do mean something and they showed a QB that played well.
The stats said he had an above average time to throw and rarely got sacked.

The stats said the offense was 22nd in scoring and that the QB turned the ball over like he was a rookie.

With an 8 in 7 record, which stats mattered the most? The passing yards or the ineffective QB play?
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by StumpHunter » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:54 pm

Bowhunting Viking wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:09 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:43 am


I’m starting to get the same vibe
I myself haven't been taking part in this one , but I have had this same vibe for a while myself. I was in the same boat with Purple Koolaid, and just not gonna waste the time and energy arguing with someone who just wants to argue just to argue, and keeps beating the same dead horse. And his dead horse happens to wear a purple Jersey with #8 on it.
I am not the one calling people a liar and a troll because I disagree with their take. It is fine if you don't like my opinions, but that doesn't make me a troll.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Raptorman » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:09 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:39 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:28 pm

Yeah I thought it would be pretty much impossible to support he sucked badly. However, I don't even agree with sucking or playing average. I think he played quite well considering he had the pass rusher in his face about the second he received the snap on half the plays. IMO the stats do mean something and they showed a QB that played well.
The stats said he had an above average time to throw and rarely got sacked.

The stats said the offense was 22nd in scoring and that the QB turned the ball over like he was a rookie.

With an 8 in 7 record, which stats mattered the most? The passing yards or the ineffective QB play?
QB's who had more Int and Fumbles than Cousins last year.

Case Keenum
Jared Goff
Josh Rosen
Ben Roethlisberger
Derek Carr
Andrew Luck
Baker Mayfield
Jameis Winston
Patrick Mahomes
Dak Prescott
Josh Allen
Sam Darnold
Blake Bortles
Cam Newton

The following list is those that were within 5 turnovers of Cousins.

Deshaun Watson
Eli Manning
Mitchell Trubisky
Marcus Mariota
Matt Ryan
Matthew Stafford
Russell Wilson
Carson Wentz
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Lamar Jackson
Tom Brady
Philip Rivers
Ryan Tannehill
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:43 am

Raptorman wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:09 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:39 pm

The stats said he had an above average time to throw and rarely got sacked.

The stats said the offense was 22nd in scoring and that the QB turned the ball over like he was a rookie.

With an 8 in 7 record, which stats mattered the most? The passing yards or the ineffective QB play?
QB's who had more Int and Fumbles than Cousins last year.

Case Keenum
Jared Goff
Josh Rosen
Ben Roethlisberger
Derek Carr
Andrew Luck
Baker Mayfield
Jameis Winston
Patrick Mahomes
Dak Prescott
Josh Allen
Sam Darnold
Blake Bortles
Cam Newton

The following list is those that were within 5 turnovers of Cousins.

Deshaun Watson
Eli Manning
Mitchell Trubisky
Marcus Mariota
Matt Ryan
Matthew Stafford
Russell Wilson
Carson Wentz
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Lamar Jackson
Tom Brady
Philip Rivers
Ryan Tannehill
Within 5 you say? That is quite the standard deviation you have there on a number as small as 17. LOL.

This might be my new favorite post.

He had the same number of turnovers as Darnold and Mayfield. Rosen was worse at 19 versus 17. "Turned the ball over like a rookie" seems like an accurate statement to me.

If you want to make the sample larger, he has the 6th most in the NFL since 2015 when he took over as a full time starter. Big Ben has the most, so it isn't as if you can't throw a lot of picks or fumble the ball away a ton and still not be a winning QB, but Big Ben has been able to get away with it because when he is on, he is unstoppable, and he tends to be more on than off after throwing a bad pick.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Raptorman » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:13 am

Let's do this instead. Turnovers by QB in 2018. Interceptions and fumbles. Not Fumbles given up, just fumbles. 8 QB had more Fumbles than Cousins, he just lost the most. That is mostly just bad luck, nothing else. BTW, how many rookies on the list?

