Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

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VikingsVictorious
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Bowhunting Viking wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 4:55 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 11:54 pm
I'm very glad we got Cousins. He is a fine NFL QB. Give him some blocking this year and see what happens. Why the name PurpleKoolaid? Is that accusatory of other posters or is it meant as a comment about yourself?
Dont sweat it Vikings Victorious. Been down this road with Kool aid before.
First off I've never ever flew the Cousins flag so no idea why he directed that at me personally like that. As a matter of fact when we signed Cousins I posted the fact that I personally know Cousins starting Center when he played for Skins. He is from my hometown, played at our, his older brother is one of my bosses, he is now retired and I've watched games at his house. He told me when we signed Cousins he is a great guy, great leader a very good QB BUT he will break my heart when it matters most. So far he was right. But I'm still optimistic that with the right weapons around him, the right scheme and more familiarity with the offense and teammates maybe he will succeed for us.
In another post Purple Kool Aid compared Speilman to shopping at Wal Mart for lineman. I made an obviously post dripping with sarcasm about my friends son who is a special needs young man, who KNOWS his NFL, sarcastically.. again OBVIOUS sarcasm agreeing that the kid prob would do a better job at filling the line needs.
He posted back basically saying he didnt give a rat's a## about some kid who worked at Wal Mart.
I'm a member of this forum and 2 bowhunting forums. I realize that every forum has at least a few guys who are gonna be confrontational and argumentative and downright rude.
Like they say anyone can sit behind a computer and be that way. So it's best to tune them out.
Up until a few years ago I was still in brawler mode and would throw down with anyone and actually offered to drive 3 hrs and have a face to face "discussion " with a guy who was like that on a bowhunting forum. He sudden went silent lol.
So ya know it's best just ri realize that some posters are gonna be that way no matter what.
Just take it with a grain of salt and consider the source.
Enjoy the guys on here who are fun to post with and bring positivity and good discussion to the board. It's more enjoyable that way.
Tune out the negative guys who only wanna bash others and stir up crap. Not worth getting wound up about.
Thanks. I'm hopeful of having good discussion with Kool-Aid, but he does seem to want to take the negative viewpoint even when there is no good reason to. I've seen plenty of Cousins and what I've seen is strongly positive. The idea that every time a team loses it must mean the QB played bad IMO is ridiculous. Teams win and lose games. A QB is just a part of the whole. I've always felt that offensive line play is paramount to success. I'm excited about this season with the hopeful improvement of our line. Time will tell if we have it somewhat fixed or not.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by CharVike »

PurpleKoolaid wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 4:44 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 11:54 pm
I'm very glad we got Cousins. He is a fine NFL QB. Give him some blocking this year and see what happens. Why the name PurpleKoolaid? Is that accusatory of other posters or is it meant as a comment about yourself?
Yeah Cousins is AWESOME. Just look at his record of playing good teams, teams with winning records. He is Mr. clutch. Hes done so many great things in WAS and now in MN!!!
Look at any teams record when playing good teams. The Rams last year beat us because Cousins only put up 31 points. Bad game by him and we couldn't score. Mr clutch lost that one for us. The Skins upgraded to Smith and against the Saints they got blown out. Saints scored twice as many points. That was a smart upgrade. Great job Smith. Put up a ton of points and was beat. Not your fault because the Skins have a great team and Cousins held them back. That great Skins team can't beat a good team with one of the awesome QBs in the NFL. Mr Clutch drove us in position to beat Rodgers at Lambo and then Mr Clutch lost the game for us with his terrible play. Your right two games I found that Mr Clutch lost for us. We should just cut him now. If Smith can ever play again we should get him. He played behind the best OL in the NFL and was broken. Cousins played behind a top notch OL and was never hit and that's why he made it through the season. Thanks for helping me understand the thought process of yours.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 9:43 am
PurpleKoolaid wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 4:44 am

Yeah Cousins is AWESOME. Just look at his record of playing good teams, teams with winning records. He is Mr. clutch. Hes done so many great things in WAS and now in MN!!!
Look at any teams record when playing good teams. The Rams last year beat us because Cousins only put up 31 points. Bad game by him and we couldn't score. Mr clutch lost that one for us. The Skins upgraded to Smith and against the Saints they got blown out. Saints scored twice as many points. That was a smart upgrade. Great job Smith. Put up a ton of points and was beat. Not your fault because the Skins have a great team and Cousins held them back. That great Skins team can't beat a good team with one of the awesome QBs in the NFL. Mr Clutch drove us in position to beat Rodgers at Lambo and then Mr Clutch lost the game for us with his terrible play. Your right two games I found that Mr Clutch lost for us. We should just cut him now. If Smith can ever play again we should get him. He played behind the best OL in the NFL and was broken. Cousins played behind a top notch OL and was never hit and that's why he made it through the season. Thanks for helping me understand the thought process of yours.
The Skins won just as many games with Smith/Mccoy/random QBs off the street as they did with Cousins.

Here are some facts: The offense was 22nd in scoring efficiency, converting on third downs through the air was awful, and scoring TDs in the red zone they were 21st. Mr Clutch was responsible for a little of that for sure, right?

Here is another fun clutch stat. When down a score in the 4th quarter, Mr Clutch had a 56.4 passer rating. So, while the losses to the Rams and the tie to the Packers (where he threw a pick that should have ended the game) were not on him, those games were the exception though, not the norm.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 11:54 pm
I'm very glad we got Cousins. He is a fine NFL QB. Give him some blocking this year and see what happens. Why the name PurpleKoolaid? Is that accusatory of other posters or is it meant as a comment about yourself?
Agreed with Bowhunting. You're wasting your time here man. Those posts above are trolling and sarcasm at it's finest by him. You're better off not even acknowledging him or even adding him to the "foe" list in your settings. Trust me, it makes it much more enjoyable on here when you tune it out.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 10:08 am

The Skins won just as many games with Smith/Mccoy/random QBs off the street as they did with Cousins.

:lol: Someone tried to use this argument a few months ago. It very well could have been you. After Alex Smith went down, the Redskins (with all those random QBs off the street and McCoy) went 1-6 and missed the playoffs. The only team they beat was Jacksonville....who was also terrible. So finding a simple record argument comparing the Vikings to the Redskins and who played who and who the QB was and so on carries ZERO weight. Alex Smith started out 6-3 and they went 1-6 after that. So why bring up Colt McCoy or the "random QBs off the street"? Different teams, different years, different schedules, different situations. The Redskins opponent road record last year was 59-69. Our road opponent record was 71-56-1. Thats a huge difference. Point is, saying "yeah these guys won almost as many games this year as Kirk did in previous years" just isnt a realistic argument. That's like me saying, "Smith/Mccoy/random QBs off the street won more games than Aaron Rodgers did this year so Rodgers isnt that good". That's how unrealistic that argument is. You're basing your opinion off of a record. Not something you should rely on.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 10:08 am
CharVike wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 9:43 am
Look at any teams record when playing good teams. The Rams last year beat us because Cousins only put up 31 points. Bad game by him and we couldn't score. Mr clutch lost that one for us. The Skins upgraded to Smith and against the Saints they got blown out. Saints scored twice as many points. That was a smart upgrade. Great job Smith. Put up a ton of points and was beat. Not your fault because the Skins have a great team and Cousins held them back. That great Skins team can't beat a good team with one of the awesome QBs in the NFL. Mr Clutch drove us in position to beat Rodgers at Lambo and then Mr Clutch lost the game for us with his terrible play. Your right two games I found that Mr Clutch lost for us. We should just cut him now. If Smith can ever play again we should get him. He played behind the best OL in the NFL and was broken. Cousins played behind a top notch OL and was never hit and that's why he made it through the season. Thanks for helping me understand the thought process of yours.
The Skins won just as many games with Smith/Mccoy/random QBs off the street as they did with Cousins.

Here are some facts: The offense was 22nd in scoring efficiency, converting on third downs through the air was awful, and scoring TDs in the red zone they were 21st. Mr Clutch was responsible for a little of that for sure, right?

Here is another fun clutch stat. When down a score in the 4th quarter, Mr Clutch had a 56.4 passer rating. So, while the losses to the Rams and the tie to the Packers (where he threw a pick that should have ended the game) were not on him, those games were the exception though, not the norm.
I thought we fired the OC? That guy didn't even try to run the ball even tough we ran the ball well and have a very good back. Help for the passing game. That's easy to see. Perhaps his passing scheme created some problems also That's hard for the average fan to see. But it was all on Mr Clutch. Now we are at the point of beyond stupidity using a two headed monster as OC. We have one that isn't qualified for the job and another who is looking for...... I don't know. Money I guess. I would assume they will try and merge these two different philosophies together. Or use the younger guys scheme or wait use the older guys scheme. I'm getting confused myself trying to figure out what will be done. I'm sure all our QBs and the rest of the O is confused also. This is a classic circle jerk but I'm sure you feel it's the best thing to do. For Cousins or any of our QBs who do they turn to. Who is the point man. Or is it a group decision. A think tank. There isn't time for that BS. It's quick paced. Mr Clutch gets the blame for this cluster I'm sure. How many QBs would like a multiple headed OC without a point man. Please provide your thoughts on this.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by StumpHunter »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 11:29 am
StumpHunter wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 10:08 am

The Skins won just as many games with Smith/Mccoy/random QBs off the street as they did with Cousins.