Code: Select all

Case Keenum	26
Jared Goff	24
Josh Rosen	24
Ben Roethl	23
Derek Carr	22
Andrew Luck	21
B. Mayfield	21
J. Winston	21
P. Mahomes	21
Dak Prescott	20
Josh Allen	20
Sam Darnold	20
Blake Bortles	19
Cam Newton	19
Kirk Cousins	19
D. Watson	18
Eli Manning	18
M. Trubisky	18
M. Mariota	17
Matt Ryan	17
M. Stafford	17
R. Wilson 	17
Carson Wentz	16
R. Fitzpatrick	16
L. Jackson	15
Tom Brady	15
Philip Rivers	14
R.Tannehill	14
Andy Dalton	12
C.J. Beathard	12
Nick Mullens	12
Alex Smith	11
Drew Brees	10
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:52 am

Raptorman wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:13 am
Let's do this instead. Turnovers by QB in 2018. Interceptions and fumbles. Not Fumbles given up, just fumbles. 8 QB had more Fumbles than Cousins, he just lost the most. That is mostly just bad luck, nothing else. BTW, how many rookies on the list?

Code: Select all

Case Keenum	26
Jared Goff	24
Josh Rosen	24
Ben Roethl	23
Derek Carr	22
Andrew Luck	21
B. Mayfield	21
J. Winston	21
P. Mahomes	21
Dak Prescott	20
Josh Allen	20
Sam Darnold	20
Blake Bortles	19
Cam Newton	19
Kirk Cousins	19
D. Watson	18
Eli Manning	18
M. Trubisky	18
M. Mariota	17
Matt Ryan	17
M. Stafford	17
R. Wilson 	17
Carson Wentz	16
R. Fitzpatrick	16
L. Jackson	15
Tom Brady	15
Philip Rivers	14
R.Tannehill	14
Andy Dalton	12
C.J. Beathard	12
Nick Mullens	12
Alex Smith	11
Drew Brees	10
Not all fumbles are turnovers or even necessarily had a chance at being recovered by the other team.

You can't just redefine the term turnover because you don't like what it says about your favorite QB.

Cousins turns the ball over a lot. 6th most since he became a starter.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:36 pm

Raptorman wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:09 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:39 pm

The stats said he had an above average time to throw and rarely got sacked.

The stats said the offense was 22nd in scoring and that the QB turned the ball over like he was a rookie.

With an 8 in 7 record, which stats mattered the most? The passing yards or the ineffective QB play?
QB's who had more Int and Fumbles than Cousins last year.

Case Keenum
Jared Goff
Josh Rosen
Ben Roethlisberger
Derek Carr
Andrew Luck
Baker Mayfield
Jameis Winston
Patrick Mahomes
Dak Prescott
Josh Allen
Sam Darnold
Blake Bortles
Cam Newton

The following list is those that were within 5 turnovers of Cousins.

Deshaun Watson
Eli Manning
Mitchell Trubisky
Marcus Mariota
Matt Ryan
Matthew Stafford
Russell Wilson
Carson Wentz
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Lamar Jackson
Tom Brady
Philip Rivers
Ryan Tannehill
Raptor I even posted in depth stats on every QBs fumble rate throughout the league and Cousins sat right in the middle and he still argues it. Saying that he fumbles in different ways than other QBs do and so on. I said him losing more fumbles was simply bad luck because he didnt have any history of losing that many fumbles in one season.

He sits there and says Cousins is horrible at protecting the football when he fumbled 9 times in 16 games but defends Lamar Jackson when he fumbled 10 times and threw a whopping 6 tds in 7 games starting. But “just because he made the playoffs” (where he happened to fumble 3 times) that’s why he was worth it. No less Lamar Jackson went 6-1 as a starter but beat 1 team with a winning record (where he did next to nothing and it was a game that was won on defense). He doesn’t know which direction to go at this point other than trying to find every avenue to say signing Cousins was a mistake. It’s to the point where he is contradicting himself now
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