:lol: Someone tried to use this argument a few months ago. It very well could have been you. After Alex Smith went down, the Redskins (with all those random QBs off the street and McCoy) went 1-6 and missed the playoffs. The only team they beat was Jacksonville....who was also terrible. So finding a simple record argument comparing the Vikings to the Redskins and who played who and who the QB was and so on carries ZERO weight. Alex Smith started out 6-3 and they went 1-6 after that. So why bring up Colt McCoy or the "random QBs off the street"? Different teams, different years, different schedules, different situations. The Redskins opponent road record last year was 59-69. Our road opponent record was 71-56-1. Thats a huge difference. Point is, saying "yeah these guys won almost as many games this year as Kirk did in previous years" just isnt a realistic argument. That's like me saying, "Smith/Mccoy/random QBs off the street won more games than Aaron Rodgers did this year so Rodgers isnt that good". That's how unrealistic that argument is. You're basing your opinion off of a record. Not something you should rely on.
It was me, and it was just as true then as it was now. With Smith, the Redskin were a better team than they were with Cousins. This, despite going from 20th best scoring defense to the 25th. With the random guys from the street they were worse, but that isn't the point anyone ever tried to make. It is the point you wish I had made, but that would just be a silly take, wouldn't it? My point was/is/always has been that the guy who was never good enough in KC to win it all and who most agree is your prototypical game manager QB, was a better option than Cousins for the REDSKINS. Not the Packers, the Redskins. The team those QBs both played on Smith won almost as many games in 9 games as Cousins did in 16 and 9 games + 7 with garbage at QB had the Redskins with the exact same record.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 12:08 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 10:08 am

The Skins won just as many games with Smith/Mccoy/random QBs off the street as they did with Cousins.

Here are some facts: The offense was 22nd in scoring efficiency, converting on third downs through the air was awful, and scoring TDs in the red zone they were 21st. Mr Clutch was responsible for a little of that for sure, right?

Here is another fun clutch stat. When down a score in the 4th quarter, Mr Clutch had a 56.4 passer rating. So, while the losses to the Rams and the tie to the Packers (where he threw a pick that should have ended the game) were not on him, those games were the exception though, not the norm.
I thought we fired the OC? That guy didn't even try to run the ball even tough we ran the ball well and have a very good back. Help for the passing game. That's easy to see. Perhaps his passing scheme created some problems also That's hard for the average fan to see. But it was all on Mr Clutch. Now we are at the point of beyond stupidity using a two headed monster as OC. We have one that isn't qualified for the job and another who is looking for...... I don't know. Money I guess. I would assume they will try and merge these two different philosophies together. Or use the younger guys scheme or wait use the older guys scheme. I'm getting confused myself trying to figure out what will be done. I'm sure all our QBs and the rest of the O is confused also. This is a classic circle jerk but I'm sure you feel it's the best thing to do. For Cousins or any of our QBs who do they turn to. Who is the point man. Or is it a group decision. A think tank. There isn't time for that BS. It's quick paced. Mr Clutch gets the blame for this cluster I'm sure. How many QBs would like a multiple headed OC without a point man. Please provide your thoughts on this.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Could you try again please?
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 12:09 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 11:29 am

:lol: Someone tried to use this argument a few months ago. It very well could have been you. After Alex Smith went down, the Redskins (with all those random QBs off the street and McCoy) went 1-6 and missed the playoffs. The only team they beat was Jacksonville....who was also terrible. So finding a simple record argument comparing the Vikings to the Redskins and who played who and who the QB was and so on carries ZERO weight. Alex Smith started out 6-3 and they went 1-6 after that. So why bring up Colt McCoy or the "random QBs off the street"? Different teams, different years, different schedules, different situations. The Redskins opponent road record last year was 59-69. Our road opponent record was 71-56-1. Thats a huge difference. Point is, saying "yeah these guys won almost as many games this year as Kirk did in previous years" just isnt a realistic argument. That's like me saying, "Smith/Mccoy/random QBs off the street won more games than Aaron Rodgers did this year so Rodgers isnt that good". That's how unrealistic that argument is. You're basing your opinion off of a record. Not something you should rely on.
It was me, and it was just as true then as it was now. With Smith, the Redskin were a better team than they were with Cousins. This, despite going from 20th best scoring defense to the 25th. With the random guys from the street they were worse, but that isn't the point anyone ever tried to make. It is the point you wish I had made, but that would just be a silly take, wouldn't it? My point was/is/always has been that the guy who was never good enough in KC to win it all and who most agree is your prototypical game manager QB, was a better option than Cousins for the REDSKINS. Not the Packers, the Redskins. The team those QBs both played on Smith won almost as many games in 9 games as Cousins did in 16 and 9 games + 7 with garbage at QB had the Redskins with the exact same record.
lol come on. That's exactly the point you were trying to make. Like I said, why else bring up those QBs if the Redskins were worse with them? Why bring them up if they went 1-6 with them? There was no reason for it. You twisted your wording around to try and help your argument and try to show that in your eyes Cousins just isnt a good QB. And keep saying the "Redskins" all you want. The Redskins were still a different team with a different schedule and different situations that occurred. It's a poor comparison.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by Bowhunting Viking »

Kendrick's contract has been re-worked to allow cap space to sign Bradbury according to PFT. Didn't give the details of the restructure specifics.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by StumpHunter »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 1:08 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 12:09 pm
It was me, and it was just as true then as it was now. With Smith, the Redskin were a better team than they were with Cousins. This, despite going from 20th best scoring defense to the 25th. With the random guys from the street they were worse, but that isn't the point anyone ever tried to make. It is the point you wish I had made, but that would just be a silly take, wouldn't it? My point was/is/always has been that the guy who was never good enough in KC to win it all and who most agree is your prototypical game manager QB, was a better option than Cousins for the REDSKINS. Not the Packers, the Redskins. The team those QBs both played on Smith won almost as many games in 9 games as Cousins did in 16 and 9 games + 7 with garbage at QB had the Redskins with the exact same record.
lol come on. That's exactly the point you were trying to make. Like I said, why else bring up those QBs if the Redskins were worse with them? Why bring them up if they went 1-6 with them? There was no reason for it. You twisted your wording around to try and help your argument and try to show that in your eyes Cousins just isnt a good QB. And keep saying the "Redskins" all you want. The Redskins were still a different team with a different schedule and different situations that occurred. It's a poor comparison.
You really think my point was that Kirk Cousins is just as good as Josh Johnson? I guess in some people's minds you are either completely on board with Kirk Cousins or you must think he is a borderline practice squad QB. Nothing in-between is allowed.

I am pretty sure the Redskins were the Redskins in 2017 and in 2018. There were changes of course, the biggest change being at QB. Just like our biggest change was at QB.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

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Bowhunting Viking wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 2:10 pm Kendrick's contract has been re-worked to allow cap space to sign Bradbury according to PFT. Didn't give the details of the restructure specifics.
Converted some salary to signing bonus and spread the cap hit further down the line most likely.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 2:23 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 1:08 pm

lol come on. That's exactly the point you were trying to make. Like I said, why else bring up those QBs if the Redskins were worse with them? Why bring them up if they went 1-6 with them? There was no reason for it. You twisted your wording around to try and help your argument and try to show that in your eyes Cousins just isnt a good QB. And keep saying the "Redskins" all you want. The Redskins were still a different team with a different schedule and different situations that occurred. It's a poor comparison.
You really think my point was that Kirk Cousins is just as good as Josh Johnson? I guess in some people's minds you are either completely on board with Kirk Cousins or you must think he is a borderline practice squad QB. Nothing in-between is allowed.

I am pretty sure the Redskins were the Redskins in 2017 and in 2018. There were changes of course, the biggest change being at QB. Just like our biggest change was at QB.
I dont follow the Redskins through and through but there were plenty of changes there. No less they are arguably one of the most dysfunctional organizations in the NFL. You're saying our biggest change was at QB and I disagree. OC was our biggest change by far. You went from a legit OC in Shurmur to an absolute dud in Flip. Someone that didnt know how to implement balance into an offense. You think the "Redskins in 2017 were the Redskins in 2018"? I hope you're joking. Were the Vikings the Vikings in 2017 and 2018? Not even close and not just because of the QB.

Lets see:
-We hired a new OC which was a massive downgrade
-Our OL coach passed away
-We changed QBs
-Our OL was considerably worse compared to 2017
-Our defense took a step back
-Everson Griffen went AWOL
-We refused to run the football
-Our OC was fired
-Our road schedule was arguably the toughest in the NFL, our schedule was a joke in 2017
....and so on.

You think the "Redskins were just the Redskins"? When we alone had that much go on in one season? Like I said, looking at the situation on the surface and just saying "yeah the QB change was big and see they nearly had the same record" is such a bogus/ flawed way to draw a comparison. It carries ZERO weight. Different teams, different seasons, different players, different schedules, etc. I'm not arguing with you just to argue. You made a poor comparison. Someone on the San Jose St. chess team that's never watched football before could compare records and say the Redskins won almost as many games as Kirk did when he was there so Smith must be better or just as good. It proves nothing and there is zero validity to it. Period.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 12:08 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 10:08 am

The Skins won just as many games with Smith/Mccoy/random QBs off the street as they did with Cousins.

Here are some facts: The offense was 22nd in scoring efficiency, converting on third downs through the air was awful, and scoring TDs in the red zone they were 21st. Mr Clutch was responsible for a little of that for sure, right?

Here is another fun clutch stat. When down a score in the 4th quarter, Mr Clutch had a 56.4 passer rating. So, while the losses to the Rams and the tie to the Packers (where he threw a pick that should have ended the game) were not on him, those games were the exception though, not the norm.
I thought we fired the OC? That guy didn't even try to run the ball even tough we ran the ball well and have a very good back. Help for the passing game. That's easy to see. Perhaps his passing scheme created some problems also That's hard for the average fan to see. But it was all on Mr Clutch. Now we are at the point of beyond stupidity using a two headed monster as OC. We have one that isn't qualified for the job and another who is looking for...... I don't know. Money I guess. I would assume they will try and merge these two different philosophies together. Or use the younger guys scheme or wait use the older guys scheme. I'm getting confused myself trying to figure out what will be done. I'm sure all our QBs and the rest of the O is confused also. This is a classic circle jerk but I'm sure you feel it's the best thing to do. For Cousins or any of our QBs who do they turn to. Who is the point man. Or is it a group decision. A think tank. There isn't time for that BS. It's quick paced. Mr Clutch gets the blame for this cluster I'm sure. How many QBs would like a multiple headed OC without a point man. Please provide your thoughts on this.
I think Kubiak is the point man and Stefanski assists him.
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Re: Kyle Rudolph and Vikings break off contract talks

Post by StumpHunter »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 3:00 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 2:23 pm

You really think my point was that Kirk Cousins is just as good as Josh Johnson? I guess in some people's minds you are either completely on board with Kirk Cousins or you must think he is a borderline practice squad QB. Nothing in-between is allowed.

I am pretty sure the Redskins were the Redskins in 2017 and in 2018. There were changes of course, the biggest change being at QB. Just like our biggest change was at QB.
I dont follow the Redskins through and through but there were plenty of changes there. No less they are arguably one of the most dysfunctional organizations in the NFL. You're saying our biggest change was at QB and I disagree. OC was our biggest change by far. You went from a legit OC in Shurmur to an absolute dud in Flip. Someone that didnt know how to implement balance into an offense. You think the "Redskins in 2017 were the Redskins in 2018"? I hope you're joking. Were the Vikings the Vikings in 2017 and 2018? Not even close and not just because of the QB.

Lets see:
-We hired a new OC which was a massive downgrade
-Our OL coach passed away
-We changed QBs
-Our OL was considerably worse compared to 2017
-Our defense took a step back
-Everson Griffen went AWOL
-We refused to run the football
-Our OC was fired
-Our road schedule was arguably the toughest in the NFL, our schedule was a joke in 2017
....and so on.

You think the "Redskins were just the Redskins"? When we alone had that much go on in one season? Like I said, looking at the situation on the surface and just saying "yeah the QB change was big and see they nearly had the same record" is such a bogus/ flawed way to draw a comparison. It carries ZERO weight. Different teams, different seasons, different players, different schedules, etc. I'm not arguing with you just to argue. You made a poor comparison. Someone on the San Jose St. chess team that's never watched football before could compare records and say the Redskins won almost as many games as Kirk did when he was there so Smith must be better or just as good. It proves nothing and there is zero validity to it. Period.
Comparing the same team to the same team is a bad comparison? Gotcha. What was I thinking?


Based on your comments about Cousins not being the biggest change on offense, are you arguing he isn't an impact player? I mean, he was replacing a journeyman backup after all, and his addition didn't make all that big of difference, so I guess I can get behind that....
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